A problem with autopunctuation

A problem with autopunctuation

[Marcin Borkowski]

If I get it correctly, the following two formulae should render
differently - and they don't.  What is going on?

\setupmathematics[autopunctuation=yes]

\starttext

$(2,5)$ versus $(2, 5)$

\stoptext

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Adam Mickiewicz University
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: A problem with autopunctuation

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 03.11.2012 um 01:45 schrieb Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>:

> If I get it correctly, the following two formulae should render
> differently - and they don't.  What is going on?
> 
> \setupmathematics[autopunctuation=yes]
> 
> \starttext
> 
> $(2,5)$ versus $(2, 5)$
> 
> \stoptext

Spaces in math mode are ignored because the spacing is controlled by different rules.

\starttext

\m{1.2}\par
\m{1. 2}\par
\m{1 .2}\par
\m{1 . 2}\par

\blank

\m{1,2}

\blank

\setupmathematics[autopunctuation=yes]\m{1,2}

\stoptext

Wolfgang
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Re: A problem with autopunctuation

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Sun, 4 Nov 2012, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

>
> Am 03.11.2012 um 01:45 schrieb Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>:
>
>> If I get it correctly, the following two formulae should render
>> differently - and they don't.  What is going on?
>>
>> \setupmathematics[autopunctuation=yes]
>>
>> \starttext
>>
>> $(2,5)$ versus $(2, 5)$
>>
>> \stoptext
>
> Spaces in math mode are ignored because the spacing is controlled by different rules.
>
> \starttext
>
> \m{1.2}\par
> \m{1. 2}\par
> \m{1 .2}\par
> \m{1 . 2}\par
>
> \blank
>
> \m{1,2}
>
> \blank
>
> \setupmathematics[autopunctuation=yes]\m{1,2}
>
> \stoptext

I always thought that autopunctuation was targetted towards the European 
tradition of using comma as a decimal separator. That behavior can be 
achieved by changing a comma to be an "ord" from a "punctuation". 
However, changing the comma to an "ord" has the drawback that you have to 
explicitly add spaces when comma is needed as a punctuation, for example 
in  sets:

    \m{A = \{a,\, b,\, c\}}

Autopunctuation is supposed to get around this: if comma is followed by a 
non-space, the comma should behave like an "ord"; if it is followed by a 
space, it should behave like a "punctuation". Clearly that is not 
happening.

Aditya
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Re: A problem with autopunctuation

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia 2012-11-04, o godz. 16:38:53
Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> napisał(a):

> On Sun, 4 Nov 2012, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
> >
> > Am 03.11.2012 um 01:45 schrieb Marcin Borkowski
> > <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>:
> >
> >> If I get it correctly, the following two formulae should render
> >> differently - and they don't.  What is going on?
> >>
> >> \setupmathematics[autopunctuation=yes]
> >>
> >> \starttext
> >>
> >> $(2,5)$ versus $(2, 5)$
> >>
> >> \stoptext
> >
> > Spaces in math mode are ignored because the spacing is controlled
> > by different rules.
> >
> > \starttext
> >
> > \m{1.2}\par
> > \m{1. 2}\par
> > \m{1 .2}\par
> > \m{1 . 2}\par
> >
> > \blank
> >
> > \m{1,2}
> >
> > \blank
> >
> > \setupmathematics[autopunctuation=yes]\m{1,2}
> >
> > \stoptext
> 
> I always thought that autopunctuation was targetted towards the
> European tradition of using comma as a decimal separator. That
> behavior can be achieved by changing a comma to be an "ord" from a
> "punctuation". However, changing the comma to an "ord" has the
> drawback that you have to explicitly add spaces when comma is needed
> as a punctuation, for example in  sets:
> 
>     \m{A = \{a,\, b,\, c\}}
> 
> Autopunctuation is supposed to get around this: if comma is followed
> by a non-space, the comma should behave like an "ord"; if it is
> followed by a space, it should behave like a "punctuation". Clearly
> that is not happening.

