From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/79676 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Steve White Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: 'kern': TrueType table and GPOS lookup feature Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:34:13 +0100 Message-ID: References: <50B85B0E.1060703@web.de> <50B878C7.8080607@wxs.nl> <50B8D947.50003@wxs.nl> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0184093705==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1354300467 28612 80.91.229.3 (30 Nov 2012 18:34:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:34:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users To: Hans Hagen Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Fri Nov 30 19:34:39 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([195.12.62.10]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TeVQ6-0007SN-4a for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:34:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43B0C1034F; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:34:26 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id d0JvCoYluT-G; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:34:23 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C0310312; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:34:22 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2445910312 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:34:21 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id JemTM8ALEoLq for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:34:20 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from filter2-til.mf.surf.net (filter2-til.mf.surf.net [194.171.167.218]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A25010214 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:34:20 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mail-oa0-f41.google.com (mail-oa0-f41.google.com [209.85.219.41]) by filter2-til.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id qAUIYEYZ025494 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:34:18 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-oa0-f41.google.com with SMTP id k14so983083oag.14 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 10:34:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=DtqkYoxN2xkfy7UOuqg0/3t0uXcSadt32k7pwYwbYto=; b=S6W7BKLixWqjuyDNVYJBHc/wdGbZBM20kyYX4cfjukmQ7XOwsMfNzVOj5L8JRUkzm1 5gXG90NeUsouxF9fIQ/4a8+FJImn5kcjNc1kblQvebE3Iogr2KVOuxJqcP9nHpPPtYGg CAV8NUIOplJCqxmJrY9aGEVclB31xkSZt0Fq0eJWX3BYivovgr1iH4mguXxAurnzjZ1P bD49mYdAB9CqzWcaye130e4qMREBJM9B4f2wPy80E1EJZDXbLiouQenYP90hiRbV/ynw 7oYkmy84BABgBGjeXSeMbwHGOkMiBo4ov0T6ZyO6rR/hpDxkSOhQggaliHzAWjhcooY4 m0Iw== Original-Received: by 10.182.218.37 with SMTP id pd5mr1780157obc.24.1354300454011; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 10:34:14 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.60.78.162 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 10:34:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <50B8D947.50003@wxs.nl> X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=209.85.219.41; country=US; region=CA; city=Mountain View; postalcode=94043; latitude=37.4192; longitude=-122.0574; metrocode=807; areacode=650; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=37.4192,-122.0574&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0TItSyeSJ - e681a5eee428 - 20121130 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 194.171.167.218 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:79676 Archived-At: --===============0184093705== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04447dff7b037c04cfbaa503 --f46d04447dff7b037c04cfbaa503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Hans, Sorry about the accidental post I'm struggling with gmail's new input interface...very hard not to top-post. On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Steve White wrote: > Hi Hans, > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Hans Hagen wrote: > >> On 11/30/2012 10:58 AM, Steve White wrote: >> >> >> 3) In most applications, the script of a run of text is determined from >>> the Unicode. This is the assumption made in FreeFont. The GNU FreeFont >>> policy starts from its essence as a Unicode font, in which no particular >>> script is default. (Some generic features that are not specific to any >>> script, are in {dflt,dflt}.) >>> >>> There was a suggestion that Latin kerns should be activated by >>> {script,lang}={dflt,dflt}. Let me ask, should Devanagari kerns also be >>> activated by {dflt, dflt}? If not, why? >>> >> >> because one text can contain multiple scripts >> >> >> >> This is interesting. There are different notions of text here, depending on point of view. Certainly a sentence could contain a mixture of scripts. When I said "run of text" I meant it from the point of view of how font featues are applied to text. Usually it is a small chunk of text, with chunks separated by white space or other delimiters. In web browsers, etc, if a run of text is, say, from the Armenian Unicode range, the script is judged to be Armenian for the purposes of matching OpenType lookups. (The information of what *language* is meant by the text must be supplied otherwise, in this case, in a 'lang' attribute). Now, you could imgaine applying an OpenType lookup to, say, a Malayalam letter immediately followed by an Arabic letter, but this is .. I think... really pointless. Even in text containing very mixed scripts, at least the words from the different scripts are separated by white space (or other punctuation etc). So the mechanism of determining the "script" of a "run of text" does typically make good sense. That all said: It's not clear to me how this is implemented in ConTeXt. I'll play with it once I have some examples working. My guess is, the author has to explicitly indicate the script each run of text (by specifying the attributes of the font to apply to the run). --f46d04447dff7b037c04cfbaa503 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Hans,

Sorry about the accidental post

I'm struggling = with gmail's new input interface...very hard not to top-post.


On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 7:15= PM, Steve White <stevan.white@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Hans,

On Fri, Nov = 30, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
On 11/30/2012 10:58 AM, Steve White wrote:


3) In most applications, the script of a run of text is determined from
the Unicode. =A0This is the assumption made in FreeFont. =A0The GNU FreeFon= t
policy starts from its essence as a Unicode font, in which no particular script is default. (Some generic features that are not specific to any
script, are in {dflt,dflt}.)

There was a suggestion that Latin kerns should be activated by
{script,lang}=3D{dflt,dflt}. =A0Let me ask, should Devanagari kerns also be=
activated by {dflt, dflt}? =A0If not, why?

because one text can contain multiple scripts



This is interesting.

There are different notions = of text here, depending on point of view.

Certainly a sentence could= contain a mixture of scripts.

When I said "run of text" I= meant it from the point of view of how font featues are applied to text.= =A0 Usually it is a small chunk of text, with chunks separated by white spa= ce or other delimiters.=A0

In web browsers, etc, if a run of text is, say, from the Armenian Unico= de range, the script is judged to be Armenian for the purposes of matching = OpenType lookups.
(The information of what *language* is meant by the te= xt must be supplied otherwise, in this case, in a 'lang' attribute)= .

Now, you could imgaine applying an OpenType lookup to, say, a Malayalam= letter immediately followed by an Arabic letter, but this is .. I think...= really pointless.

Even in text containing very mixed scripts, at le= ast the words from the different scripts are separated by white space (or o= ther punctuation etc).

So the mechanism of determining the "script" of a "run o= f text" does typically make good sense.

That all said:

I= t's not clear to me how this is implemented in ConTeXt.=A0 I'll pla= y with it once I have some examples working.=A0 My guess is, the author has= to explicitly indicate the script each run of text (by specifying the attr= ibutes of the font to apply to the run).

--f46d04447dff7b037c04cfbaa503-- --===============0184093705== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============0184093705==--