From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/83517 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andres Conrado Montoya Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: About Hyphenation Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:28:34 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1479446887==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1374614998 9484 80.91.229.3 (23 Jul 2013 21:29:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 21:29:58 +0000 (UTC) To: ntg-context@ntg.nl Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Tue Jul 23 23:30:01 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1V1k9g-000619-GW for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 23:30:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54483101E9; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 23:29:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id ysgkWJ-G-H6G; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 23:29:31 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D94E2101E6; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 23:29:31 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 917C4101E6 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 23:29:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id vun0waUndKCC for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 23:29:02 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (filter3-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.71]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A765C101E3 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 23:29:02 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-lb0-x22a.google.com (mail-lb0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22a]) by filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id r6NLTFKS008417 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 23:29:15 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-lb0-f170.google.com with SMTP id u10so5249809lbi.1 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:29:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=4ZLEV1AqkOUlRO4/xVjg1jc6Iv73A3I7kzMoLtwUgpU=; b=Ci34qTXXo8SIXbbhoC/1er6v0JNxkFFQPDA94zdq60n5XOqRwTJESaXwdpMgPhbHn+ 2+PVUGCjlR7LcxJJ3GvljAz6EQKQ8Et8JmSxbaEkwB0fs6e1vJ9WHeFNQKBaugwVCzPM XZYZhLOkUIggcG8IOCuJn1/kDI1o1xOTsdUyYsGERlCB1jfut4qxM4hLkqjiOjl9CaQj Lp7zjbK/5/uarRgVdeeC8UtlN2DhuLMlwbwjEQ3pLDYVrA9yTg0Lc8KvliqwQu3VwC5t R8wMIYNX6qH+b5UzHBh8IQMOb/XvYraMbPb23ppTNXoPKDIpz+1g/PZp0Abyiu+aYVop uAuw== X-Received: by 10.152.22.42 with SMTP id a10mr15959660laf.30.1374614955311; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.112.154.131 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:28:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=2a00:1450:4010:c04::22a; country=IE X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 03K3VtfGB - 70e0ada7d60d - 20130723 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:83517 Archived-At: --===============1479446887== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0158b7941d47b504e2347c79 --089e0158b7941d47b504e2347c79 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi List, I am very grateful with you all. Thanks for all the teaching. Sorry if the message is too long. I have read in several places that the commands \doublehyphendemerits and \finalhyphendemerits are not a "real" way of dealing with the design issue of too many hyphens in a row and/or avoiding a hyphen at the end of a page. I have found that \doublehyphendemerits just avoids TWO hyphens in a row, but not three or four, etc., and \finalhyphendemerits just doesn't work. I have read the code, the wiki, the mail list, and the manuals, but with no success yet. I'm working with grid, and using a widow/orphan control macro found here on this list: ******************************************** \setupalign[verytolerant,stretch,lesshyphenation,hz,hanging] \startsetups[grid][correcto] \setups[*reset] \setpenalties\widowpenalties{1}{10000} \setpenalties\clubpenalties{1}{10000} \setpenalties\brokenpenalties{1}{20000} \stopsetups \doublehyphendemerits=3D20000 \finalhyphendemerits=3D20000 \setuplayout [backspace=3D10.3ex, width=3D62ex, topspace=3D10.3ex, height=3D124ex, header=3D1em, headerdistance=3D1em, footer=3D1em, footerdistance=3D2em, margindistance=3D1em, grid=3Dyes, setups=3Dcorrecto] ******************************************** As a book designer, one of my dreams is migrate all my work to ConTeXt, and stop using adobe products; I think ConTeXt is a very good design tool. However, this obstacle is frustrating that dream in part. I know that you may say "this hyphenation issue is a matter of taste! is not important!" but all the publishers I have worked with in the last 15 years have emphasized that rule over and over again. I'm Colombian, so, I design books mainly in spanish, and in spanish editions is a very common rule to avoid more than 2 hyphens in a row. I understand that there are similar rules in french, and I have read some discussions about it, but mostly the thread finishes with something similar to "use ragged right align and forget hyphens" (see http://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/msg68899.html)= . So, questions are: 1. Is there any definitive way of avoiding 2 or more hyphens on a row AND hyphens at the end of a page? 2. If is not, and it seems that is not (see http://latex-community.org/know-how/latex/55-latex-general/475-e-tex#line-b= reaking) how do you manage? Do you just let hyphens be? Do you avoid hyphens using \unhyphenated or \mbox by hand? No problem, if it's the standard solution, but I think there should be some mechanism to avoid (n+) hyphens on a row, something like \maxadjhyphens[2]. Is this impossible / too difficult? If it is, I'm sorry for bothering you. I just really want to work with ConTeXt. I have done a couple books for myself, to learn, but I want to take this into production, and this single issue, so insignificant you may see it, is very important for me, and I'm sure that other designers would find it very important too. Thank you all for your time. Andr=C3=A9s Conrado Montoya --089e0158b7941d47b504e2347c79 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi List, I am very grateful with you all. Thanks for all t= he teaching. Sorry if the message is too long.=C2=A0

