From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/90885 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: luigi scarso Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: RAL colours Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 10:32:59 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20150404113110.GN9095@darjiling> <73D5DBF2-E4B8-458D-9A3B-E3114D058837@fiee.net> <20150404160039.GO9095@darjiling> <7FFC39BD-A82F-4F81-A8C1-D476BD131549@fiee.net> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1493956924==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1428309231 8001 80.91.229.3 (6 Apr 2015 08:33:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 08:33:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Pavneet Arora To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon Apr 06 10:33:37 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yf2TQ-0005KH-Bv for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Apr 2015 10:33:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E94B101FE for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2015 10:33:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id HbuEKWLdiGME for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2015 10:33:34 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8895510242 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2015 10:33:05 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0759F101FE for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2015 10:33:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id cToo6xqP3W7J for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2015 10:33:00 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (filter3-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.71]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C605D101F9 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2015 10:33:00 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-wi0-x229.google.com (mail-wi0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::229]) by filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id t368WxUQ029206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2015 10:32:59 +0200 Original-Received: by widdi4 with SMTP id di4so24422173wid.0 for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2015 01:32:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=KuUFe5vLvPY7lY3DzR1ei9R9j2cXCkT1tXrx4HSyaF4=; b=rB4jy0BGJYoBmsP0jMNj9m21HheG73PaeuQmdkmSJtokGYfk6b6RqCk7fUCtCrGHQh +uZgXesvJf+bTEwerxxVc/1qsWcG2O3G3lkhmdp94LpCzco1zKnG+GjN13FXsIWnCn0V sfc3JXXAdYEebPk/Dc3zf/Ujw7HZVWXH2v48ICN4WrTa8ZAtsoc/hml4ioxwXp5kFhGI COuOrtfu1ScTuLBvBpWlS+PN+xIt9sVj4M9xFL/19vFRt4o8y9VGj/5mGdrPwaEgKyMy RBhCn2bSArbjyApczTHQiNitfvY3DppunCVrH98oZxup9iDoqD//wGxPYSyiJ+cjoVbG zGXw== X-Received: by 10.181.13.198 with SMTP id fa6mr1043165wid.41.1428309179444; Mon, 06 Apr 2015 01:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.194.68.166 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Apr 2015 01:32:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7FFC39BD-A82F-4F81-A8C1-D476BD131549@fiee.net> X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: ntg-context@ntg.nl, base:default, @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::229; country=IE; latitude=53.3478; longitude=-6.2597; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=53.3478,-6.2597&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 03OcwwXcN - b85a0bda016d - 20150406 (trained as not-spam) Received-SPF: pass (filter3-ams.mf.surf.net: domain of luigi.scarso@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::229 as permitted sender) receiver=filter3-ams.mf.surf.net; client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::229; envelope-from=; helo=mail-wi0-x229.google.com; identity=mailfrom X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: "ntg-context" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:90885 Archived-At: --===============1493956924== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043d648945336e05130a25ad --f46d043d648945336e05130a25ad Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 6:11 AM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote: > Am 2015-04-04 um 22:00 schrieb Pavneet Arora : > > > This is great insight into the printing world. Of course, Pantone has = a > > dominant position on this continent at least, but as you stated, its > > proprietary nature keeps the palette from being distributed easily. > > The same is probably true for RAL. > Be aware that RAL is no color system, but just an arbitrary and > historically grown collection. In this regard it=E2=80=99s even worse tha= n X11 > colors. > There=E2=80=99s also RAL design system, that would be better, but it=E2= =80=99s still > copyrighted and not suitable for CMYK or RGB devices. > > See e.g. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAL_colour_standard > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAL-Farbe > > Conversions of RAL colors (that are defined in CIE L*a*b) are just > approximations for one special RGB color space, most probably sRGB, and > can=E2=80=99t cover everything, since every color space is rather limited= . > > Conversions of L*a*b or any RGB colors into CMYK depend on several > parameters (rendering intent, GCR/UCR), because CMYK color spaces are > generally quite small, and you can hit the same color spot with different > mixtures of CMYK inks. > > > > So the question remains: if the X11 colourspace is found inadequate, i= s > > there another one that we might look for inspiration to create decent > > spot colours for document processing? Even if RAL colours are used for > > varnish, does that mitigate the use of their RGB values for other > > paints? Note, that I am not seeking exact calibration of colours, say > > for branding across different media; just a more expressive palette for > > print applications. > > > > Unfortunately, I don't have access to the Adobe products that you > > mention, and in any case would just want a convenient set of colours > > inside ConTeXt to create documents on the fly. > > > > For this type of work, are there any other "open source" palettes that > > we might look towards? > > Spot colors for printing rely on manufacturers that produce those > inks/paints. > The existing palettes are defined by (or in cooperation with) > manufacturers. > There exists nothing like open source paint recipes, AFAIK, so it would > make no sense to define an open source (i.e. freely licensed) > palette/system of spot colors. > > Of course it=E2=80=99s possible to define a system of (anyhow) matching c= olors. > But that=E2=80=99s so much a matter of taste and application that I would= n=E2=80=99t start > with such an enterprise. > There are some good online tools that help you finding matching design > colors, at least for (s)RGB, e.g. Adobe Kuler or paletton.com. > If you need spot colors for printing, you need a (digital or physical) > palette from the manufacturers. > > > Interesting topic. I just add for the record http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/How_to_legally_obtain_spot_colour_palettes_f= or_use_in_Scribus_1.3.3.x_and_later_versions http://www.selapa.net/swatchbooker/ --=20 luigi --f46d043d648945336e05130a25ad Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 6:11 AM, Henning Hraban Ramm &= lt;texml@fiee.net&g= t; wrote:
Am 2015-04-04 um 22:0= 0 schrieb Pavneet Arora <pavn= eet_arora@waroc.com>:

