Re: [Context] Xindy

Re: [Context] Xindy

[Gour]

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>>>>> "Mojca" == Mojca Miklavec <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> writes:

Mojca> Hello Gour, This is not a question for this mailing list, but
Mojca> rather for Hans himself.

OK.

Mojca> ConTeXt doesn't use makeindex, so I don't really understand your
Mojca> complaints about makeindex.

Well, I mentioned 'makeindex' in the context of the tool which cannot
properly handle Unicode, afaik.

Mojca> What features exactly do you miss? 

I'm not sure if indexing-feature in ConTeXt allow me to use English,
Croatian and Sanskrit diacritics (not Devanagari) all in one document and define that I
want e.g. that \'{s}, \d{s} has to be sorted under 'Š' ?

In short, xindy allows one to define his own sort-rules.

Mojca> It makes no sense to discuss distributing something before it can
Mojca> be used with ConTeXt.)

Right, that's why also asked "Now I'm interested how is support for
Xindy in ConTeXt" hoping that the context-distribution list has enough
knowledgeable people able to answer it.

Excuse me for the noise...redirecting to other list...


Sincerely,
Gour

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test files for Xindy (was Re: [Context] Xindy)

[Gour]

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>>>>> "Arthur" == Arthur Reutenauer <arthur.reutenauer@normalesup.org> writes:

Hello Arthur!

Arthur>   At for the original question, it certainly sounds like a good
Arthur> idea to me, but it needs investigation.  Gour, can you make a
Arthur> small test file with usage instruction?

I've found some old post from Xindy list (Jan 2003) with some
interesting info:

"I have completed my project to demonstrate the use of Xindy in
conjunction with Context. The results are available in the following
(identical) collections of files:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/culleton.zip
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/culleton.tar.gz

I look forward to a more elegant implementation by a more elegant
programmer.  But mine works for now.  :-) Anyone who needs to index a 
non-English document in Context (or pdfetex or whatever) need only
create an alphabet file and proceed onward."


So, if some ConTeXt expert can take a look and improve it, maybe we are
not far from having full Xindy support in ConTeXt.


Sincerely,
Gour

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Re: [Context] Xindy

[Hans Hagen]

Gour wrote:
>>>>>> "Mojca" == Mojca Miklavec <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> Mojca> Hello Gour, This is not a question for this mailing list, but
> Mojca> rather for Hans himself.
> 
> OK.
> 
> Mojca> ConTeXt doesn't use makeindex, so I don't really understand your
> Mojca> complaints about makeindex.
> 
> Well, I mentioned 'makeindex' in the context of the tool which cannot
> properly handle Unicode, afaik.
> 
> Mojca> What features exactly do you miss? 
> 
> I'm not sure if indexing-feature in ConTeXt allow me to use English,
> Croatian and Sanskrit diacritics (not Devanagari) all in one document and define that I
> want e.g. that \'{s}, \d{s} has to be sorted under 'Š' ?
> 
> In short, xindy allows one to define his own sort-rules.

you can define your own sort order (in mkiv this is somewhat easier 
because there we're in unicode space)

> Mojca> It makes no sense to discuss distributing something before it can
> Mojca> be used with ConTeXt.)
> 
> Right, that's why also asked "Now I'm interested how is support for
> Xindy in ConTeXt" hoping that the context-distribution list has enough
> knowledgeable people able to answer it.
> 
> Excuse me for the noise...redirecting to other list...

personally i have no plans for using xindy (i looked into it real long 
ago but at that time it was rather latex oriented and could not carry 
enough info around which i want in context)

currently the index mechanism in mkiv still uses the same tex interface 
when typesetting the index itself, but i will provide a more extensive 
mechanism (first i redo the sectioning and list); at that point we will 
also have one-pass index handling

of course, if someone wants to write a m-xindy, i can provide additional 
interfaces/hooks if needed

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [Context] Xindy

[Gour]

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>>>>> "Hans" == Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes:

Hans> you can define your own sort order (in mkiv this is somewhat
Hans> easier because there we're in unicode space)

Well, Xindy works with utf-8, but it 's nice to hear about mkiv's
features.

Hans> personally i have no plans for using xindy (i looked into it real
Hans> long ago but at that time it was rather latex oriented and could
Hans> not carry enough info around which i want in context)

Hmm, iirc, (it was long ago when I read Xindy's docs), Xindy is quite
markup agnostic. The very web site says:

"xindy is an index processor that can be used to generate book-like
indexes for arbitrary document-preparation systems. This includes
systems such as TeX and LaTeX, the roff-family, SGML/XML-based systems
(e.g., HTML) that process some kind of text and generate indexing
information. The kernel system is not fixed to any specific system, but
can be configured to work together with such systems."

You can also read http://xindy.sourceforge.net/features.html page...

Can ConTeXt process e.g. indexes like Bible's example mentioned under
"Manage Non-Standard Locations" section in the above page?

Hans> of course, if someone wants to write a m-xindy, i can provide
Hans> additional interfaces/hooks if needed

I'll be definitely interested to have it. However, probably not enough
time before the end of the year.

m-xindy is tsupposed to be written in TeX macro or Lua?


Sincerely,
Gour

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translating LyX/LaTex book into ConTeXt (was Re: [Context] Xindy)

[Gour]

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 12:21:21 +0200
Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

Hello Hans,

It was long ago since I did work on two parts of my mother's
autobiography and it was done in LyX/LaTeX/xindy...

Now, after her departure, there is an interest to write down 3rd
(final) part and I'm considering to do it as single book using ConTeXt.

