* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV [not found] <mailman.2967.1609923358.1206.ntg-context@ntg.nl> @ 2021-01-11 15:08 ` Ivan Pešić 0 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Ivan Pešić @ 2021-01-11 15:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 18932 bytes --] One nice tool that I use for translation is https://po4a.org/index.php.en I used it to translate (and maintain) complete Vim documentation. It could be adapted to work with Context (there is already a Latex module) Regards, Ivan сре, 6. јан 2021. 12:56 <ntg-context-request@ntg.nl> је написао/ла: > Send ntg-context mailing list submissions to > ntg-context@ntg.nl > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ntg-context-request@ntg.nl > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ntg-context-owner@ntg.nl > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ntg-context digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV > (Bruce Horrocks) > 2. Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV > (Joaquín Ataz López) > 3. Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV > (Augusto Stoffel) > 4. Re: Randomize order of blocks (Otared Kavian) > 5. Re: Randomize order of blocks (Otared Kavian) > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Bruce Horrocks <ntg@scorecrow.com> > To: "ntg-context@ntg.nl" <ntg-context@ntg.nl> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 00:36:23 +0000 > Subject: Re: [NTG-context] A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV > > > > On 5 Jan 2021, at 20:31, Garulfo <garulfo@azules.eu> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I saw that Mojca created a directory > > https://github.com/contextgarden/not-so-short-introduction-to-context > > > > Joaquín, if you agree, and if > > - you provide me with the spanish + english source codes > > - Mojca provide you and me with github write access (garulfogb account) > > > > i could : > > 1/ push the current code > > 2/ start to write a github wiki page (+ link on contextgarden) to > describe : > > - for you : how to update from your own computer (the official source) > > - for any user : how to use git to get the source + link to this list > for discussion. > > > > Does anybody has a guide about "how to set up a documentation > translation project with git ?". > > One requirement will probably to define how propositions are officially > validated. Does it requires Joaquín to learn how to use git ? Can we just > work by sending files (or patches) to Joaquín who will update with a single > git command ? > > I think we need to be really clear about what we want to achieve here. > > 1) Is it just making the source plus the PDF available for download? If so > then there are plenty of simpler ways to do that than using Git. > > 2) If it is to gather feedback on things like typos then we don't need > Git. For example I spotted a missing ']' in the English translation so all > I need is a way to submit a 'bug report' not access to the source. > > 3) So what is left? To provide a way for translators to be notified of > changes to the original? To provide a collaboration mechanism for > significant changes to the document? > > I don't see that Git adds much in the way of value unless Joaquín and the > translators are already very familiar with it -- because the learning curve > is very steep and recovering from mistakes (made to the repository itself > rather than to the document content) can sometimes be extremely difficult. > > -- > Bruce Horrocks > Hampshire, UK > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Joaquín Ataz López" <jal@um.es> > To: ntg-context@ntg.nl > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 06:26:34 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NTG-context] A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV > I don't really know anything about git, so I can't give my opinion about > what is or isn't convenient to do. Certainly to report bugs in my text I > don't think it takes anything more than an e-mail to send them to me. > Having a repository can be useful to keep a version that is always up to > date; but that, on the other hand, would force me to be continually > modifying the text, which in principle is not my intention. I do not > exclude that there will be other versions in the future, but for the > moment this is not part of my plans. And if there were other versions, > it would be more to add some chapter; mainly I think that the most > important material that is missing is the one related to XML, Lua and > Metapost, that is: the three additional languages in which a ConTeXt > document can be written. But I am far from being able to write anything > about any of those three aspects. Some member of the list has offered to > help me with it, but not immediately (we all have a lot of work). > > The original idea, I think, was to provide a platform that would allow > different collaborators to translate the text into different languages. > Whether or not git is the best solution for that purpose, I really don't > know. > > What I would appreciate is that guide on "how to set up a documentation > translation project with git? that Garulfo proposes. > > El 5/1/21 a las 21:31, Garulfo escribió: > > Hi all, > > > > I saw that Mojca created a directory > > https://github.com/contextgarden/not-so-short-introduction-to-context > > > > Joaquín, if you agree, and if > > - you provide me with the spanish + english source codes > > - Mojca provide you and me with github write access (garulfogb account) > > > > i could : > > 1/ push the current code > > 2/ start to write a github wiki page (+ link on contextgarden) to > > describe : > > - for you : how to update from your own computer (the official source) > > - for any user : how to use git to get the source + link to this list > > for discussion. > > > > Does anybody has a guide about "how to set up a documentation > > translation project with git ?". > > One requirement will probably to define how propositions are > > officially validated. Does it requires Joaquín to learn how to use git > > ? Can we just work by sending files (or patches) to Joaquín who will > > update with a single git command ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le 03/01/2021 à 19:08, Hans Hagen a écrit : > >> On 1/3/2021 5:42 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote: > >>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 15:37, Garulfo wrote: > >>>> > >>>> In oct 2020, a message proposed to create a GitHub/GitLab > >>>> repository (or > >>>> even organization) for this so that anybody can help translating it > >>>> into > >>>> other languages: > >>>> https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2020/099789.html > >>> > >>> If you want to see it under > >>> https://github.com/contextgarden/ > >>> just propose the repository name and list the usernames for those who > >>> should initially have access. > >> also because that would fit well into the plans for a bunch of > >> context related repositories > >> > >> Hans > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE > >> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands > >> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > >> > >> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an > >> entry to the Wiki! > >> > >> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > >> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > >> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > >> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > >> wiki : http://contextgarden.net > >> > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > >> > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry > > to the Wiki! > > > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > -- > Joaquín Ataz López > Derecho Civil > Universidad de Murcia > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Augusto Stoffel <arstoffel@gmail.com> > To: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2021 08:17:41 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NTG-context] A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV > Hi Joaquín, > > Here is a small suggestion, which would have a few different uses. The > following link, which I copied from the index, should take you to the > definition of \vbox: > > > https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_eng.pdf#%5B%7B%22num%22%3A117%2C%22gen%22%3A0%7D%2C%7B%22name%22%3A%22Fit%22%7D%5D > > This works at least in some browsers, or by passing the stuff after # > as a suitable command-line argument to some PDF viewers. > > So, it would be really nice to make those named destinations stable and > readable, for instance > > https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_eng.pdf#vbox > > I suspect this is either a switch you turn on in ConTeXt, or something > that would still need to be implemented as a feature. > > Best, > Augusto > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 12:00 AM Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> > wrote: > > > > > Am 03.01.2021 um 22:24 