Slanted, double-quoted quotations

Slanted, double-quoted quotations

[Sander Maijers]

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Hi,

I'm using beta 2014.09.27. The code below produces a slanted, unquoted
quotation, whereas I intend to produce a slanted, double-quoted quotation.
How can I fix it?

\definedelimitedtext[quotationsl][
  style=slanted,
  left={\symbol[leftquotation]},
  right={\symbol[rightquotation]},
  location=text,
]

\setupdelimitedtext[quotationsl][style=slanted,left={\symbol[leftquotation]},right={\symbol[rightquotation]}]

\starttext
    \quotationsl{This should be slanted and double-quoted.}
\stoptext

Best,
Sander Maijers

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Re: Slanted, double-quoted quotations

[Rik Kabel]

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On 2014-10-15 09:06, Sander Maijers wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm using beta 2014.09.27. The code below produces a slanted, unquoted 
> quotation, whereas I intend to produce a slanted, double-quoted 
> quotation. How can I fix it?
>
> \definedelimitedtext[quotationsl][
>   style=slanted,
>   left={\symbol[leftquotation]},
>   right={\symbol[rightquotation]},
>   location=text,
> ]
>
> \setupdelimitedtext[quotationsl][style=slanted,left={\symbol[leftquotation]},right={\symbol[rightquotation]}]
>
> \starttext
>     \quotationsl{This should be slanted and double-quoted.}
> \stoptext
>
> Best,
> Sander Maijers
>
Looks like a bug.

Modifying the parenthesis example at 
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Command/setupdelimitedtext demonstrates 
that when a style other than normal is specified, the left and right 
settings are ignored  and style settings in deeper levels ignored as 
well. (There may be other keys that are ignored as well, and others that 
set this off.) I tried a number of combinations. The following is one 
that shows the problem. Without the style settings, it works as 
described in the wiki.

    \definedelimitedtext[parenthesis][location=text]
    \setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:1] [left={(}, right={)}]
    \setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:2] [style=slanted, left={[}, right={]}]
    \setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:3] [style=normal, left={\{},
    right={\}}]
    \starttext
    \parenthesis{My outer layer \parenthesis{my inner layer
    \parenthesis{my innermost layer}}}
    \stoptext

-- 
rik

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Slanted, double-quoted quotations

[Hans Hagen]

On 10/15/2014 4:58 PM, Rik Kabel wrote:
> On 2014-10-15 09:06, Sander Maijers wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm using beta 2014.09.27. The code below produces a slanted, unquoted
>> quotation, whereas I intend to produce a slanted, double-quoted
>> quotation. How can I fix it?
>>
>> \definedelimitedtext[quotationsl][
>>   style=slanted,
>>   left={\symbol[leftquotation]},
>>   right={\symbol[rightquotation]},
>>   location=text,
>> ]
>>
>> \setupdelimitedtext[quotationsl][style=slanted,left={\symbol[leftquotation]},right={\symbol[rightquotation]}]
>>
>> \starttext
>>     \quotationsl{This should be slanted and double-quoted.}
>> \stoptext
>>
>> Best,
>> Sander Maijers
>>
> Looks like a bug.

it's deliberate and has always been the case in mkiv

> Modifying the parenthesis example at
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Command/setupdelimitedtext demonstrates
> that when a style other than normal is specified, the left and right
> settings are ignored  and style settings in deeper levels ignored as
> well. (There may be other keys that are ignored as well, and others that
> set this off.) I tried a number of combinations. The following is one
> that shows the problem. Without the style settings, it works as
> described in the wiki.

well, i can do a different check (in next beta) but you deal with 
questions about incompatible behaviour ...

>     \definedelimitedtext[parenthesis][location=text]
>     \setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:1] [left={(}, right={)}]
>     \setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:2] [style=slanted, left={[}, right={]}]
>     \setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:3] [style=normal, left={\{},
>     right={\}}]
>     \starttext
>     \parenthesis{My outer layer \parenthesis{my inner layer
>     \parenthesis{my innermost layer}}}
>     \stoptext

i'll add symstyle/color:

\definedelimitedtext[parenthesis]   [location=text]
\setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:1] [left={(}, right={)}]
\setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:2] 
[symcolor=red,symstyle=boldslanted,style=slanted, left={[}, right={]}]
\setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:3] 
[symcolor=blue,symstyle=bold,style=normal, left={\{}, right={\}}]

