From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/106336 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: "Philipp A." Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: body text invades space for notes Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 11:17:02 +0100 Message-ID: References: <7e17aaa4-e8c2-6e00-1798-b35baa0c2611@gmx.es> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5685422735335474085==" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="83338"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Tue Feb 18 11:19:02 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from zapf.boekplan.nl ([5.39.185.232] helo=zapf.ntg.nl) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1j3zy2-000Lb9-66 for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 11:19:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54E82181E8E; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 11:17:21 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UTuXqxZZWH0u; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 11:17:18 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36AB181E80; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 11:17:18 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67CA9181BF4 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 11:17:17 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GlDRtorom2mq for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 11:17:15 +0100 (CET) Received-SPF: Pass (mailfrom) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.85.210.44; helo=mail-ot1-f44.google.com; envelope-from=trueflyingsheep@gmail.com; receiver= Original-Received: from mail-ot1-f44.google.com (mail-ot1-f44.google.com [209.85.210.44]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2AB51808A3 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 11:17:15 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: by mail-ot1-f44.google.com with SMTP id p8so18944572oth.10 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 02:17:15 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=TiTOQNI2q3gJSWmJvuQL8WsRtKfYvJLutpKDLN7rLiU=; b=aUx0O0YzwPLuWc4tNOuvPp63KUheF1wrcjfrzvyqwv8jSAfigObZIh0Q1DTbdJUGuX 6gl9mxcDBmXQvyFtP5S0wmOml6bakjGCbBseE/QIyrm+R4CG2MJD/N7Nbbkm8VKxeP0c QLY5XqSSOdhFlM+QbfnFMP/qq2vEeRR6V7f0II0eNN53vUovLrlVD69wjDDJ+BHs7318 9pmulFVcMbrCjlnXQGzJv5i88sTh9p58z1UgVyQdDuJDjPurDiz9c1Ou31/lXiGhKJbm cfSc0TjhDc+FmOzVNO5qkxwr7fmVU1oozaVFKeWffJKrPA9q8DCdjKUzw5rSUiDz39S5 AyyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUoI3fgfpGdNDmyxhgK0bQLeGcyt7mEhiYW+clrWYWpMVsl+0cM ZtNt3y2EAq8xHvff+TwsyVf6wcIhg1edw9rYI35EqAJg X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwdKfztMCGEQ16vwLYbrYuRGSibvoykTaW080vaxMs9chEXrtDzCUGDWBQLECSnAy3wWb7PW6NE0sgXrd1RrZs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:10d7:: with SMTP id z23mr15249941oto.114.1582021033766; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 02:17:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7e17aaa4-e8c2-6e00-1798-b35baa0c2611@gmx.es> X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: "ntg-context" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.comp.tex.context:106336 Archived-At: --===============5685422735335474085== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000beb547059ed6f920" --000000000000beb547059ed6f920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For me it=E2=80=99s even worse (in mkiv), a paragraph of body text complete= ly overlaps my footnote. Where are the bottom notes placed? In the footer? Or how does it work? How to debug it? Am Sa., 14. Dez. 2019 um 19:41 Uhr schrieb Pablo Rodriguez : > Dear list, > > I=E2=80=99m afraid to admit that ConTeXt notes are increasily problematic= for > me. I don=E2=80=99t think this is special to me and I hope we can discuss= the > general issue. > > Bottom notes are somewhat tricky in ConTeXt. The user expects that these > notes (either footnotes, or linenotes) aren=E2=80=99t moved to the next p= age. I > mean, no reader expects to find a full footnote in the next page from > the one that calls it. (At least, I have never seen that in any book > read or paged through.) > > There may be good reasons for that, but ConTeXt doesn=E2=80=99t enable th= is by > default. Both options "split=3Dverystrict" and "scope=3Dtext" have to be > used in "\setupnote". > > This translated in wrong space before notes when paragraph form was > used. I was very interested to use these (line)notes for critical > editions, but sometimes the text run into the notes. I=E2=80=99m afraid t= hat > left linenotes extremely problematic to be used. > > With the arrival of LMTX, space before footnotes is more problematic > than before. No paragraph notes, see the attached sample (wrong-6.png). > In other cases, ConTeXt seems to ignore totally that the page bottom > contains footnotes. > > I cannot provide minimal samples. Consider that if it were so easy to > reproduce, problably the issue would have been gone long ago. > > Even when one avoids the problematic bottom partition (which I did in > that case by removing the "before" option from "\setupnote[footnote]"), > there is clearly an issue with the footnote having its space before > remaining blank from the body text (wrong-2.png). > > My first question is why the bottom notes have problems to preserve the > space before them (and simultaneously remain in the same page where they > come from). This applies also for paragraph notes. > > My second question is what can be improved to achieve what may be > considered as a basic typographic feature. > > Sorry for not providing more than output samples. Bear with me. I may > not be an expert user, but I think I=E2=80=99m a frequent ConTeXt user. A= nd I > don=E2=80=99t think it is totally wrong to consider this a basic feature = that > needs to be improved. > > Many thanks for your help in advance, > > Pablo > -- > http://www.ousia.tk > > > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to > the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ > --000000000000beb547059ed6f920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For me it=E2=80=99s even worse (in mkiv), a paragraph= of body text completely overlaps my footnote.

Whe= re are the bottom notes placed? In the footer? Or how does it work? How to = debug it?

Am Sa., 14. Dez. 2019 um 19:41=C2=A0Uhr schrieb Pablo Ro= driguez <oinos@gmx.es>:
=
Dear list,

I=E2=80=99m afraid to admit that ConTeXt notes are increasily problematic f= or
me. I don=E2=80=99t think this is special to me and I hope we can discuss t= he
general issue.

Bottom notes are somewhat tricky in ConTeXt. The user expects that these notes (either footnotes, or linenotes) aren=E2=80=99t moved to the next pag= e. I
mean, no reader expects to find a full footnote in the next page from
the one that calls it. (At least, I have never seen that in any book
read or paged through.)

There may be good reasons for that, but ConTeXt doesn=E2=80=99t enable this= by
default. Both options "split=3Dverystrict" and "scope=3Dtext= " have to be
used in "\setupnote".

This translated in wrong space before notes when paragraph form was
used. I was very interested to use these (line)notes for critical
editions, but sometimes the text run into the notes. I=E2=80=99m afraid tha= t
left linenotes extremely problematic to be used.

With the arrival of LMTX, space before footnotes is more problematic
than before. No paragraph notes, see the attached sample (wrong-6.png).
In other cases, ConTeXt seems to ignore totally that the page bottom
contains footnotes.

I cannot provide minimal samples. Consider that if it were so easy to
reproduce, problably the issue would have been gone long ago.

Even when one avoids the problematic bottom partition (which I did in
that case by removing the "before" option from "\setupnote[f= ootnote]"),
there is clearly an issue with the footnote having its space before
remaining blank from the body text (wrong-2.png).

My first question is why the bottom notes have problems to preserve the
space before them (and simultaneously remain in the same page where they come from). This applies also for paragraph notes.

My second question is what can be improved to achieve what may be
considered as a basic typographic feature.

Sorry for not providing more than output samples. Bear with me. I may
not be an expert user, but I think I=E2=80=99m a frequent ConTeXt user. And= I
don=E2=80=99t think it is totally wrong to consider this a basic feature th= at
needs to be improved.

Many thanks for your help in advance,

Pablo
--
http:/= /www.ousia.tk

___________________________________________________________________________= ________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki!

maillist : ntg-cont= ext@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/nt= g-context
webpage=C2=A0 : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net=
archive=C2=A0 : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-m= irror/commits/
wiki=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________= ________
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