schrieb Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>: > > > > > > On 1/3/2021 10:02 PM, BPJ wrote: > > >> I understand that and it is all well and good. I am wondering if > > there already is *another* text which presupposes basic knowledge of > > TeX and general knowledge of LaTeX, perhaps in a by-topic style. > > > I think this relates to the question how someone comes to tex and > > then to context. Are tex macro packages used alongside and such? Are > > there 'from word/office to tex' or reverse manuals? What could be a > > motivation to write one. > > > > I guess most ConTeXt users migrated from LaTeX at some point, so > > that guide would really make sense. But I can’t write it either, > > even if I’m also working with LaTeX (but just as a user of one > > special class). > > > > If I run into a problem in LaTeX that I know to solve in ConTeXt, > > the approach is never right. > > > > I think the similarities of LaTeX and ConTeXt are mostly misleading, > > you’re better off trying to forget everything and start anew. > > > > In LaTeX most problems are solved with “use this or that > > package”, without the need to understand the commands and settings > > involved, while in ConTeXt most problems are solved with > > \setupsomething[somekey=somevalue]. > > > > Of course it helps to understand basic TeX stuff – but you’re > > not supposed to use (plain) TeX commands in LaTeX, while it is or was > > much more usual in ConTeXt. > > > > Writing my book I have users of text processors (Word/LibreOffice) > > and layout applications (InDesign etc.) in mind, even if I assume > > that most readers (if I’ll ever publish it...) will come from LaTeX. > > > > > > > > > So, one way out could be to have some collection of tips / > > suggestions and turn that into a kind of manual. Something to do by > > those who make some transition or use alongside. The wiki is the > > place start with that. > > > > > > So .. up to users. > > > > Yes, and that means: up to users migrating from LaTeX and > > documenting their struggles. > > > > Hraban > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an > > entry to the Wiki! > > > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Otared Kavian <otared@gmail.com> > To: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 09:41:13 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NTG-context] Randomize order of blocks > Hi Jairo, > > One can indeed make quizzes and exams with randomized order of problems, > randomized values and even randomized names of functions and variables. > I have some examples which I have been using for several years (they are > useful especially in these days of giving exams online…): I can send them > to you as they are, or if you tell me what kind of problems you want, then > I can adapt my examples before sending them to you. > > Best regards: Otared > > > On 5 Jan 2021, at 17:18, Jairo A. del Rio <jairoadelrio6@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Hi, list. > > > > Some time ago I realized ConTeXt has "blocks" which allow one to make > quizzes, exams and related with ease. However, I want to know if there's an > option to randomize their order when printed. Thank you in advance. > > > > Jairo > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry > to the Wiki! > > > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Otared Kavian <otared@gmail.com> > To: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 09:55:54 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NTG-context] Randomize order of blocks > Following up my previous message, here is an example: > > %% begin shuffled list of exercises > \setuprandomize[2021] > > \startluacode > function shuffle(tableau) > local maxsize, t, tt > maxsize = #tableau > tt = {} > t = {} > for i = 1, maxsize do > t[i] = {} > t[i]["columnOne"] = tableau[i] > t[i]["columnTwo"] = math.random(1,100*maxsize) > end > table.sort(t, function(a,b) return a.columnTwo < > b.columnTwo end) > for i = 1, maxsize do > tt[i] = t[i]["columnOne"] > end > return tt > end > \stopluacode > > % We define three arrays > % with the names, the functions and their derivatives > % One could also add a ListOfVariables... > > \startluacode > > ListOfNames = { > "f", > "g", > "h", > "u", > "v", > "F", > "G", > "H", > } > > ListOfFunctions = { > "\\cos(x^2)", > "x\\sin(x)", > "\\tan(x)", > "x^3 - 3x^2 + 1", > "\\frac{1}{1 + x^2}", > "\\sin(\\log(x))", > } > > ListOfDerivatives = { > "-2x\\sin(x^2)", > "x\\cos(x) + \\sin(x)", > "1 + \\tan(x)^2", > "3x^2 - 6x", > "\\frac{-2x}{(1 + x^2)^2}", > "\\frac{\\cos(\\log(x))}{x}", > } > > \stopluacode > > \starttext > > % We define a buffer and a shuffled list of integers > > \startbuffer[test-derivatives] > \startluacode > ShuffledList = shuffle({1,2,3,4,5,6}) > \stopluacode > > Let $\cldcontext{ListOfNames[ShuffledList[\recurselevel]]}(x) := > \cldcontext{ListOfFunctions[ShuffledList[\recurselevel]]}$. Prove that > \startformula > \cldcontext{ListOfNames[ShuffledList[\recurselevel]]}'(x) = > \cldcontext{ListOfDerivatives[ShuffledList[\recurselevel]]} > \stopformula > \stopbuffer > > \dorecurse{6}{\blank[medium]{\bf Exercise #1.} > \getbuffer[test-derivatives] > } > > \stoptext > > %% end shuffled list of exercises > > > > On 6 Jan 2021, at 09:41, Otared Kavian <otared@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi Jairo, > > > > One can indeed make quizzes and exams with randomized order of problems, > randomized values and even randomized names of functions and variables. > > I have some examples which I have been using for several years (they are > useful especially in these days of giving exams online…): I can send them > to you as they are, or if you tell me what kind of problems you want, then > I can adapt my examples before sending them to you. > > > > Best regards: Otared > > > >> On 5 Jan 2021, at 17:18, Jairo A. del Rio <jairoadelrio6@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> Hi, list. > >> > >> Some time ago I realized ConTeXt has "blocks" which allow one to make > quizzes, exams and related with ease. However, I want to know if there's an > option to randomize their order when printed. Thank you in advance. > >> > >> Jairo > >> > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > >> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry > to the Wiki! > >> > >> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > >> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > >> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > >> wiki : http://contextgarden.net > >> > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to > the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 27782 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV @ 2021-01-03 9:45 Joaquín Ataz López 2021-01-03 10:32 ` Saša Janiška ` (5 more replies) 0 siblings, 6 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Joaquín Ataz López @ 2021-01-03 9:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Hello to all: Two months ago I informed to the list that I had written an introduction in Spanish to ConTeXt Mark IV. This interested several people, and in order to increase their potential audience, a member of this list (native English speaker) has proceeded to translate my text into English. It is precisely the members of this list who need no introduction at all, but it can sometimes be useful to help someone get started with the fascinating typesetting system that is ConTeXt. As for the English translation, I have made some small changes to the Spanish version, so anyone who understands Spanish and prefers to read it in its original language can download the new version: Both versions are available at the following links - Spanish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_esp.pdf - Engilish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_eng.pdf Soon I will send both texts, with their source files, to the documentation section of the CTAN repository. -- Joaquín Ataz López Derecho Civil Universidad de Murcia ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 9:45 Joaquín Ataz López @ 2021-01-03 10:32 ` Saša Janiška 2021-01-03 14:37 ` Garulfo 2021-01-03 10:40 ` Alain Delmotte ` (4 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread From: Saša Janiška @ 2021-01-03 10:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 10:45:00 +0100 Joaquín Ataz López <jal@um.es> wrote: Hiya Joaquín, > It is precisely the members of this list who need no introduction at > all, but it can sometimes be useful to help someone get started with > the fascinating typesetting system that is ConTeXt. Well, I'm the one who (desperately) need it and I'm delighted. :-D Thanks a lot for providing such a wonderful "introduction" popularizing ConTeXt!! Sincerely, Gour -- Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth. ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 10:32 ` Saša Janiška @ 2021-01-03 14:37 ` Garulfo 2021-01-03 16:42 ` Mojca Miklavec 0 siblings, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread From: Garulfo @ 2021-01-03 14:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context @Joaquín + english translator : many thanks for this great and useful contribution to ConTeXt community dev. Impressive. Being interested into contributing to a french version, what would be your prefered way ? In oct 2020, a message proposed to create a GitHub/GitLab repository (or even organization) for this so that anybody can help translating it into other languages: https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2020/099789.html Le 03/01/2021 à 11:32, Saša Janiška a écrit : > On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 10:45:00 +0100 > Joaquín Ataz López <jal@um.es> wrote: > > Hiya Joaquín, > >> It is precisely the members of this list who need no introduction at >> all, but it can sometimes be useful to help someone get started with >> the fascinating typesetting system that is ConTeXt. > > Well, I'm the one who (desperately) need it and I'm delighted. :-D > > Thanks a lot for providing such a wonderful "introduction" popularizing ConTeXt!! > > > Sincerely, > Gour > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 14:37 ` Garulfo @ 2021-01-03 16:42 ` Mojca Miklavec 2021-01-03 18:08 ` Hans Hagen 2021-01-03 18:56 ` Joaquín Ataz López 0 siblings, 2 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Mojca Miklavec @ 2021-01-03 16:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 15:37, Garulfo wrote: > > In oct 2020, a message proposed to create a GitHub/GitLab repository (or > even organization) for this so that anybody can help translating it into > other languages: > https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2020/099789.html If you want to see it under https://github.com/contextgarden/ just propose the repository name and list the usernames for those who should initially have access. Mojca ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 16:42 ` Mojca Miklavec @ 2021-01-03 18:08 ` Hans Hagen 2021-01-05 20:31 ` Garulfo 2021-01-03 18:56 ` Joaquín Ataz López 1 sibling, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2021-01-03 18:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Mojca Miklavec On 1/3/2021 5:42 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote: > On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 15:37, Garulfo wrote: >> >> In oct 2020, a message proposed to create a GitHub/GitLab repository (or >> even organization) for this so that anybody can help translating it into >> other languages: >> https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2020/099789.html > > If you want to see it under > https://github.com/contextgarden/ > just propose the repository name and list the usernames for those who > should initially have access. also because that would fit well into the plans for a bunch of context related repositories Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 18:08 ` Hans Hagen @ 2021-01-05 20:31 ` Garulfo 2021-01-06 0:36 ` Bruce Horrocks ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Garulfo @ 2021-01-05 20:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context Hi all, I saw that Mojca created a directory https://github.com/contextgarden/not-so-short-introduction-to-context Joaquín, if you agree, and if - you provide me with the spanish + english source codes - Mojca provide you and me with github write access (garulfogb account) i could : 1/ push the current code 2/ start to write a github wiki page (+ link on contextgarden) to describe : - for you : how to update from your own computer (the official source) - for any user : how to use git to get the source + link to this list for discussion. Does anybody has a guide about "how to set up a documentation translation project with git ?". One requirement will probably to define how propositions are officially validated. Does it requires Joaquín to learn how to use git ? Can we just work by sending files (or patches) to Joaquín who will update with a single git command ? Le 03/01/2021 à 19:08, Hans Hagen a écrit : > On 1/3/2021 5:42 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote: >> On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 15:37, Garulfo wrote: >>> >>> In oct 2020, a message proposed to create a GitHub/GitLab repository (or >>> even organization) for this so that anybody can help translating it into >>> other languages: >>> https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2020/099789.html >> >> If you want to see it under >> https://github.com/contextgarden/ >> just propose the repository name and list the usernames for those who >> should initially have access. > also because that would fit well into the plans for a bunch of context > related repositories > > Hans > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE > Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands > tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry > to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-05 20:31 ` Garulfo @ 2021-01-06 0:36 ` Bruce Horrocks 2021-01-06 5:26 ` Joaquín Ataz López ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Bruce Horrocks @ 2021-01-06 0:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context > On 5 Jan 2021, at 20:31, Garulfo <garulfo@azules.eu> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I saw that Mojca created a directory > https://github.com/contextgarden/not-so-short-introduction-to-context > > Joaquín, if you agree, and if > - you provide me with the spanish + english source codes > - Mojca provide you and me with github write access (garulfogb account) > > i could : > 1/ push the current code > 2/ start to write a github wiki page (+ link on contextgarden) to describe : > - for you : how to update from your own computer (the official source) > - for any user : how to use git to get the source + link to this list for discussion. > > Does anybody has a guide about "how to set up a documentation translation project with git ?". > One requirement will probably to define how propositions are officially validated. Does it requires Joaquín to learn how to use git ? Can we just work by sending files (or patches) to Joaquín who will update with a single git command ? I think we need to be really clear about what we want to achieve here. 1) Is it just making the source plus the PDF available for download? If so then there are plenty of simpler ways to do that than using Git. 2) If it is to gather feedback on things like typos then we don't need Git. For example I spotted a missing ']' in the English translation so all I need is a way to submit a 'bug report' not access to the source. 3) So what is left? To provide a way for translators to be notified of changes to the original? To provide a collaboration mechanism for significant changes to the document? I don't see that Git adds much in the way of value unless Joaquín and the translators are already very familiar with it -- because the learning curve is very steep and recovering from mistakes (made to the repository itself rather than to the document content) can sometimes be extremely difficult. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire, UK ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-05 20:31 ` Garulfo 2021-01-06 0:36 ` Bruce Horrocks @ 2021-01-06 5:26 ` Joaquín Ataz López 2021-01-06 12:08 ` Hans Hagen 2021-07-28 14:33 ` Kevin Vigouroux via ntg-context 3 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Joaquín Ataz López @ 2021-01-06 5:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context I don't really know anything about git, so I can't give my opinion about what is or isn't convenient to do. Certainly to report bugs in my text I don't think it takes anything more than an e-mail to send them to me. Having a repository can be useful to keep a version that is always up to date; but that, on the other hand, would force me to be continually modifying the text, which in principle is not my intention. I do not exclude that there will be other versions in the future, but for the moment this is not part of my plans. And if there were other versions, it would be more to add some chapter; mainly I think that the most important material that is missing is the one related to XML, Lua and Metapost, that is: the three additional languages in which a ConTeXt document can be written. But I am far from being able to write anything about any of those three aspects. Some member of the list has offered to help me with it, but not immediately (we all have a lot of work). The original idea, I think, was to provide a platform that would allow different collaborators to translate the text into different languages. Whether or not git is the best solution for that purpose, I really don't know. What I would appreciate is that guide on "how to set up a documentation translation project with git? that Garulfo proposes. El 5/1/21 a las 21:31, Garulfo escribió: > Hi all, > > I saw that Mojca created a directory > https://github.com/contextgarden/not-so-short-introduction-to-context > > Joaquín, if you agree, and if > - you provide me with the spanish + english source codes > - Mojca provide you and me with