I have re= ad in several places that the commands \doublehyphendemerits and \finalhyph= endemerits are not a "real" way of dealing with the design issue = of too many hyphens in a row and/or avoiding a hyphen at the end of a page.= I have found that \doublehyphendemerits just avoids TWO hyphens in a row, = but not three or four, etc., and \finalhyphendemerits just doesn't work= . I have read the code, the wiki, the mail list, and the manuals, but with = no success yet. I'm working with grid, and using a widow/orphan control= macro found here on this list:=C2=A0

********************************************
=
\setupalign[verytolerant,stretch,lesshyphenation,hz,hanging]

=C2=A0\startsetups[grid][correcto]
=C2= =A0 \setups[*reset]
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 \setpenalties\widowpenalties{1}{10000}
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 \setpenalties\clubpenalties{1}{10000}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 \setpe= nalties\brokenpenalties{1}{20000}
=C2=A0\stopsetups

\doublehyphendemerits=3D20000
\finalhyphendemerits=3D20000

\setuplayout
= [backspace=3D10.3ex,
= width=3D62ex,
topspace=3D10.3ex,<= /div>
height=3D124ex= ,
header=3D1em= ,
headerdistan= ce=3D1em,
footer=3D1em,
=
footerdistance=3D2e= m,
margindista= nce=3D1em,
grid=3Dyes,
setups=3Dcorrecto]
********************************************
As a book designer, one of my dreams is migrate all my work to ConTeXt= , and stop using adobe products; I think ConTeXt is a very good design tool= . However, this obstacle is frustrating that dream in part. I know that you= may say "this hyphenation issue is a matter of taste! is not importan= t!" but all the publishers I have worked with in the last 15 years hav= e emphasized that rule over and over again. I'm Colombian, so, I design= books mainly in spanish, and in spanish editions is a very common rule to = avoid more than 2 hyphens in a row. I understand that there are similar rul= es in french, and I have read some discussions about it, but mostly the thr= ead finishes with something similar to "use ragged right align and for= get hyphens" (see=C2=A0http://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/ms= g68899.html).

So, questions are:=C2=A0
1. Is there any defi= nitive way of avoiding 2 or more hyphens on a row AND hyphens at the end of= a page?
2. If is not, and it seems that is not (see=C2=A0http://latex-community.org/know-how/latex/55-latex-general/475= -e-tex#line-breaking)=C2=A0how do you manage? Do you just let hyphens b= e? Do you avoid hyphens using \unhyphenated or \mbox by hand? No problem, i= f it's the standard solution, but I think there should be some mechanis= m to avoid (n+) hyphens on a row, something like \maxadjhyphens[2]. Is this= impossible / too difficult? If it is, I'm sorry for bothering you. I j= ust really want to work with ConTeXt. I have done a couple books for myself= , to learn, but I want to take this into production, and this single issue,= so insignificant you may see it, is very important for me, and I'm sur= e that other designers would find it very important too.

Thank you all for your time.

=
Andr=C3=A9s Conrado Montoya

--089e0158b7941d47b504e2347c79-- --===============1479446887== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============1479446887==--