\starttext
     \parenthesis{My outer layer \parenthesis{my inner layer 
\parenthesis{my innermost layer}}}
\stoptext


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     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Slanted, double-quoted quotations

[Rik Kabel]

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On 2014-10-15 13:38, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 10/15/2014 4:58 PM, Rik Kabel wrote:
>> On 2014-10-15 09:06, Sander Maijers wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm using beta 2014.09.27. The code below produces a slanted, unquoted
>>> quotation, whereas I intend to produce a slanted, double-quoted
>>> quotation. How can I fix it?
>>>
>>> \definedelimitedtext[quotationsl][
>>>   style=slanted,
>>>   left={\symbol[leftquotation]},
>>>   right={\symbol[rightquotation]},
>>>   location=text,
>>> ]
>>>
>>> \setupdelimitedtext[quotationsl][style=slanted,left={\symbol[leftquotation]},right={\symbol[rightquotation]}] 
>>>
>>>
>>> \starttext
>>>     \quotationsl{This should be slanted and double-quoted.}
>>> \stoptext
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Sander Maijers
>>>
>> Looks like a bug.
>
> it's deliberate and has always been the case in mkiv
>
>> Modifying the parenthesis example at
>> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Command/setupdelimitedtext demonstrates
>> that when a style other than normal is specified, the left and right
>> settings are ignored  and style settings in deeper levels ignored as
>> well. (There may be other keys that are ignored as well, and others that
>> set this off.) I tried a number of combinations. The following is one
>> that shows the problem. Without the style settings, it works as
>> described in the wiki.
>
> well, i can do a different check (in next beta) but you deal with 
> questions about incompatible behaviour ...
>
>> \definedelimitedtext[parenthesis][location=text]
>>     \setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:1] [left={(}, right={)}]
>>     \setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:2] [style=slanted, left={[}, 
>> right={]}]
>>     \setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:3] [style=normal, left={\{},
>>     right={\}}]
>>     \starttext
>>     \parenthesis{My outer layer \parenthesis{my inner layer
>>     \parenthesis{my innermost layer}}}
>>     \stoptext
>
> i'll add symstyle/color:
>
> \definedelimitedtext[parenthesis]   [location=text]
> \setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:1] [left={(}, right={)}]
> \setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:2] 
> [symcolor=red,symstyle=boldslanted,style=slanted, left={[}, right={]}]
> \setupdelimitedtext [parenthesis:3] 
> [symcolor=blue,symstyle=bold,style=normal, left={\{}, right={\}}]
>
> \starttext
>     \parenthesis{My outer layer \parenthesis{my inner layer 
> \parenthesis{my innermost layer}}}
> \stoptext
>
Hans,

I am not sure I understand the need for symstyle and symcolor. The issue 
is not that the symbols are not styled/colored, but that they do not 
appear at all when a non-normal style is specified. What I see with the 
example I posted is:

and I assume that Sander saw a similar issue.

Note that there are no square brackets present as defined for layer 2.

I realize that style=normal for level 3 should perhaps be style=\tf, 
since normal is redefined to slanted within the scope of layer 2. With 
that change to my example, I get

This still has the lack of square brackets, and now in addition lacks 
curly braces for level 3.

If your fix is meant to repair that, all is well. If not, could you 
explain why “it's deliberate and has always been the case in mkiv”?

-- 
Rik Kabel

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Slanted, double-quoted quotations

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 15.10.2014 um 21:03 schrieb Rik Kabel <context@rik.users.panix.com>:

> I am not sure I understand the need for symstyle and symcolor. The issue is not that the symbols are not styled/colored, but that they do not appear at all when a non-normal style is specified. What I see with the example I posted is:
> <hacaddjd.png>
> and I assume that Sander saw a similar issue.
> 
> Note that there are no square brackets present as defined for layer 2.
> 
> I realize that style=normal for level 3 should perhaps be style=\tf, since normal is redefined to slanted within the scope of layer 2. With that change to my example, I get
> <fageaehi.png>
> This still has the lack of square brackets, and now in addition lacks curly braces for level 3.
> 
> If your fix is meant to repair that, all is well. If not, could you explain why “it's deliberate and has always been the case in mkiv”?

When you use “location=text” context checks the value of the style key, when the value of the key is “normal”
the left and right arguments are used but when you use a different value (e.g. slanted) context applies only
the style and color values.