github write access (garulfogb account) > > i could : > 1/ push the current code > 2/ start to write a github wiki page (+ link on contextgarden) to > describe : > - for you : how to update from your own computer (the official source) > - for any user : how to use git to get the source + link to this list > for discussion. > > Does anybody has a guide about "how to set up a documentation > translation project with git ?". > One requirement will probably to define how propositions are > officially validated. Does it requires Joaquín to learn how to use git > ? Can we just work by sending files (or patches) to Joaquín who will > update with a single git command ? > > > > > > > > Le 03/01/2021 à 19:08, Hans Hagen a écrit : >> On 1/3/2021 5:42 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote: >>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 15:37, Garulfo wrote: >>>> >>>> In oct 2020, a message proposed to create a GitHub/GitLab >>>> repository (or >>>> even organization) for this so that anybody can help translating it >>>> into >>>> other languages: >>>> https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2020/099789.html >>> >>> If you want to see it under >>> https://github.com/contextgarden/ >>> just propose the repository name and list the usernames for those who >>> should initially have access. >> also because that would fit well into the plans for a bunch of >> context related repositories >> >> Hans >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE >> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands >> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an >> entry to the Wiki! >> >> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / >> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context >> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net >> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ >> wiki : http://contextgarden.net >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ >> > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry > to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > -- Joaquín Ataz López Derecho Civil Universidad de Murcia ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-05 20:31 ` Garulfo 2021-01-06 0:36 ` Bruce Horrocks 2021-01-06 5:26 ` Joaquín Ataz López @ 2021-01-06 12:08 ` Hans Hagen 2021-07-28 14:33 ` Kevin Vigouroux via ntg-context 3 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2021-01-06 12:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Garulfo On 1/5/2021 9:31 PM, Garulfo wrote: > Hi all, > > I saw that Mojca created a directory > https://github.com/contextgarden/not-so-short-introduction-to-context > > Joaquín, if you agree, and if > - you provide me with the spanish + english source codes > - Mojca provide you and me with github write access (garulfogb account) > > i could : > 1/ push the current code > 2/ start to write a github wiki page (+ link on contextgarden) to > describe : > - for you : how to update from your own computer (the official source) > - for any user : how to use git to get the source + link to this list > for discussion. > > Does anybody has a guide about "how to set up a documentation > translation project with git ?". > One requirement will probably to define how propositions are officially > validated. Does it requires Joaquín to learn how to use git ? Can we > just work by sending files (or patches) to Joaquín who will update with > a single git command ? It's mainly about archiving, right? Those who write and maintain decide to use the repos in whatever way. (Personally I only use the gardens git repos for archiving and occasionally just watching what got changed. I don't even know (or care) how to fetch a specific version other than the latest right now. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-05 20:31 ` Garulfo ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2021-01-06 12:08 ` Hans Hagen @ 2021-07-28 14:33 ` Kevin Vigouroux via ntg-context 2021-07-28 19:11 ` Kevin Vigouroux via ntg-context 3 siblings, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread From: Kevin Vigouroux via ntg-context @ 2021-07-28 14:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context; +Cc: Kevin Vigouroux I am not a translator but I think that working from XLIFF documents would make the translation a bit easier. XLIFF makes it possible to follow the translation process, at least partially. For example, if the translation tools implement the "Change Tracking Extension" module defined in the latest XLIFF specification (v2.1), you can track the status of elements. The "property" attribute can indicate a new level: for example, the translator who changed the "state" (XLIFF attribute) of the translation: initial, translated, reviewed, final. [1] https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=xliff [2] http://docs.oasis-open.org/xliff/xliff-core/v2.1/xliff-core-v2.1.pdf Unfortunately, translators would need to use translation tools based on the latest XLIFF specification (v2) to take advantage of this. However, someone will eventually be able to use the tools at their disposal. Garulfo <garulfo@azules.eu> writes: > Does anybody has a guide about "how to set up a documentation > translation project with git ?". > One requirement will probably to define how propositions are > officially validated. Does it requires Joaquín to learn how to use git > ? Can we just work by sending files (or patches) to Joaquín who will > update with a single git command ? -- Best regards, Kevin Vigouroux ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-07-28 14:33 ` Kevin Vigouroux via ntg-context @ 2021-07-28 19:11 ` Kevin Vigouroux via ntg-context 0 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Kevin Vigouroux via ntg-context @ 2021-07-28 19:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context; +Cc: Kevin Vigouroux Here is an example to clarify my previous comment. #+BEGIN_SRC xml <xliff xmlns="urn:oasis:names:tc:xliff:document:2.0" xmlns="urn:oasis:names:tc:xliff:changetracking:2.0" version="2.1" srcLang="en" trgLang="fr"> <file id="f1"> <unit id="u1"> <ctr:changeTrack> <ctr:revisions appliesTo="segment" currentVersion="r1"> <ctr:revision author="Frank" datetime="2021-27-01T11:00:00+2:00" version="r1"> <ctr:item property="state">reviewed</ctr:item> </ctr:revision> <ctr:revision author="Bob" datetime="2021-07-01T15:00:00+2:00" version="r2"> <ctr:item property="state">translated</ctr:item> </ctr:revision> </ctr:revisions> <ctr:revisions appliesTo="target" currentVersion="r1"> <ctr:revision author="Bob" datetime="2021-07-01T15:00:00+2:00" version="r1"> <ctr:item property="content">Bonjour</ctr:item> </ctr:revision> </ctr:revisions> </ctr:changeTrack> <segment state="reviewed"> <source>Hello</source> <target>Bonjour</target> </segment> </unit> </file> </xliff> #+END_SRC -- Best regards, Kevin Vigouroux ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 16:42 ` Mojca Miklavec 2021-01-03 18:08 ` Hans Hagen @ 2021-01-03 18:56 ` Joaquín Ataz López 1 sibling, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Joaquín Ataz López @ 2021-01-03 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context I think the creation of the repository is a good idea and I suggest the name "introCTX-MkiV". I could provide the source files (in Spanish and English) and eventually clarify any doubt that the various translators had about the meaning of the original. It should also be taken into account that in the original there are some fragments or examples designed for a Spanish cultural field that, outside it, do not make much sense. In this regard, the English translation has the merit of adapting these fragments (instead of translating them) or deleting them, as the case may be. What I don't think is to coordinate the repository: I have never worked on collective projects and I hardly know how github works El 3/1/21 a las 17:42, Mojca Miklavec escribió: > On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 15:37, Garulfo wrote: >> In oct 2020, a message proposed to create a GitHub/GitLab repository (or >> even organization) for this so that anybody can help translating it into >> other languages: >> https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2020/099789.html > If you want to see it under > https://github.com/contextgarden/ > just propose the repository name and list the usernames for those who > should initially have access. > > Mojca > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ -- Joaquín Ataz López Derecho Civil Universidad de Murcia ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 9:45 Joaquín Ataz López 2021-01-03 10:32 ` Saša Janiška @ 2021-01-03 10:40 ` Alain Delmotte 2021-01-03 18:42 ` BPJ ` (3 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Alain Delmotte @ 2021-01-03 10:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/html, Size: 2101 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 9:45 Joaquín Ataz López 2021-01-03 10:32 ` Saša Janiška 2021-01-03 10:40 ` Alain Delmotte @ 2021-01-03 18:42 ` BPJ 2021-01-03 19:00 ` Joaquín Ataz López 