From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/70031 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Cecil Westerhof Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Edit a ConTeXt generated document with Adobe Acrobat Professional Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:58:15 +0200 Message-ID: References: <1310719674.4e1ffeba453cb@go.aksdb.de> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1829616608==" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1310720319 21847 80.91.229.12 (15 Jul 2011 08:58:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 08:58:39 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Fri Jul 15 10:58:34 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([195.12.62.10]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QheEE-0004cY-KD for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:58:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07E20CAE49; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:58:34 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 870FQgBY1pLO; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:58:28 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E3C4CAE3D; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:58:28 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D113CAE3D for ; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:58:27 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Dz0UQAoutbNg for ; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:58:16 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter2-ams.mf.surf.net (filter2-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.70]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36125CAE3C for ; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:58:16 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-ew0-f41.google.com (mail-ew0-f41.google.com [209.85.215.41]) by filter2-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id p6F8wFtL007338 for ; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:58:15 +0200 Original-Received: by ewy9 with SMTP id 9so910943ewy.14 for ; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 01:58:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=EsVw3HKAjtdO3XRrZFp/l9eXX4ijBeFd2qkUU974Jiw=; b=qefYfQMCzba6Ch0sf8Uvl2qFWp6VqeR1SGLzGjR7CKXGcQBkw6KT3MZURn9yYkddGM EmzHiT7KFI3xXsoDwAG+PjgC5ChPjxSwNJL6emfTf09TBi1h7AEDRiDekmM78gsodkrB qQKGE4+2VERAz2eu+8XgcGWqtKS4lTNtw0K24= Original-Received: by 10.14.28.202 with SMTP id g50mr1132324eea.224.1310720295423; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 01:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.14.22.75 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 01:58:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1310719674.4e1ffeba453cb@go.aksdb.de> X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=209.85.215.41; country=US; region=CA; city=Mountain View; postalcode=94043; latitude=37.4192; longitude=-122.0574; metrocode=807; areacode=650; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=37.4192,-122.0574&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0rF88Wf53 - 9d1e158a5152 - 20110715 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.87.102.70 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:70031 Archived-At: --===============1829616608== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec52be70f9bcd8f04a817d9c1 --bcaec52be70f9bcd8f04a817d9c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 2011/7/15 Andreas Schneider > At Friday, 15.07.2011 on 10:17 Cecil Westerhof wrote: > > Properly that anybody that knows how to write a document in Microsoft > Office > > can change the document. So standard software, with a low learning curve. > I > > had some problems getting them to accept to use Adobe. And now that turns > > out to be not a real option. Learning all the time as Benny Hill said. > > That's absolutely not true. MS Office Word has a pretty steep learning > curve, people just neglect that and take it for a slightly more complex > notepad. It's not, as can be seen be the loads of completely unprofessional > done documents ... not consistent styles, no auto generated index, no cross > references, no proper bibliography (where it applies), etc. (Hell, I even > saw documents where footnotes where done [superscript] and numbered > manually.) > That's exactly the problem with Word, Writer, etc., that people think it's > an easy to use tool, just because it's WYSIWYG. If you don't know what you > are doing, you WILL do it wrong, even (or especially) with such an "easy" > tool as Word or Writer. > I agree. But that is accepted practice. I find that most times it is more important to generate something fast and then have to use a lot of time to get things changed or right, then to setup things correctly (which takes time) and in the future can change things faster, more efficient en more consistent. In a way I am even afraid that the better pleasing document I generated could be pearls to the swines. > Also with TeXworks it's already pretty WYSIWYG, imho. Change the code, hit > "run", and see the result :) > Something to look into then. > > No the problem is not the layout. They are satisfied with that. They just > do > > not want to be dependent on our company. > > They don't have to. Give them ConTeXt, give them TeXworks, give them the > source to the documents. Then they can do whatever they want. > I'll give it a try. -- Cecil Westerhof --bcaec52be70f9bcd8f04a817d9c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2011/7/15 Andreas Schneider &l= t;aksdb@gmx.de>
At Friday, 15.07.2011 on 10:17 Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Properly that anybody that knows how to write a document in Microsoft = Office
> can change the document. So standard software, with a low learning cur= ve. I
> had some problems getting them to accept to use Adobe. And now that tu= rns
> out to be not a real option. Learning all the time as Benny Hill said.=

That's absolutely not true. MS Office Word has a pretty steep lea= rning curve, people just neglect that and take it for a slightly more compl= ex notepad. It's not, as can be seen be the loads of completely unprofe= ssional done documents ... not consistent styles, no auto generated index, = no cross references, no proper bibliography (where it applies), etc. (Hell,= I even saw documents where footnotes where done [superscript] and numbered= manually.)
That's exactly the problem with Word, Writer, etc., that people think i= t's an easy to use tool, just because it's WYSIWYG. If you don'= t know what you are doing, you WILL do it wrong, even (or especially) with = such an "easy" tool as Word or Writer.

I agree. But that is accepted practice. I find that m= ost times it is more important to generate something fast and then have to = use a lot of time to get things changed or right, then to setup things corr= ectly (which takes time) and in the future can change things faster, more e= fficient en more consistent.

In a way I am even afraid that the better pleasing document I generated= could be pearls to the swines.

=A0
Also with TeXworks it's already pretty WYSIWYG, imho. Change the code, = hit "run", and see the result :)

Somethi= ng to look into then.

=A0
> No the problem is not the layout. They are satisfied= with that. They just do
> not want to be dependent on our company.

They don't have to. Give them ConTeXt, give them TeXworks, give t= hem the source to the documents. Then they can do whatever they want.

I'll give it a try.
=A0
--
Cecil Westerhof
--bcaec52be70f9bcd8f04a817d9c1-- --===============1829616608== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============1829616608==--