Another way to create quotation command is to use the annotation module:

\usemodule[annotation]

\defineannotation
  [quotationsl]
  [style=slanted,
   leftsymbol={\symbol[leftquotation]},
   rightsymbol={\symbol[rightquotation]},
   alternative=quotation]

\starttext
    \quotationsl{This should be slanted and double-quoted.}
\stoptext


Wolfgang

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Re: Slanted, double-quoted quotations

[Rik]

On 2014-10-15 17:06, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 15.10.2014 um 21:03 schrieb Rik Kabel <context@rik.users.panix.com>:
>
>> I am not sure I understand the need for symstyle and symcolor. The issue is not that the symbols are not styled/colored, but that they do not appear at all when a non-normal style is specified. What I see with the example I posted is:
>> <hacaddjd.png>
>> and I assume that Sander saw a similar issue.
>>
>> Note that there are no square brackets present as defined for layer 2.
>>
>> I realize that style=normal for level 3 should perhaps be style=\tf, since normal is redefined to slanted within the scope of layer 2. With that change to my example, I get
>> <fageaehi.png>
>> This still has the lack of square brackets, and now in addition lacks curly braces for level 3.
>>
>> If your fix is meant to repair that, all is well. If not, could you explain why “it's deliberate and has always been the case in mkiv”?
> When you use “location=text” context checks the value of the style key, when the value of the key is “normal”
> the left and right arguments are used but when you use a different value (e.g. slanted) context applies only
> the style and color values.
>

Thank you, Wolfgang, for that explanation of what is being done.

Can you explain why this is done? It would seem, given the name of the 
command, that the delimiter is more important than the styling, and so I 
suspect that there is some historical reason that this behavior was 
chosen. Styling can be done within the text, as can delimiters, but the 
benefit of the command is that it should be able to manage multiple 
levels automatically.

-- 
Rik Kabel
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Re: Slanted, double-quoted quotations

[Sander Maijers]

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I am wondering likewise.

Sander Maijers

On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 3:14 AM, Rik <rik@panix.com> wrote:

> On 2014-10-15 17:06, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
>> Am 15.10.2014 um 21:03 schrieb Rik Kabel <context@rik.users.panix.com>:
>>
>>  I am not sure I understand the need for symstyle and symcolor. The issue
>>> is not that the symbols are not styled/colored, but that they do not appear
>>> at all when a non-normal style is specified. What I see with the example I
>>> posted is:
>>> <hacaddjd.png>
>>> and I assume that Sander saw a similar issue.
>>>
>>> Note that there are no square brackets present as defined for layer 2.
>>>
>>> I realize that style=normal for level 3 should perhaps be style=\tf,
>>> since normal is redefined to slanted within the scope of layer 2. With that
>>> change to my example, I get
>>> <fageaehi.png>
>>> This still has the lack of square brackets, and now in addition lacks
>>> curly braces for level 3.
>>>
>>> If your fix is meant to repair that, all is well. If not, could you
>>> explain why “it's deliberate and has always been the case in mkiv”?
>>>
>> When you use “location=text” context checks the value of the style key,
>> when the value of the key is “normal”
>> the left and right arguments are used but when you use a different value
>> (e.g. slanted) context applies only
>> the style and color values.
>>
>>
> Thank you, Wolfgang, for that explanation of what is being done.
>
> Can you explain why this is done? It would seem, given the name of the
> command, that the delimiter is more important than the styling, and so I
> suspect that there is some historical reason that this behavior was chosen.
> Styling can be done within the text, as can delimiters, but the benefit of
> the command is that it should be able to manage multiple levels
> automatically.
>
> --
> Rik Kabel
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/
> listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________________

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Re: Slanted, double-quoted quotations

[Rik]

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On 2014-10-20 10:08, Sander Maijers wrote:
> I am wondering likewise.
>
Sander,

The question has been mooted. The first beta (of two) on 2014-10-16 
resolved the issue, and the result of your example is what the text in 
it describes.

-- 
rik

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Re: Slanted, double-quoted quotations

[Sander Maijers]

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Great, thanks for reporting.

Sander Maijers

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Rik <rik@panix.com> wrote:

>  On 2014-10-20 10:08, Sander Maijers wrote:
>
>  I am wondering likewise.
>
>  Sander,
>
> The question has been mooted. The first beta (of two) on 2014-10-16
> resolved the issue, and the result of your example is what the text in it
> describes.
>
> --
> rik
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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