2021-01-03 21:27 ` denis.maier ` (2 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread From: BPJ @ 2021-01-03 18:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2042 bytes --] This is a great resource which I am at the moment enjoying to read but I can't help wondering if there is a text aimed at those who already know LaTeX and know the basics of TeX describing ConTeXt in terms of differences (and similarities) between the two, and in particular the gotchas. -- Better --help|less than helpless Den sön 3 jan. 2021 10:48Joaquín Ataz López <jal@um.es> skrev: > Hello to all: > > Two months ago I informed to the list that I had written an introduction > in Spanish to ConTeXt Mark IV. This interested several people, and in > order to increase their potential audience, a member of this list > (native English speaker) has proceeded to translate my text into English. > > It is precisely the members of this list who need no introduction at > all, but it can sometimes be useful to help someone get started with the > fascinating typesetting system that is ConTeXt. > > As for the English translation, I have made some small changes to the > Spanish version, so anyone who understands Spanish and prefers to read > it in its original language can download the new version: > > Both versions are available at the following links > > - Spanish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_esp.pdf > > - Engilish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_eng.pdf > > Soon I will send both texts, with their source files, to the > documentation section of the CTAN repository. > > > -- > Joaquín Ataz López > Derecho Civil > Universidad de Murcia > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to > the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3168 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 18:42 ` BPJ @ 2021-01-03 19:00 ` Joaquín Ataz López 2021-01-03 21:02 ` BPJ 0 siblings, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread From: Joaquín Ataz López @ 2021-01-03 19:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3030 bytes --] I do not know if I have been able to do this, but although there are some references to LaTeX, I have tried to write a totally independent text, which does not require knowledge of LaTeX or TeX to be understood. El 3/1/21 a las 19:42, BPJ escribió: > This is a great resource which I am at the moment enjoying to read but > I can't help wondering if there is a text aimed at those who already > know LaTeX and know the basics of TeX describing ConTeXt in terms of > differences (and similarities) between the two, and in particular the > gotchas. > > -- > Better --help|less than helpless > > Den sön 3 jan. 2021 10:48Joaquín Ataz López <jal@um.es > <mailto:jal@um.es>> skrev: > > Hello to all: > > Two months ago I informed to the list that I had written an > introduction > in Spanish to ConTeXt Mark IV. This interested several people, and in > order to increase their potential audience, a member of this list > (native English speaker) has proceeded to translate my text into > English. > > It is precisely the members of this list who need no introduction at > all, but it can sometimes be useful to help someone get started > with the > fascinating typesetting system that is ConTeXt. > > As for the English translation, I have made some small changes to the > Spanish version, so anyone who understands Spanish and prefers to > read > it in its original language can download the new version: > > Both versions are available at the following links > > - Spanish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_esp.pdf > > - Engilish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_eng.pdf > > Soon I will send both texts, with their source files, to the > documentation section of the CTAN repository. > > > -- > Joaquín Ataz López > Derecho Civil > Universidad de Murcia > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an > entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl <mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl> / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ -- Joaquín Ataz López Derecho Civil Universidad de Murcia [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 5988 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 19:00 ` Joaquín Ataz López @ 2021-01-03 21:02 ` BPJ 2021-01-03 21:11 ` denis.maier 2021-01-03 21:24 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: BPJ @ 2021-01-03 21:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3808 bytes --] I understand that and it is all well and good. I am wondering if there already is *another* text which presupposes basic knowledge of TeX and general knowledge of LaTeX, perhaps in a by-topic style. -- Better --help|less than helpless Den sön 3 jan. 2021 20:04Joaquín Ataz López <jal@um.es> skrev: > I do not know if I have been able to do this, but although there are some > references to LaTeX, I have tried to write a totally independent text, > which does not require knowledge of LaTeX or TeX to be understood. > El 3/1/21 a las 19:42, BPJ escribió: > > This is a great resource which I am at the moment enjoying to read but I > can't help wondering if there is a text aimed at those who already know > LaTeX and know the basics of TeX describing ConTeXt in terms of differences > (and similarities) between the two, and in particular the gotchas. > > -- > Better --help|less than helpless > > Den sön 3 jan. 2021 10:48Joaquín Ataz López <jal@um.es> skrev: > >> Hello to all: >> >> Two months ago I informed to the list that I had written an introduction >> in Spanish to ConTeXt Mark IV. This interested several people, and in >> order to increase their potential audience, a member of this list >> (native English speaker) has proceeded to translate my text into English. >> >> It is precisely the members of this list who need no introduction at >> all, but it can sometimes be useful to help someone get started with the >> fascinating typesetting system that is ConTeXt. >> >> As for the English translation, I have made some small changes to the >> Spanish version, so anyone who understands Spanish and prefers to read >> it in its original language can download the new version: >> >> Both versions are available at the following links >> >> - Spanish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_esp.pdf >> >> - Engilish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_eng.pdf >> >> Soon I will send both texts, with their source files, to the >> documentation section of the CTAN repository. >> >> >> -- >> Joaquín Ataz López >> Derecho Civil >> Universidad de Murcia >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ >> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to >> the Wiki! >> >> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / >> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context >> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net >> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ >> wiki : http://contextgarden.net >> >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ >> > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > Joaquín Ataz López > Derecho Civil > Universidad de Murcia > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to > the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 7205 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 21:02 ` BPJ @ 2021-01-03 21:11 ` denis.maier 2021-01-03 21:25 ` Hans Hagen 2021-01-03 21:24 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread From: denis.maier @ 2021-01-03 21:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context, bpj Well, there's a document called "LaTeX in proper context", but that's from a different era and nowhere near exhaustive... ________________________________________ Von: ntg-context <ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl> im Auftrag von BPJ <bpj@melroch.se> Gesendet: Sonntag, 3. Januar 2021 22:02:22 An: mailing list for ConTeXt users Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV I understand that and it is all well and good. I am wondering if there already is *another* text which presupposes basic knowledge of TeX and general knowledge of LaTeX, perhaps in a by-topic style. -- Better --help|less than helpless Den sön 3 jan. 2021 20:04Joaquín Ataz López <jal@um.es<mailto:jal@um.es>> skrev: I do not know if I have been able to do this, but although there are some references to LaTeX, I have tried to write a totally independent text, which does not require knowledge of LaTeX or TeX to be understood. El 3/1/21 a las 19:42, BPJ escribió: This is a great resource which I am at the moment enjoying to read but I can't help wondering if there is a text aimed at those who already know LaTeX and know the basics of TeX describing ConTeXt in terms of differences (and similarities) between the two, and in particular the gotchas. -- Better --help|less than helpless Den sön 3 jan. 2021 10:48Joaquín Ataz López <jal@um.es<mailto:jal@um.es>> skrev: Hello to all: Two months ago I informed to the list that I had written an introduction in Spanish to