> you can define your own sort order (in mkiv this is somewhat easier 
> because there we're in unicode space)

The two parts along with the to-be-written 3rd part would make it over
1k pages (currently part I & II are over 900p), there is mix of
Croatian and English in each book (although we published editions in
both languages), there are lot of Sanskrit words written using
diacritics, bibliography, glossary as well as color pictures.

I'm sure there is no problem in doing English/Croatian, but wonder
about Sanskrit diacritics, eg. when I typeset small snippet from the
LyX source I notice things like:

fonts           > checking > char ṁ (U+01E41) in font
'LMRoman12-Regular' with id 1: missing backend         > xmp > using
file '/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/mkiv/lpdf-pdx.xml'

so I wonder if you have some suggestions in regard to fonts which cover
those diacritics well?

When using LaTeX, accents were just handled by putting e.g. dot over
'm'. Any hint how to easily enter such things in one's editor?

Now, I wonder how can one "define one's own sort order" since I'd like
that words containing e.g. 'ṁ' are to be sorted as 'm'?

> personally i have no plans for using xindy (i looked into it real
> long ago but at that time it was rather latex oriented and could not
> carry enough info around which i want in context)

As far as I understand Xindy is not developed any longer, so I hope ConTeXt can
do everything?

What about generating Glossary?

> currently the index mechanism in mkiv still uses the same tex
> interface when typesetting the index itself, but i will provide a
> more extensive mechanism (first i redo the sectioning and list); at
> that point we will also have one-pass index handling

What is the status of the above now?


Any further hint in translating LyX/LaTeX sources into ConTeXt?


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
Those who are on this path are resolute in purpose,
and their aim is one. O beloved child of the Kurus,
the intelligence of those who are irresolute is many-branched.


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Re: translating LyX/LaTex book into ConTeXt (was Re: [Context] Xindy)

[Hans Hagen]

Hi,

> fonts           > checking > char ṁ (U+01E41) in font
> 'LMRoman12-Regular' with id 1: missing backend         > xmp > using
> file '/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/mkiv/lpdf-pdx.xml'

You can extend the default feature to also add missing composed 
characters to the font. In mkiv we have way more control and these 
missign characters are then made virtual ones but in the text they are 
proper unicodes.

\definefontfeature[default][compose=yes]

\starttext
     char ṁ (U+01E41)
\stoptext

> Now, I wonder how can one "define one's own sort order" since I'd like
> that words containing e.g. 'ṁ' are to be sorted as 'm'?

in sort-lan you can find examples of how sorting works in mkiv .. you 
can find examples in the test suite end elsewhere about how to influence 
the sorting order (basically it uses a language sorting order, but the 
sequence of the about 6 steps involving code, case, shape, can be 
changed ... in your case the m is quite likely to be sorted as m because 
it has the 'm' shape

> What about generating Glossary?

should be problem ... i'm pretty sure that on the list someone can tell 
you how he/she did it (users of critical editions)

> Any further hint in translating LyX/LaTeX sources into ConTeXt?

i never used lyx but i assume that when there is structure it can partly 
be scripted

Hans


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: translating LyX/LaTex book into ConTeXt (was Re: [Context] Xindy)

[Denis Maier]

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Converting LaTeX to ConTeXt should be possible with pandoc, though not
everything will work without manual adjustments.

Denis

Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> schrieb am So., 21. Juli 2019, 12:35:

> Hi,
>
> > fonts           > checking > char ṁ (U+01E41) in font
> > 'LMRoman12-Regular' with id 1: missing backend         > xmp > using
> > file '/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/mkiv/lpdf-pdx.xml'
>
> You can extend the default feature to also add missing composed
> characters to the font. In mkiv we have way more control and these
> missign characters are then made virtual ones but in the text they are
> proper unicodes.
>
> \definefontfeature[default][compose=yes]
>
> \starttext
>      char ṁ (U+01E41)
> \stoptext
>
> > Now, I wonder how can one "define one's own sort order" since I'd like
> > that words containing e.g. 'ṁ' are to be sorted as 'm'?
>
> in sort-lan you can find examples of how sorting works in mkiv .. you
> can find examples in the test suite end elsewhere about how to influence
> the sorting order (basically it uses a language sorting order, but the
> sequence of the about 6 steps involving code, case, shape, can be
> changed ... in your case the m is quite likely to be sorted as m because
> it has the 'm' shape
>
> > What about generating Glossary?
>
> should be problem ... i'm pretty sure that on the list someone can tell
> you how he/she did it (users of critical editions)
>
> > Any further hint in translating LyX/LaTeX sources into ConTeXt?
>
> i never used lyx but i assume that when there is structure it can partly
> be scripted
>
> Hans
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                            Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>                Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>         tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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Re: translating LyX/LaTex book into ConTeXt

[Saša Janiška]

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On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 12:35:09 +0200
Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> You can extend the default feature to also add missing composed 
> characters to the font. In mkiv we have way more control and these 
> missign characters are then made virtual ones but in the text they
> are proper unicodes.
> 
> \definefontfeature[default][compose=yes]
> 
> \starttext
>      char ṁ (U+01E41)
> \stoptext

That's great. Thank you!

> in sort-lan you can find examples of how sorting works in mkiv .. you 
> can find examples in the test suite end elsewhere about how to
> influence the sorting order (basically it uses a language sorting
> order, but the sequence of the about 6 steps involving code, case,
> shape, can be changed ... in your case the m is quite likely to be
> sorted as m because it has the 'm' shape

Good.

> should be problem ... i'm pretty sure that on the list someone can
> tell you how he/she did it (users of critical editions)

OK.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
He who is regulated in his habits of eating, sleeping, recreation
and work can mitigate all material pains by practicing the yoga system.

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