+1

This was exactly what I was expecting.  (In LaTeX, there's even a
package, called icomma AFAIR, which does more or less this.)  As I
often write mathematical texts in Polish, such a feature would be
*very* useful for me.  I could use \digits or \unit, but this has its
drawbacks, too.

> Aditya

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Adam Mickiewicz University
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Re: A problem with autopunctuation

[Sietse Brouwer]

Reviving this thread, because MkIV's default behaviour is still
improper. The current default of always adding a space after periods
*and* commas is expected by nobody, I think. Revival prompted by a
recent tex.se question:
http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/84911/number-kerning-in-context-math-mode-is-different-and-worse-than-normal/84947#84947

I've set out the behaviour below; A --> B means 'A displays as B'.
MkIV should probably follow either MkII, or the behavior Aditya and
Marcin proposed.
(Actually, even if we choose MkII behavior, it would be nice to have
the latter available, too. Maybe as an option autopunctuation=user? It
would require someone to hack respace[math_char] in math-noa.lua,
though.)
Cheers,
Sietse

== This is MkIV's behaviour ==

Spaces are ignored.

\setupmathematics[autopunctuation=no] (the default)
2,5 --> 2, 5
2.5 --> 2. 5

\setupmathematics[autopunctuation=yes]
2,5 --> 2,5
2.5 --> 2.5

Spaces are ignored.

== This is MkII's behaviour ==

Spaces are ignored.

Without \enablemathpunctuation (no \disablemathpunctuation):
% default TeX behaviour
2.5 or 2. 5 --> 2.5
2,5 --> 2, 5

\enablemathpunctuation:
2.5 --> 2.5
2,5 --> 2,5

== This would be really nice ==
See Aditya and Marcin's mails, further up this thread.
http://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/msg66306.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/msg66307.html

Spaces are significant.

\setupmathematics[autopunctuation=no]
% standard TeX behaviour
2,5 --> 2, 5
2, 5 --> 2, 5
2.5 --> 2.5
2. 5 --> 2.5

\setupmathematics[autopunctuation=yes]
% user controls spacing without needing to type 2,\, 5 all the time
% decimal-mark agnostic
% but especially when the decimal mark is a comma
2,5 --> 2,5
2, 5 --> 2, 5
2.5 --> 2.5
2. 5 --> 2. 5
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Re: A problem with autopunctuation

[Sietse Brouwer]

Forgot to add an MWE.

%% Mkiv code

\startTEXpage%
    \setupmathematics[autopunctuation=no]%
    $(2,5)$ versus $(2, 5)$ -- no
    \crlf
    $(2.5)$ versus $(2. 5)$ -- no

    \setupmathematics[autopunctuation=yes]%
    $(2,5)$ versus $(2, 5)$ -- yes
    \crlf
    $(2.5)$ versus $(2. 5)$ -- yes
\stopTEXpage

%% Mkii code

\startTEXpage%
    $(2,5)$ versus $(2, 5)$ -- no
    \crlf
    $(2.5)$ versus $(2. 5)$ -- no

    \enablemathpunctuation
    $(2,5)$ versus $(2, 5)$ -- yes
    \crlf
    $(2.5)$ versus $(2. 5)$ -- yes
\stopTEXpage
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Re: A problem with autopunctuation

[Sietse Brouwer]

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Hi, all,

Hans has done some work on autopunctuation which made it into
yesterday's beta (2012.12.03 11:33). This includes a 'set it like I
type it' mode people have been asking for.

There are now three options to \setupmathematics[autopunctuation=...]:
* autopunctuation=no — default TeX behaviour. Commas get a thin space,
periods get nothing.
* autopunctuation=yes — manual control for commas. Commas followed by
a space get a thin space; periods, and commas followed by something
else, do not.
* autopunctuation=all — like `yes`; and periods, too, get a thin space
unless suppressed

Example code below, example output attached, and the behaviour is documented at
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Command/setupmathematics

Cheers,
Sietse

\defineparagraphs[asdf][n=3]

\startTEXpage[offset=2mm]