ConTeXt Mark IV. This interested several people, and in order to increase their potential audience, a member of this list (native English speaker) has proceeded to translate my text into English. It is precisely the members of this list who need no introduction at all, but it can sometimes be useful to help someone get started with the fascinating typesetting system that is ConTeXt. As for the English translation, I have made some small changes to the Spanish version, so anyone who understands Spanish and prefers to read it in its original language can download the new version: Both versions are available at the following links - Spanish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_esp.pdf - Engilish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_eng.pdf Soon I will send both texts, with their source files, to the documentation section of the CTAN repository. -- Joaquín Ataz López Derecho Civil Universidad de Murcia ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl<mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl> / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl<mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl> / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ -- Joaquín Ataz López Derecho Civil Universidad de Murcia ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl<mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl> / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 21:11 ` denis.maier @ 2021-01-03 21:25 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2021-01-03 21:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, denis.maier, bpj On 1/3/2021 10:11 PM, denis.maier@ub.unibe.ch wrote: > Well, there's a document called "LaTeX in proper context", but that's from a different era and nowhere near exhaustive... and not that valid any more either i think Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 21:02 ` BPJ 2021-01-03 21:11 ` denis.maier @ 2021-01-03 21:24 ` Hans Hagen 2021-01-03 22:59 ` Henning Hraban Ramm 1 sibling, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2021-01-03 21:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bpj, mailing list for ConTeXt users On 1/3/2021 10:02 PM, BPJ wrote: > I understand that and it is all well and good. I am wondering if there > already is *another* text which presupposes basic knowledge of TeX and > general knowledge of LaTeX, perhaps in a by-topic style. I think this relates to the question how someone comes to tex and then to context. Are tex macro packages used alongside and such? Are there 'from word/office to tex' or reverse manuals? What could be a motivation to write one. So, one way out could be to have some collection of tips / suggestions and turn that into a kind of manual. Something to do by those who make some transition or use alongside. The wiki is the place start with that. So .. up to users. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 21:24 ` Hans Hagen @ 2021-01-03 22:59 ` Henning Hraban Ramm 2021-01-04 13:18 ` Ulrike Fischer 2021-01-06 7:17 ` Augusto Stoffel 0 siblings, 2 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Henning Hraban Ramm @ 2021-01-03 22:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users > Am 03.01.2021 um 22:24 schrieb Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>: > > On 1/3/2021 10:02 PM, BPJ wrote: >> I understand that and it is all well and good. I am wondering if there already is *another* text which presupposes basic knowledge of TeX and general knowledge of LaTeX, perhaps in a by-topic style. > I think this relates to the question how someone comes to tex and then to context. Are tex macro packages used alongside and such? Are there 'from word/office to tex' or reverse manuals? What could be a motivation to write one. I guess most ConTeXt users migrated from LaTeX at some point, so that guide would really make sense. But I can’t write it either, even if I’m also working with LaTeX (but just as a user of one special class). If I run into a problem in LaTeX that I know to solve in ConTeXt, the approach is never right. I think the similarities of LaTeX and ConTeXt are mostly misleading, you’re better off trying to forget everything and start anew. In LaTeX most problems are solved with “use this or that package”, without the need to understand the commands and settings involved, while in ConTeXt most problems are solved with \setupsomething[somekey=somevalue]. Of course it helps to understand basic TeX stuff – but you’re not supposed to use (plain) TeX commands in LaTeX, while it is or was much more usual in ConTeXt. Writing my book I have users of text processors (Word/LibreOffice) and layout applications (InDesign etc.) in mind, even if I assume that most readers (if I’ll ever publish it...) will come from LaTeX. > So, one way out could be to have some collection of tips / suggestions and turn that into a kind of manual. Something to do by those who make some transition or use alongside. The wiki is the place start with that. > > So .. up to users. Yes, and that means: up to users migrating from LaTeX and documenting their struggles. Hraban ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 22:59 ` Henning Hraban Ramm @ 2021-01-04 13:18 ` Ulrike Fischer 2021-01-04 14:30 ` Hans Hagen 2021-01-04 16:13 ` Henning Hraban Ramm 2021-01-06 7:17 ` Augusto Stoffel 1 sibling, 2 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Ulrike Fischer @ 2021-01-04 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context Am Sun, 3 Jan 2021 23:59:14 +0100 schrieb Henning Hraban Ramm: > In LaTeX most problems are solved with “use this or that package”, You only need to follow a few days the questions e.g. on tex.sx to see that this is not true: Answers about LaTeX are much more varied than a simple "use this package" and often include new definitions or background explanations. > without the need to understand the commands and settings > involved, The fact that there are so many packages extending LaTeX actually means that there is *more* need to understand commands and settings than in a system like context where "most problems are solved with \setupsomething[somekey=somevalue]". (But it also means that there are many people, who understand enough of the innards to write, to document and to explain packages, commands and settings.) > Of course it helps to understand basic TeX stuff – but you’re not > supposed to use (plain) TeX commands in LaTeX, while it is or was > much more usual in ConTeXt. Well we discourage the use of plain commands to avoid that new users trip over bewildering errors from stuff like "abc \hskip 2cm plus cde", but it is not forbidden to use them. -- Ulrike Fischer http://www.troubleshooting-tex.de/ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-04 13:18 ` Ulrike Fischer @ 2021-01-04 14:30 ` Hans Hagen 2021-01-04 14:53 ` Ulrike Fischer 2021-01-04 16:02 ` Henning Hraban Ramm 2021-01-04 16:13 ` Henning Hraban Ramm 1 sibling, 2 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2021-01-04 14:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: news3, mailing list for ConTeXt users On 1/4/2021 2:18 PM, Ulrike Fischer wrote: >> Of course it helps to understand basic TeX stuff – but you’re not >> supposed to use (plain) TeX commands in LaTeX, while it is or was >> much more usual in ConTeXt. > > Well we discourage the use of plain commands to avoid that new users > trip over bewildering errors from stuff like "abc \hskip 2cm plus > cde", but it is not forbidden to use them. Hm, \hskip is not a plain command but a language primitive. And there's nothing wrong with using primitives, assuming that one knows how they work (and in this case that a \relax does wonders). One of those 'persistent' wrong ideas about context is that it somehow is kind of plain but decided to not waste time arguing that. There are actually not that many commands in 'plain' anyway. Much of plain tex is setting up math (and all macro packages support those symbolic names and the basic math structures), some fonts (all macro package set up some font system and maybe some aliases that make it easier for plain users), but as soon as one uses latex or context or ... some different output routine kicks in, table mechanisms show up, \item has a different meaning, etc. (The early macro packages were kind of plain themselves: demanding redefinition of internals and such.) