Proposal: making [[article]] and [[Article]] equivalent on the wiki

Proposal: making [[article]] and [[Article]] equivalent on the wiki

[Sietse Brouwer]

Hello, all,

The wiki currently has $wgCapitalLinks = false; meaning that if one
wishes to link to e.g. [[Columns]] inside a sentence one must write
"See the [[Columns|columns]] article." And if one links to another
article, one must remember whether its title is lowercase, Titlecase,
or if it doesn't matter because a redirect exists.

Proposal:
I propose we set
$wgCapitalLinks = true;
$wgCapitalLinkOverrides[ NS_FILE ] = false;
This will make writing a link as [[Article]] or [[article]] both
correct, but retain case sensitivity in the rest of the article title.
In the file namespace, however, case sensitivity will be retained for
the entire name, so that people won't have to download e.g.
"T-lilypond.tex".

Motivation below. Comments, agreement, disagreement welcome.
Cheers,
Sietse

Motivation:
Redirects can (and do) solve this, and so can changing the link, but
that is busywork that nobody should have to do.
Setting $wgCapitalLinks = true is a robust solution. Article titles
will remain case-sensitive, except for the first letter, meaning

* no more trying to remember whether an article is located at
[[lowercase]] or at [[Titlecase]]
* no more creating redirects from [[lowercase]] to [[Titlecase]] or vice versa
* you can always use the simplest wikilink, because [[Columns]] and
[[columns]] both work correctly.
* article titles will consistently be displayed in Titlecase
* for titles that should start in lowercase, such as [[texexec]] or
[[first-setup]], we'll need to add e.g. {{DISPLAYTITLE:texexec}}.

For the file namespace, it is preferable that case-sensitivity remains
on, especially for .tex and .zip files such as
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:T-lilypond.tex
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixIndex&prefix=&namespace=6
(The large amount of Titlecased filenames in that list is because in
the early days of this wiki, $wgCapitalLinks was also true
everywhere.)
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Re: Proposal: making [[article]] and [[Article]] equivalent on the wiki

[Philipp Gesang]

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···<date: 2012-09-19, Wednesday>···<from: Sietse Brouwer>···

> Hello, all,
> 
> The wiki currently has $wgCapitalLinks = false; meaning that if one
> wishes to link to e.g. [[Columns]] inside a sentence one must write
> "See the [[Columns|columns]] article." And if one links to another
> article, one must remember whether its title is lowercase, Titlecase,
> or if it doesn't matter because a redirect exists.
> 
> Proposal:
> I propose we set
> $wgCapitalLinks = true;
> $wgCapitalLinkOverrides[ NS_FILE ] = false;

+1, great idea!

Thanks
Philipp


> This will make writing a link as [[Article]] or [[article]] both
> correct, but retain case sensitivity in the rest of the article title.
> In the file namespace, however, case sensitivity will be retained for
> the entire name, so that people won't have to download e.g.
> "T-lilypond.tex".
> 
> Motivation below. Comments, agreement, disagreement welcome.
> Cheers,
> Sietse
> 
> Motivation:
> Redirects can (and do) solve this, and so can changing the link, but
> that is busywork that nobody should have to do.
> Setting $wgCapitalLinks = true is a robust solution. Article titles
> will remain case-sensitive, except for the first letter, meaning
> 
> * no more trying to remember whether an article is located at
> [[lowercase]] or at [[Titlecase]]
> * no more creating redirects from [[lowercase]] to [[Titlecase]] or vice versa
> * you can always use the simplest wikilink, because [[Columns]] and
> [[columns]] both work correctly.
> * article titles will consistently be displayed in Titlecase
> * for titles that should start in lowercase, such as [[texexec]] or
> [[first-setup]], we'll need to add e.g. {{DISPLAYTITLE:texexec}}.
> 
> For the file namespace, it is preferable that case-sensitivity remains
> on, especially for .tex and .zip files such as
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:T-lilypond.tex
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixIndex&prefix=&namespace=6
> (The large amount of Titlecased filenames in that list is because in
> the early days of this wiki, $wgCapitalLinks was also true
> everywhere.)
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Proposal: making [[article]] and [[Article]] equivalent on the wiki

[Mojca Miklavec]

Hello,

did someone, by any chance, already make that change?

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Sietse Brouwer wrote:
> Hello, all,
>
> The wiki currently has $wgCapitalLinks = false; meaning that if one
> wishes to link to e.g. [[Columns]] inside a sentence one must write
> "See the [[Columns|columns]] article." And if one links to another
> article, one must remember whether its title is lowercase, Titlecase,
> or if it doesn't matter because a redirect exists.
>
> Proposal:
> I propose we set
> $wgCapitalLinks = true;
> $wgCapitalLinkOverrides[ NS_FILE ] = false;
> This will make writing a link as [[Article]] or [[article]] both
> correct, but retain case sensitivity in the rest of the article title.
> In the file namespace, however, case sensitivity will be retained for
> the entire name, so that people won't have to download e.g.
> "T-lilypond.tex".

