From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/84482 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mari Voipio Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Feedback wanted on a ConTeXt tutorial Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 21:26:24 +0300 Message-ID: References: <20130929170510.GA14768@homerow> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1380479195 24898 80.91.229.3 (29 Sep 2013 18:26:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 18:26:35 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sun Sep 29 20:26:41 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VQLhV-0007AB-5v for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:26:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DDF10193; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:24:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id OlSSwqQNliKp; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:24:17 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D291101DE; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:24:17 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E785101DE for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:24:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id RpN1HsZLGU1J for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:24:11 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter1-utr.mf.surf.net (filter1-utr.mf.surf.net [195.169.124.152]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF1010193 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:24:11 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-wg0-x235.google.com (mail-wg0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::235]) by filter1-utr.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id r8TIQOkZ015978 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:26:25 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-wg0-f53.google.com with SMTP id x12so4180407wgg.20 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 11:26:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Pwy/6/z0C3tq7lpO/55T6CYFCTDKGWoR4K0YGjnd9oM=; b=U7z1cSiAwVzxzAWJ8sk0i+6FLNzioNfsxpGM7gqjLR8mbElIbUCHhMUu12tWvvVtZg LWSmmvKA0i3n4pMtfXIGPKn6UbSOYia6SdUOebZpESMFbp4a7kv2WEhpvrhAH8FfaFQH Y9vLUVv+RYQ/9BkECN/dZ+F7miZ5lhthsUrqUIvQFUTsjXSRUJScwsNtuePhk1/4ieLa qwd9psqoXpqffEzW7zkew+D421eL5Pa7E6OnWe89n9rzZO7+u6PL2oqpaolT924zwOYj Y9LPqh2uO/Bche3RZDGB+NLpqaKU+u/jPqAYbQqfDMubpsnzHRUSC6BguGDOTXQLP9Wx 2IZQ== X-Received: by 10.181.12.104 with SMTP id ep8mr10607764wid.54.1380479184723; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 11:26:24 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.194.76.10 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 11:26:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130929170510.GA14768@homerow> X-Google-Sender-Auth: esDHt0fEpmYE1aZBM4P0_tZ-q2A X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::235; country=IE X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 07Kv6qphe - 6b45c8b3b3da - 20130929 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:84482 Archived-At: On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Marco Patzer wrote: > Then there is a medium sized manual aimed at beginners, =93ConTeXt, an > excursion=94 (which is rather outdated, I agree) I was actually aiming at one step lower and in doing things in the order a word processor user would approach ConTeXt. My copy of excursion is fairly thumbed at this stage, but I still sometimes need to use find to actually get at the things I need. So I wrote this new one "my way". > As I said, I didn't take part in the mentioned discussion, so I > might be missing out relevant information. It wasn't anything major, just some off-hand sentences. I've just written something similar for MetaPost, so this approach felt natural and kept me amused during the travel home (including 4 hrs spent sitting at the airport). > I never installed ConTeXt on Windows, but if this is true this > should definitely be fixed. According to > > http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Standalone#Command_line_method > > it should be sufficient to run > > 1) download the installer: http://minimals.contextgarden.net/setup/contex= t-setup-mswin.zip > 2) install: first-setup.bat > 3) add ConTeXt to path: http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Windows_Installatio= n:_ConTeXt_Suite_with_SciTe#Step_3:_Add_ConTeXt_to_Windows_search_path > (Maybe adding the exact command or a screenshot for step 3 would > be helpful.) The problem is here: Windows users in general aren't used to command line and even fewer have ever touched a path (or even know such a thing exists). The only almost one-click approach is TeXLive - and unfortunately I can't currently test that on my Windows as it might mess up with my vital ConTeXt installation. Thus there is no real "Windows way" of installing ConTeXt and this may hold some potential users back. > 5 Formatting text > > Since you explicitly mention =93The basic idea is to separate layout > from content=94 in sections 2.1 and 3.1 I think it's not very > educational to tell beginners to use font switches in the code: > > This is a {\ss test}. % sans serif > This is a {\tt test}. % typewriter > > Rather teach logical markup from the very beginning. True. Not that I follow this advice myself, but probably should (some of my earlier ConTeXt files are - umm - not beautiful because I have some Word baggage). > > \definehighlight > [important] > [style=3Dbold] > > \important{This} is logical markup. I'd say this approach is too complicated for somebody who just wants to do documents on ConTeXt (more typing, too, and we people are lazy). However, I was thinking about trashing both \bf and \it and just talking about \em for marking emphasis. I think the big manual includes information on how to adjust \em to one's preferences (I'm sure I saw it *somewhere* while digging stuff up for this). > This is arguable, but I personally would drop the (not deprecated > and still supported) MkII syntax for floats Interestingly, this was the only syntax I know of and the only one I can find in the manuals and on the wiki. > > \placefigure > [here,force] % really try to put the float just here > {This is a cow} % Caption > {\externalfigure[cow][width=3D2cm]} > > and replace it with the more intuitive MkIV syntax: > > \startplacefigure [title=3DA cow, reference=3Dfig:acow] > \externalfigure [cow] > \stopplacefigure Nice. I'll try to get around to wikifying this asap. > And refrain from using the [here, force] setting, otherwise > beginners will never grasp the concept of floats. True. And otherwise I'm not happy about what I said about floats - I just barely understand them myself and gaining that knowledge was hard work - so I'll rewrite that section and will come up with something else to put there. (Although floats with "here,force" still float, just less so. Been there, done that; now I know it is a feature, not a bug. Useful for a thesis, not so in my work.) > 6.4 Combinations > > Also arguable, but you might consider using the newer > > \startcombination [nx=3D3, ny=3D1] > =85 > > syntax. It's more contextish and easier to understand, in my > opinion. Furthermore, it's not covered in any of the manuals, as far > as I know. Nor the wiki, I'd never seen it before, although I've understood that more and more ConTeXt commands move towards the start ... stop syntax. Again, I'll try to get around to wikify this soonish (first I want to try it out, though). I've found before that I learn best by teaching others, for I will not teach anything I don't properly understand my way. Now I've already learned three new things, not bad. :-) Thanks for the comments! Mari ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________