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-04 14:30 ` Hans Hagen @ 2021-01-04 14:53 ` Ulrike Fischer 2021-01-04 16:32 ` Joaquín Ataz López 2021-01-04 16:02 ` Henning Hraban Ramm 1 sibling, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread From: Ulrike Fischer @ 2021-01-04 14:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context Am Mon, 4 Jan 2021 15:30:43 +0100 schrieb Hans Hagen: >> Well we discourage the use of plain commands to avoid that new users >> trip over bewildering errors from stuff like "abc \hskip 2cm plus >> cde", but it is not forbidden to use them. > Hm, \hskip is not a plain command but a language primitive. Yes, sorry. I lost the "TeX" from the "(plain) TeX commands" from Henning. > One of those 'persistent' wrong ideas about context is that it somehow > is kind of plain Really? I wouldn't see it this way. I wondered a bit about the number of primitives shown in the document of Joaquín, but that they are used certainly doesn't make context like plaintex. -- Ulrike Fischer http://www.troubleshooting-tex.de/ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-04 14:53 ` Ulrike Fischer @ 2021-01-04 16:32 ` Joaquín Ataz López 2021-01-05 9:04 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 32+ messages in thread From: Joaquín Ataz López @ 2021-01-04 16:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context > Really? I wouldn't see it this way. I wondered a bit about the > number of primitives shown in the document of Joaquín, but that they > are used certainly doesn't make context like plaintex. I have calculated the number of primitives from the list made in "TeX Reference Manual" by David Bausum (of which there is a web version at https://www.tug.org/utilities/plain/cseq.html). According to that text the number of primitives is exactly 326. In my document I rounded it to "approximately 300". -- Joaquín Ataz López Derecho Civil Universidad de Murcia ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-04 16:32 ` Joaquín Ataz López @ 2021-01-05 9:04 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2021-01-05 9:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Joaquín Ataz López On 1/4/2021 5:32 PM, Joaquín Ataz López wrote: > >> Really? I wouldn't see it this way. I wondered a bit about the >> number of primitives shown in the document of Joaquín, but that they >> are used certainly doesn't make context like plaintex. > > I have calculated the number of primitives from the list made in "TeX > Reference Manual" by David Bausum (of which there is a web version at > https://www.tug.org/utilities/plain/cseq.html). > > According to that text the number of primitives is exactly 326. In my > document I rounded it to "approximately 300". That list is a bit old. In the meantime we got etex extensions, which adds a few more, and then pdftex ades some, as well as omega and after that of course luatex. In luametatex we dropped some, and added others, so there we currently have 770 primitives. The increase of number is partly due to the 166 extra math related primitives of which many deal with all kind of font related paraneters and inter-blob spacing. \starttext \startTEXpage[offset=2mm,width=30cm,align={verytolerant,nothyphenated,flushleft},foregroundstyle=\tttf] \startluacode local t = tex.primitives() table.sort(t) local n = 0 for i=1,#t do if string.find(t[i],"^U") then n =n + 1 end end context("%i / %i: % t",#t,n,t) \stopluacode \stopTEXpage \stoptext if yuou want to know if something is a primitive, say: \meaningfull\vskip \par \meaningfull\relax \par \meaningfull\framed\par and you get an idea (\meaningfull itself is a primitive, the more verbose \meaning, and there's also \meaningless which I let you figure out yourself; of course these add two primitives to the repertoire). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-04 14:30 ` Hans Hagen 2021-01-04 14:53 ` Ulrike Fischer @ 2021-01-04 16:02 ` Henning Hraban Ramm 1 sibling, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Henning Hraban Ramm @ 2021-01-04 16:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users > Am 04.01.2021 um 15:30 schrieb Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>: > > On 1/4/2021 2:18 PM, Ulrike Fischer wrote: > >>> Of course it helps to understand basic TeX stuff – but you’re not >>> supposed to use (plain) TeX commands in LaTeX, while it is or was >>> much more usual in ConTeXt. >> Well we discourage the use of plain commands to avoid that new users >> trip over bewildering errors from stuff like "abc \hskip 2cm plus >> cde", but it is not forbidden to use them. > Hm, \hskip is not a plain command but a language primitive. And there's nothing wrong with using primitives, assuming that one knows how they work (and in this case that a \relax does wonders). > > One of those 'persistent' wrong ideas about context is that it somehow is kind of plain but decided to not waste time arguing that. There are actually not that many commands in 'plain' anyway. Much of plain tex is setting up math (and all macro packages support those symbolic names and the basic math structures), some fonts (all macro package set up some font system and maybe some aliases that make it easier for plain users), > but as soon as one uses latex or context or ... some different output routine kicks in, table mechanisms show up, \item has a different meaning, etc. (The early macro packages were kind of plain themselves: demanding redefinition of internals and such.) I don’t know anything about Knuth’s Plain TeX, I always mean plain TeX. ;) And I mix up primitives and "basic" commands, because it doesn’t matter for me. My mistake. What I meant: In ConTeXt code (by users and maybe only in old sources) I see a lot of TeX constructs, e.g. you’re using \def (TeX) and not \define (ConTeXt) because you know it makes no difference. And when I can’t achieve the right vertical spacing with \blank[something], I use \vskip, because it works. LaTeX replaces many basic commands/primitives (\vskip -> \vspace), ConTeXt might too, but with the same name. Hraban ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-04 13:18 ` Ulrike Fischer 2021-01-04 14:30 ` Hans Hagen @ 2021-01-04 16:13 ` Henning Hraban Ramm 1 sibling, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Henning Hraban Ramm @ 2021-01-04 16:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users > Am 04.01.2021 um 14:18 schrieb Ulrike Fischer <news3@nililand.de>: > > Am Sun, 3 Jan 2021 23:59:14 +0100 schrieb Henning Hraban Ramm: > >> In LaTeX most problems are solved with “use this or that package”, > > You only need to follow a few days the questions e.g. on tex.sx to > see that this is not true: Answers about LaTeX are much more varied > than a simple "use this package" and often include new definitions > or background explanations. Yes, sorry, that was overly simplified. Yes, there are many knowledgeable and helpful LaTeX users who throughly explain their suggestions. But when I’m looking for LaTeX solutions, it very often breaks down to using the one or other package (with a few options or configurations provided by them). >> without the need to understand the commands and settings >> involved, > > The fact that there are so many packages extending LaTeX actually > means that there is *more* need to understand commands and settings > than in a system like context where "most problems are solved with > \setupsomething[somekey=somevalue]". > > (But it also means that there are many people, who understand enough > of the innards to write, to document and to explain packages, > commands and settings.) Yes, but it’s in the concept of LaTeX that there is a gap between users and package writers. I prefer to copy a few settings (and adapt them to my needs) over using a package that might do also other things or is incompatible with some other packages that I might need. >> Of course it helps to understand basic TeX stuff – but you’re not >> supposed to use (plain) TeX commands in LaTeX, while it is or was >> much more usual in ConTeXt. > > Well we discourage the use of plain commands to avoid that new users > trip over bewildering errors from stuff like "abc \hskip 2cm plus > cde", but it is not forbidden to use them. The discouragement sometimes sounds a bit harsh ;) – not your problem. There are a few old ConTeXt users that use too much basic ("plain") TeX for my taste, esp. if there are better ways to solve their problems with simple ConTeXt commands. All the best, Hraban ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 22:59 ` Henning Hraban Ramm 2021-01-04 13:18 ` Ulrike Fischer @ 2021-01-06 7:17 ` Augusto Stoffel 1 sibling, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Augusto Stoffel @ 2021-01-06 7:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Hi Joaquín, Here is a small suggestion, which would have a few different uses. The following link, which I copied from the index, should take you to the definition of \vbox: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_eng.pdf#%5B%7B%22num%22%3A117%2C%22gen%22%3A0%7D%2C%7B%22name%22%3A%22Fit%22%7D%5D This works at least in some browsers, or by passing the stuff after # as a suitable command-line argument to some PDF viewers. So, it would be really nice to make those named destinations stable and readable, for instance https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_eng.pdf#vbox I suspect this is either a switch you turn on in ConTeXt, or something that would still need to be implemented as a feature. Best, Augusto On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 12:00 AM Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> wrote: > > > Am 03.01.2021 um 22:24 schrieb Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>: > > > > On 1/3/2021 10:02 PM, BPJ wrote: > >> I understand