The setting was changed from true to false in past on purpose. I found
it very annoying that all the words were capitalized, even if there
was no reason to capitalized them. Filenames (like
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Cont-tmf.zip,
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/First-setup.sh) are not the only cases.
"write18" is another one etc.

Even if you change that setting, you still have no idea whether a page
is "Font Tools" or "Font tools" or "font tools". You can make a link
to [[font tools]] or [[headers and footers]] inside your sentence, but
that still won't help you to get to
    http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Font_Tools
    http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Headers_and_Footers
and most article names are actually very hard to guess, and in
contrast to wikipedia, the ConTeXt wiki hardly covers any substantial
amount of common words or phrases.

> Motivation below. Comments, agreement, disagreement welcome.

Personally I'm against that change.

> Motivation:
> Redirects can (and do) solve this, and so can changing the link, but
> that is busywork that nobody should have to do.

I agree, but having filenames capitalized is even more silly.

> * article titles will consistently be displayed in Titlecase

That is not always desired.

> * for titles that should start in lowercase, such as [[texexec]] or
> [[first-setup]], we'll need to add e.g. {{DISPLAYTITLE:texexec}}.

That partially compensates, but ...

Mojca

PS: can anyone please explain me what's with
    http://wiki.contextgarden.net/First-setup.sh
it's almost "an infinite chain" of redirects ... The real page,
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/First-setup, is the one that actually
makes least sense to me.
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Proposal: making [[article]] and [[Article]] equivalent on the wiki

[Sietse Brouwer]

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Mojca Miklavec
<mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> did someone, by any chance, already make that change?

No, it hasn't happened yet. What makes you ask?

The only change so far is that I moved all lowercased articles to the
Title-cased place. I did this because the lowercased entries will
become unavailable when $wgCapitalLinks is turned from false to true.

I don't want to mail Taco with the change request until after EuroTeX
2012 --- he is probably up to his ears in conference preparations, and
this is not urgent.

Cheers,
Sietse

--
Sietse Brouwer -- sbbrouwer@gmail.com -- +31 6 13.456.848
Verlengde Wassenaarseweg 4a -- 2342 BG Oegstgeest -- the Netherlands
MSN: sietse@gawab.com -- ICQ: 341232104


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Mojca Miklavec
<mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> did someone, by any chance, already make that change?
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Sietse Brouwer wrote:
>> Hello, all,
>>
>> The wiki currently has $wgCapitalLinks = false; meaning that if one
>> wishes to link to e.g. [[Columns]] inside a sentence one must write
>> "See the [[Columns|columns]] article." And if one links to another
>> article, one must remember whether its title is lowercase, Titlecase,
>> or if it doesn't matter because a redirect exists.
>>
>> Proposal:
>> I propose we set
>> $wgCapitalLinks = true;
>> $wgCapitalLinkOverrides[ NS_FILE ] = false;
>> This will make writing a link as [[Article]] or [[article]] both
>> correct, but retain case sensitivity in the rest of the article title.
>> In the file namespace, however, case sensitivity will be retained for
>> the entire name, so that people won't have to download e.g.
>> "T-lilypond.tex".
>
> The setting was changed from true to false in past on purpose. I found
> it very annoying that all the words were capitalized, even if there
> was no reason to capitalized them. Filenames (like
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Cont-tmf.zip,
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/First-setup.sh) are not the only cases.
> "write18" is another one etc.
>
> Even if you change that setting, you still have no idea whether a page
> is "Font Tools" or "Font tools" or "font tools". You can make a link
> to [[font tools]] or [[headers and footers]] inside your sentence, but
> that still won't help you to get to
>     http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Font_Tools
>     http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Headers_and_Footers
> and most article names are actually very hard to guess, and in
> contrast to wikipedia, the ConTeXt wiki hardly covers any substantial
> amount of common words or phrases.
>
>> Motivation below. Comments, agreement, disagreement welcome.
>
> Personally I'm against that change.
>
>> Motivation:
>> Redirects can (and do) solve this, and so can changing the link, but
>> that is busywork that nobody should have to do.
>
> I agree, but having filenames capitalized is even more silly.
>
>> * article titles will consistently be displayed in Titlecase
>
> That is not always desired.
>
>> * for titles that should start in lowercase, such as [[texexec]] or
>> [[first-setup]], we'll need to add e.g. {{DISPLAYTITLE:texexec}}.
>
> That partially compensates, but ...
>
> Mojca
>
> PS: can anyone please explain me what's with
>     http://wiki.contextgarden.net/First-setup.sh
> it's almost "an infinite chain" of redirects ... The real page,
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/First-setup, is the one that actually
> makes least sense to me.
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Proposal: making [[article]] and [[Article]] equivalent on the wiki

[Arthur Reutenauer]

> PS: can anyone please explain me what's with
>     http://wiki.contextgarden.net/First-setup.sh
> it's almost "an infinite chain" of redirects ... The real page,
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/First-setup, is the one that actually
> makes least sense to me.