\startasdf
\setupmathematics[autopunctuation=no]
autopunctuation=no

\starttabulate[||||]
\NC input  \NC desired \NC output  \NC \NR
\NC 2,5  \NC 2, 5 \NC $2,5$  \NC \NR
\NC 2, 5 \NC 2, 5 \NC $2, 5$ \NC \NR
\NC 2.5  \NC 2.5  \NC $2.5$  \NC \NR
\NC 2. 5 \NC 2.5  \NC $2. 5$ \NC \NR
\stoptabulate

\asdf
\setupmathematics[autopunctuation=yes]
autopunctuation=yes

\starttabulate[||||]
\NC input  \NC desired \NC output  \NC \NR
\NC 2,5  \NC 2,5  \NC $2,5$  \NC \NR
\NC 2, 5 \NC 2, 5 \NC $2, 5$ \NC \NR
\NC 2.5  \NC 2.5  \NC $2.5$  \NC \NR
\NC 2. 5 \NC 2.5  \NC $2.5$  \NC \NR
\stoptabulate

\asdf
\setupmathematics[autopunctuation=all]
autopunctuation=all

\starttabulate[||||]
\NC input  \NC desired \NC output  \NC \NR
\NC 2,5  \NC 2,5  \NC $2,5$  \NC \NR
\NC 2, 5 \NC 2, 5 \NC $2, 5$ \NC \NR
\NC 2.5  \NC 2.5  \NC $2.5$  \NC \NR
\NC 2. 5 \NC 2. 5 \NC $2. 5$ \NC \NR
\stoptabulate
\stopasdf

\stopTEXpage

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Re: A problem with autopunctuation

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia 2012-11-04, o godz. 11:04:52
Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster@gmail.com> napisał(a):

> 
> Am 03.11.2012 um 21:15 schrieb Marcin Borkowski
> <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>:
> 
> > Dnia 2012-11-03, o godz. 14:04:30
> > Andres Conrado <elandi@chiquitico.org> napisał(a):
> > 
> >> In dont't really know why you think it should render differently.
> >> Everything TeX is supposed to ignore white spaces in math, AFAIK.
> > 
> > Yep, but that's no TeX!  Take a look at math-ini.mkiv, lines 873nn.
> 
> And what do you think the example will tell us?
> 
> \starttext
> \enablemathpunctuation
> $(1,2) (1, 2) (1{,}2) \hbox{foo, not bar}$
> \stoptext
> 
> Wolfgang

Well, I *would* expect (1,2) to produce no space after the comma, and
(1, 2) to produce a thin space.  But I may be wrong; in any case, they
seem to do exactly the same, which doesn't make much sense to me.
Also, I wrote about this some time ago on TeX.SE
(http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/52524/autopunctuation-not-working-properly),
and Aditya suggested posting here - which I (finally) did.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Adam Mickiewicz University
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Re: A problem with autopunctuation

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 03.11.2012 um 21:15 schrieb Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>:

> Dnia 2012-11-03, o godz. 14:04:30
> Andres Conrado <elandi@chiquitico.org> napisał(a):
> 
>> In dont't really know why you think it should render differently.
>> Everything TeX is supposed to ignore white spaces in math, AFAIK.
> 
> Yep, but that's no TeX!  Take a look at math-ini.mkiv, lines 873nn.

And what do you think the example will tell us?

\starttext
\enablemathpunctuation
$(1,2) (1, 2) (1{,}2) \hbox{foo, not bar}$
\stoptext

Wolfgang
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Re: A problem with autopunctuation

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia 2012-11-03, o godz. 14:04:30
Andres Conrado <elandi@chiquitico.org> napisał(a):

> In dont't really know why you think it should render differently.
> Everything TeX is supposed to ignore white spaces in math, AFAIK.

Yep, but that's no TeX!  Take a look at math-ini.mkiv, lines 873nn.

