From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/83561 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mojca Miklavec Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Opening quotes problem with context. Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 17:09:56 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20130722114031.0304d899@localb.wexfordpress.net> <87zjtct36a.fsf@gmail.com> <20130727102944.4ebbc6bf@wexfordpress> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1374937830 24338 80.91.229.3 (27 Jul 2013 15:10:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 15:10:30 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sat Jul 27 17:10:30 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1V368c-000421-1W for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 17:10:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37895101F1; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 17:10:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id jhzbBF95AsGc; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 17:09:55 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38D2B101E4; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 17:09:55 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B41AE101E4 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 17:09:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Fekp3XjjM6-U for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 17:09:34 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (filter3-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.71]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 162D0101E3 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 17:09:33 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-wg0-x233.google.com (mail-wg0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::233]) by filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id r6RF9uWt009424 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 17:09:56 +0200 Original-Received: by mail-wg0-f51.google.com with SMTP id e12so1723411wgh.6 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:09:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=6NRtXIn8MZd1w5xxnSmSft/jCsfwF9+DTT+v7P5Qdhc=; b=RR4Wj4byHYENpQJm0d8mOn/SBwkC/o8gH+HBcCV2b7m4Aez9+zHcGFTzKrYpq+WD1/ y7z3txv2VD+H+gE4y0Y+sFbyE7mbbd8T2ATp0h2rbf1LTnlC3EM4ryQ4N1tL9Jc2sS2j k9KRLloXBuDOFuS26t6/+oelqJArt0ryUaMmsRmKgmCx27aEGO7fRJTAqAGAaAeSoJOR NHSDLAcC1ncHN5pFciVgKnh8jwQvhxDlxzH17n+vUjdNk47EH6wCn2H7NoCLyd7128Bs vVKo6FiLypw1mLfICkq+LBOBxZBwO523WYDgkoo+WPI9YRnJnDNair21x0GulJN3eeHx edKg== X-Received: by 10.194.173.225 with SMTP id bn1mr38194295wjc.6.1374937796392; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.217.114.202 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:09:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::233; country=IE X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 03K5r9UgO - 74e1542fe7aa - 20130727 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:83561 Archived-At: On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote: > >> I note that the plain TeX version of closing quotes, '' still works. > > It doesn't. You get two apostrophes (which usually happen to look like > a double quotation mark). I need to add that converting character 27 (') into apostrophe was considered a crucial functionality, so it was kept. Nobody can imagine getting the proper apostrophe on keyboard and its use is very common. On the other hand many languages use different quotation marks and using ``these'' is completely "americanocentric". On top, auto-replacement lead to inability to typeset the actual backtick (`) when it's needed. So yes, getting rid of `` replaced by quotation by default *was* an improvement. If you are worried about the number of strokes you can always configure your keyboard to give the quotation marks by pressing alt-gr+something (an equivalent effort of typing an uppercase letter). Or you can define \def\q#1{\quotation{#1}} The big advantage of \quotation{...} is that it automatically gives you the right quotation marks for the active language. And for me it's also convenient that I can easily switch which quotation marks are used (both guilemets and "double comma-style" are allowed in our grammar, and I sometimes change my mind about which ones should be used in the middle of the project). Or I could change the quoted text to become italic. Mojca PS: I'm sometimes mad at what TeX did. Every (La)TeX user read a (La)TeX tutorial at some point and nowadays probably 80% users in my country still use "\v{c}" (not being aware that they could type the Unicode characters the same way as they do in Word), either the wrong font encoding (OT1; without proper hyphenation and with weirdly composed glyphs) or the bitmap fonts, and the grammatically incorrect version of ``quotes''. This is what they learnt from manuals. In ConTeXt UTF-8 just works and \quotation{...} is a lot better than those weird ``artefacts''. ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________