  It's a chain of 2, which is a little short of infinity ;-)
First-setup.sh redirects to first-setup, which in turn redirects to
First-setup, so it's not too complicated.  But obviously it's not very
consistent, and all these pages should point to one single page.  And I
agree with you that "First-setup" is an odd name, by the way; it seems
better to either use the name of the script, i. e. "first-setup.sh", or
a full phrase in English, such as "First setup".

	Arthur
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Proposal: making [[article]] and [[Article]] equivalent on the wiki

[Sietse Brouwer]

>> PS: can anyone please explain me what's with
>>     http://wiki.contextgarden.net/First-setup.sh

I remember being unable to decide between the Windows name or the
Linux name at the time, like the donkey caught between two haystacks,
which is how this muddle came about. Then it got worse when I moved
everything to titlecase, thus creating the chain
first-setup.sh --> First-setup.sh --> First-setup

>   It's a chain of 2, which is a little short of infinity ;-)

"Sufficiently infinite", I would say. ;-)

> First-setup.sh redirects to first-setup, which in turn redirects to
> First-setup, so it's not too complicated.  But obviously it's not very
> consistent, and all these pages should point to one single page.

Yep, amended. I'd forgotten to run a double redirects check after my
'move al to titlecase' action.

> And I
> agree with you that "First-setup" is an odd name, by the way; it seems
> better to either use the name of the script, i. e. "first-setup.sh", or
> a full phrase in English, such as "First setup".

Agree^3. I'd go for the script name, then. First-setup.sh, shall we
say? (Possibly to be changed to 'first-setup.sh' once this discussion
is concluded.)

--Sietse

P.s. My first reply to Mojca, I somehow missed the rest of her e-mail.
Better reply forthcoming.
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Re: Proposal: making [[article]] and [[Article]] equivalent on the wiki

[Sietse Brouwer]

Hi Mojca,

Sorry, somehow I missed everything but your first line when I wrote my
reply. Here's a better answer.

Mojca wrote:
> Even if you change that setting, you still have no idea whether a page
> is "Font Tools" or "Font tools" or "font tools". You can make a link
> to [[font tools]] or [[headers and footers]] inside your sentence, but
> that still won't help you to get to
>     http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Font_Tools
>     http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Headers_and_Footers

It'll help you get to [[Multiline equations]], though. Multi-word
titles are still inconsistent, and I think that [[Headers and
footers]] and [[Font tools]] would be better titles: both more
predictable and more linkable. Wikipedia uses the same policy, and I
think it works well:

* titles are displayed with an initial capital, unless otherwise
specified with {{DISPLAYTITLE:...}}
* the rest of the title is in lowercase, except for proper nouns etc.
(e.g. TeX); just like you'd write the phrase in a sentence.
* links can be both with and without an initial capital, depending on
need at the linking end.

What we have to deal with that Wikipedia doesn't, is filenames (and a
few commands): -- we'd like those to display and behave as lowercase.
So we want lowercase on occasion, but we don't want it to get
confusing, either --- we don't want people to wonder whether to write
[[Article]] or [[article]], and we especially don't want there to be a
wrong answer. Now, neither of these requirements compel us to enable
or disable wgCapitalLinks.

File and command names can be solved like so:
1.a keep wgCapitalLinks disabled, and simply title the articles like
the filenames
1.b enable wgCapitalLinks, and simply use {{DISPLAYTITLE:filename}} on
filename articles.

No "[[Article]] vs. [[article]]" doubts can be achieved like so:
2.a keep wgCapitalLinks disabled, consistent article naming policy
plus consistently writing [[Article|article]] to get lowercased links
2.b keep wgCapitalLinks disabled, consistent article naming policy
plus a lowercase-to-titlecase (or v.v.) redirect for every article
2.c enable wgCapitalLinks. (Still need an article naming policy for
multi-word titles, of course.)

So, which is the bigger burden: lowercasing filenames manually, or
manually adjusting mid-sentence links? I think making article titles
look like filenames is more of an edge case than linking to articles
is. You write that "the ConTeXt wiki hardly covers any substantial
amount of common words or phrases", but have a look at this page:
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/index.php?title=Special:AllPages&from=Symbols&to=write18
There are only about 20 or so filename/commandname articles on the
entire wiki (excluding those under Command/), of which about 12
describe various no-longer-used zip files. There are a lot of articles
with names one could easily work into a sentence, even if we don't
have as many 'simple noun' articles as Wikipedia.

Kind regards,
Sietse
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