> Best,
> 
> Andrés Conrado Montoya
> El Andi
> andresconrado@gmail.com
> http://chiquitico.org

Best,

-- 
Marcin
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Re: A problem with autopunctuation

[Andres Conrado]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 6714 bytes --]

In dont't really know why you think it should render differently.
Everything TeX is supposed to ignore white spaces in math, AFAIK.
If you want a space in math, you need to force it, like this:

\setupmathematics[autopunctuation=yes]

\starttext

$(2,\ 5)$ versus $(2,\ 5)$

\stoptext

Best,

Andrés Conrado Montoya
El Andi
andresconrado@gmail.com
http://chiquitico.org
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2012/11/3 <ntg-context-request@ntg.nl>

> Send ntg-context mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: RFC: path relative to current file. (Andre Caldas)
>    2. A problem with autopunctuation (Marcin Borkowski)
>    3. Re: Weird print("\n...") error (Peter M?nster)
>    4. Re: RFC: path relative to current file. (Sietse Brouwer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 22:35:29 -0200
> From: Andre Caldas <andre.em.caldas@gmail.com>
> To: Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>
> Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
> Subject: Re: [NTG-context] RFC: path relative to current file.
> Message-ID:
>         <CADVh14X0wb-2f7uRzb8Jo5jDE9n3ha0iyTLYBPB=vRf=
> DWNZiA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hello!
>
> >> It would be REALLY NICE if the functionality of "pathrelativetome" was
> >> provided by ConTeXt.
> >
> > in file-job.lua add around the function 'process':
> >
> > local function toppath()
> > [...]
> >
> >     \component toppath:/subpath/somefile.tex
>
> Works like a charm, Hans! Sorry I took so long to test...
> I copied file-job.lua from the GIT repository, and changed my tex
> files to use toppath:/path/to/file.
>
> For example:
>
> https://bitbucket.org/andrecaldas/math-video-classes/src/b743f22e4f567662ac55c1ac7dc1b6d13362e11d/src/products/assorted.tex?at=default
>
> Really nice! Thanks!! :-)
>
>
> Cheers,
> Andr? Caldas.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 01:45:45 +0100
> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>
> To: ConTeXt mailing list <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
> Subject: [NTG-context] A problem with autopunctuation
> Message-ID: <20121103014545.02b8dd5f@aga-netbook>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> If I get it correctly, the following two formulae should render
> differently - and they don't.  What is going on?
>
> \setupmathematics[autopunctuation=yes]
>
> \starttext
>
> $(2,5)$ versus $(2, 5)$
>
> \stoptext
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Marcin Borkowski
> http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
> Adam Mickiewicz University
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2012 08:47:33 +0100
> From: Peter M?nster <pmlists@free.fr>
> To: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
> Subject: Re: [NTG-context] Weird print("\n...") error
> Message-ID: <877gq33z6y.fsf@micropit.couberia.selfip.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Fri, Nov 02 2012, Proch?zka Luk?? wrote:
>
> >     print("\nT")
>
>       print("\n" .. "T")
>
>
> > Any explanation?
>
> \nT is an unknown command.
>
> --
>            Peter
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 11:13:35 +0100
> From: Sietse Brouwer <sbbrouwer@gmail.com>
> To: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
> Cc: Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>
> Subject: Re: [NTG-context] RFC: path relative to current file.
> Message-ID:
>         <CAF=
> dkzy9s5uuXfQv5QuQ1PyBTCGgLAM9RWk-RtD3iAxEkp6jJg@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Andreas wrote:
> >>> It would be REALLY NICE if the functionality of "pathrelativetome" was
> >>> provided by ConTeXt.
>
> Hans wrote:
> >> in file-job.lua add around the function 'process':
> >>
> >> local function toppath()
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>     \component toppath:/subpath/somefile.tex
>
> Andreas wrote:
> > Works like a charm, Hans! Sorry I took so long to test...
> > I copied file-job.lua from the GIT repository, and changed my tex
> > files to use toppath:/path/to/file.
>
> Will this be in the core, or is it just a fix for Andreas? I.e: should
> we document toppath() as a core command, or as a snippet?
> (Not that we have a general space on the wiki for snippets yet, but we
> need one and we will have one. Somethine in the next two weeks I'll
> write a "State of the Wiki" laying out what we have, what we don't
> have, and what we want next.)
>
> --Sietse
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
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