> This is great insight into the printing world.=C2=A0 Of course, Panton= e has a
> dominant position on this continent at least, but as you stated, its > proprietary nature keeps the palette from being distributed easily.
The same is probably true for RAL.
Be aware that RAL is no color system, but just an arbitrary and historicall= y grown collection. In this regard it=E2=80=99s even worse than X11 colors.=
There=E2=80=99s also RAL design system, that would be better, but it=E2=80= =99s still copyrighted and not suitable for CMYK or RGB devices.

See e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAL_colour_standard
http:/= /de.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAL-Farbe

Conversions of RAL colors (that are defined in CIE L*a*b) are just approxim= ations for one special RGB color space, most probably sRGB, and can=E2=80= =99t cover everything, since every color space is rather limited.

Conversions of L*a*b or any RGB colors into CMYK depend on several paramete= rs (rendering intent, GCR/UCR), because CMYK color spaces are generally qui= te small, and you can hit the same color spot with different mixtures of CM= YK inks.


> So the question remains:=C2=A0 if the X11 colourspace is found inadequ= ate, is
> there another one that we might look for inspiration to create decent<= br> > spot colours for document processing?=C2=A0 Even if RAL colours are us= ed for
> varnish, does that mitigate the use of their RGB values for other
> paints?=C2=A0 Note, that I am not seeking exact calibration of colours= , say
> for branding across different media; just a more expressive palette fo= r
> print applications.
>
> Unfortunately, I don't have access to the Adobe products that you<= br> > mention, and in any case would just want a convenient set of colours > inside ConTeXt to create documents on the fly.
>
> For this type of work, are there any other "open source" pal= ettes that
> we might look towards?

Spot colors for printing rely on manufacturers that produce those in= ks/paints.
The existing palettes are defined by (or in cooperation with) manufacturers= .
There exists nothing like open source paint recipes, AFAIK, so it would mak= e no sense to define an open source (i.e. freely licensed) palette/system o= f spot colors.

Of course it=E2=80=99s possible to define a system of (anyhow) matching col= ors. But that=E2=80=99s so much a matter of taste and application that I wo= uldn=E2=80=99t start with such an enterprise.
There are some good online tools that help you finding matching design colo= rs, at least for (s)RGB, e.g. Adobe Kuler or paletton.com.
If you need spot colors for printing, you need a (digital or physical) pale= tte from the manufacturers.


Interesting topic.
I just add for the recor= d
--
luigi<= br>
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