that and it is all well and good. I am wondering if > there already is *another* text which presupposes basic knowledge of > TeX and general knowledge of LaTeX, perhaps in a by-topic style. > > I think this relates to the question how someone comes to tex and > then to context. Are tex macro packages used alongside and such? Are > there 'from word/office to tex' or reverse manuals? What could be a > motivation to write one. > > I guess most ConTeXt users migrated from LaTeX at some point, so > that guide would really make sense. But I can’t write it either, > even if I’m also working with LaTeX (but just as a user of one > special class). > > If I run into a problem in LaTeX that I know to solve in ConTeXt, > the approach is never right. > > I think the similarities of LaTeX and ConTeXt are mostly misleading, > you’re better off trying to forget everything and start anew. > > In LaTeX most problems are solved with “use this or that > package”, without the need to understand the commands and settings > involved, while in ConTeXt most problems are solved with > \setupsomething[somekey=somevalue]. > > Of course it helps to understand basic TeX stuff – but you’re > not supposed to use (plain) TeX commands in LaTeX, while it is or was > much more usual in ConTeXt. > > Writing my book I have users of text processors (Word/LibreOffice) > and layout applications (InDesign etc.) in mind, even if I assume > that most readers (if I’ll ever publish it...) will come from LaTeX. > > > > > So, one way out could be to have some collection of tips / > suggestions and turn that into a kind of manual. Something to do by > those who make some transition or use alongside. The wiki is the > place start with that. > > > > So .. up to users. > > Yes, and that means: up to users migrating from LaTeX and > documenting their struggles. > > Hraban > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an > entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 9:45 Joaquín Ataz López ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2021-01-03 18:42 ` BPJ @ 2021-01-03 21:27 ` denis.maier 2021-01-04 16:44 ` Aditya Mahajan 2021-01-08 13:01 ` Robert Zydenbos 5 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: denis.maier @ 2021-01-03 21:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context Thanks, Joaquín. This is really amazing. Denis > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: ntg-context <ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl> Im Auftrag von Joaquín > Ataz López > Gesendet: Sonntag, 3. Januar 2021 10:45 > An: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl> > Betreff: [NTG-context] A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV > > Hello to all: > > Two months ago I informed to the list that I had written an introduction in > Spanish to ConTeXt Mark IV. This interested several people, and in order to > increase their potential audience, a member of this list (native English > speaker) has proceeded to translate my text into English. > > It is precisely the members of this list who need no introduction at all, but it > can sometimes be useful to help someone get started with the fascinating > typesetting system that is ConTeXt. > > As for the English translation, I have made some small changes to the Spanish > version, so anyone who understands Spanish and prefers to read it in its > original language can download the new version: > > Both versions are available at the following links > > - Spanish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_esp.pdf > > - Engilish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_eng.pdf > > Soon I will send both texts, with their source files, to the documentation > section of the CTAN repository. > > > -- > Joaquín Ataz López > Derecho Civil > Universidad de Murcia > > __________________________________________________________ > _________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the > Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg- > context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > __________________________________________________________ > _________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 9:45 Joaquín Ataz López ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2021-01-03 21:27 ` denis.maier @ 2021-01-04 16:44 ` Aditya Mahajan 2021-01-08 13:01 ` Robert Zydenbos 5 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2021-01-04 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1484 bytes --] On Sun, 3 Jan 2021, Joaquín Ataz López wrote: > Hello to all: > > Two months ago I informed to the list that I had written an introduction > in Spanish to ConTeXt Mark IV. This interested several people, and in > order to increase their potential audience, a member of this list > (native English speaker) has proceeded to translate my text into English. > > It is precisely the members of this list who need no introduction at > all, but it can sometimes be useful to help someone get started with the > fascinating typesetting system that is ConTeXt. > > As for the English translation, I have made some small changes to the > Spanish version, so anyone who understands Spanish and prefers to read > it in its original language can download the new version: > > Both versions are available at the following links > > - Spanish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_esp.pdf > > - Engilish: https://webs.um.es/jal/docs/introCTX_eng.pdf > > Soon I will send both texts, with their source files, to the > documentation section of the CTAN repository. This is an excellent and detailed introduction. I had briefly skimmed through the Spanish version when you had posted it earlier, but since I do not understand Spanish I could not follow it. Now have quickly read some parts of the English version, I find that the document is very well written and at the right level of detail and tone for a new user. Thank you for writing this. Aditya [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
* Re: A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV 2021-01-03 9:45 Joaquín Ataz López ` (4 preceding siblings ...) 2021-01-04 16:44 ` Aditya Mahajan @ 2021-01-08 13:01 ` Robert Zydenbos 5 siblings, 0 replies; 32+ messages in thread From: Robert Zydenbos @ 2021-01-08 13:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1181 bytes --] Thank you, Joaquin, for this wonderfully systematic bit of work. I wish I had had this three or four years ago. There has been a bit of a discussion here about whether ConTeXt manuals should start from the assumption that the reader already is familiar with LaTeX or not. If I may cast a vote here: I recommend that authors *SHOULD NOT* assume such familiarity, because (1) Knowledge of LaTeX is not just irrelevant, but can actually confuse. (2) ConTeXt is a complete system in itself that is built up in a more consistent way than LaTeX. It does not depend on LaTeX in any way, and authors should not risk creating the impression that it does. Of course there’s nothing wrong if someone were to write parallel materials for LaTeX users (‘ConTeXt for LaTeX Users’, or something of the sort). But basically LaTeX ought to be ignored completely. I, for one, do not want to have anything to do with LaTeX any more, now that ConTeXt is there. Now that this new manual exists, I can more confidently recommend ConTeXt to colleagues. Thanks once again! Robert On 03.01.21 10:45, Joaquín Ataz López wrote: > Hello to all: > > Two months ago I informed to the list […] [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1776 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 493 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 32+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2021-07-28 19:11 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 32+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <mailman.2967.1609923358.1206.ntg-context@ntg.nl> 2021-01-11 15:08 ` A not so short introduction to ConTeXt Mark IV Ivan Pešić 2021-01-03 9:45 Joaquín Ataz López 2021-01-03 10:32 ` Saša Janiška 2021-01-03 14:37 ` Garulfo 2021-01-03 16:42 ` Mojca Miklavec 2021-01-03 18:08 ` Hans Hagen 2021-01-05 20:31 ` Garulfo 2021-01-06 0:36 ` Bruce Horrocks 2021-01-06 5:26 ` Joaquín Ataz López 2021-01-06 12:08 ` Hans Hagen 2021-07-28 14:33 ` Kevin Vigouroux via ntg-context 2021-07-28 19:11 ` Kevin Vigouroux via ntg-context 2021-01-03 18:56 ` Joaquín Ataz López 2021-01-03 10:40 ` Alain Delmotte 2021-01-03 18:42 ` BPJ 2021-01-03 19:00 ` Joaquín Ataz López 2021-01-03 21:02 ` BPJ 2021-01-03 21:11 ` denis.maier 2021-01-03 21:25 ` Hans Hagen 2021-01-03 21:24 ` Hans Hagen 2021-01-03 22:59 ` Henning Hraban Ramm 2021-01-04 13:18 ` Ulrike Fischer 2021-01-04 14:30 ` Hans Hagen 2021-01-04 14:53 ` Ulrike Fischer 2021-01-04 16:32 ` Joaquín Ataz López 2021-01-05 9:04 ` Hans Hagen 2021-01-04 16:02 ` Henning Hraban Ramm 2021-01-04 16:13 ` Henning Hraban Ramm 2021-01-06 7:17 ` Augusto Stoffel 2021-01-03 21:27 ` denis.maier 2021-01-04 16:44 ` Aditya Mahajan 2021-01-08 13:01 ` Robert Zydenbos
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