From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/100809 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Fabrice L Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: roadmap Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 15:14:32 -0400 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6220788237620351521==" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1526497967 24114 195.159.176.226 (16 May 2018 19:12:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 19:12:47 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Wed May 16 21:12:43 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from zapf.boekplan.nl ([5.39.185.232] helo=zapf.ntg.nl) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fJ1qs-0006AY-TK for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 May 2018 21:12:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FE5A28DAE; Wed, 16 May 2018 21:14:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8rddlpqWiNgJ; Wed, 16 May 2018 21:14:45 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6812A28D8E; Wed, 16 May 2018 21:14:45 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67EB328D8E for ; Wed, 16 May 2018 21:14:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 91ybBouBW0-b for ; Wed, 16 May 2018 21:14:43 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-wm0-f43.google.com (mail-wm0-f43.google.com [74.125.82.43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 762DB28D88 for ; Wed, 16 May 2018 21:14:33 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by mail-wm0-f43.google.com with SMTP id m129-v6so4391905wmb.3 for ; Wed, 16 May 2018 12:14:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=fF8Qoq1B/ZwRlKgr+x5PNO125K27fQzkHVVPObOW/38=; b=mbuvFSDNNZYuV+9alg+6d3ysZXmLWd/5asgZ3dHEw4trPTqdWlpc+MWNX9sdthc8zX 3wJZkmDA47XXIf7nIjAEE8cd7klg81TDXHtv+nWCVpvB0EEb7FMw6qmQcPCa7KZ4sLmB xSmCBHmvpsJsXQ3hRqV3qh8aB8mBrXyhPBeKu7nBEoNZeVkPeEzOJ5MxVYaBgeTAd4td utpxToFriqJNvqI63vKVZ1TStqafld+bcy4TH6eVYSDRiVqnAwXUFxonwylHwLokvX+4 NZ5HGgAhR5DjPX158lPmjRnq0HORw0m7JefBYJ60CQVQBBlLQg/XMA0jljpU+LnLN4qv fxjg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=fF8Qoq1B/ZwRlKgr+x5PNO125K27fQzkHVVPObOW/38=; b=UToDPamiqCA1T09YVBW2a62MgP1UyPDxQyphWkeoTqC5katlLgiiyF+hld1oiDskGn 1KDpWrx0IEDmnlnsETnleRUQoeU6uL/yu3y1Xhb4f1IhMZZuQ7YQbC4gJqWs2tWqx9zG rNF70egsKS8UKnoc256ZZwzAlDVx/H3R24jgKJdT7ESazhxSK9TSjnS425H+zZnivpsI xnz0eEeHMwwZxuwXsoatxwVr8HCKfKmJehQGVGoBVwt3Fw9goCWmXyVWXTON5NGa8w6D GWZ2H7bZjeAGijx04jgmpnPRSreqhtEmIpuDbuwbeAQp1sQ1QdvgV5qLS7pY0WWJkjjd 0sNg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwfpWN+i4R2FBVR4eVZCDvI1dp5ZCHyLL3zZoBMw5jElGW11hOLq 3S7ogZVFFhPQn0Elh993S1KBLg0vpXeccb4L7ciITQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZq1ekbw4xisixMX48c5i+kZ3nR5LnYgw7bvDBShmiyO8U5udBPc5L6Fgn8BRl4n6QLYz/filLYXf8Nit/zFkPA= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:4a0d:: with SMTP id x13-v6mr1406333wma.150.1526498072799; Wed, 16 May 2018 12:14:32 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.223.185.6 with HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2018 12:14:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: "ntg-context" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:100809 Archived-At: --===============6220788237620351521== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000612d63056c578774" --000000000000612d63056c578774 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear all, > - Check what additional features users want (miss) and decide to what extent and with what priority we will put effort in this. As asked, I add a wish to the list... One feature which I depend a lot on is to be able to do animations: I actually use the Raw Steps module, by David Munger (dated from 2006), which still worked, but in MKII only. This is essential for me for my teaching and talks. During teaching, I have designed courses notes in ConText using a lot modes of context: the notes are different for the teacher, are available in two formats for the students (paper and for completion on tablets), and there is a last version for use in the class by me. In class, this is essential for me that the material is presented by steps, otherwise students have a tendency to not listen, or to not try to solve a problem is the solution is already on the screen. I can not use the animation tools available in ConTexT using javascript, since I use to show notes in class an iPad, and I use the stylus to fill blanks present in the notes (which work great by the way !). The facility to use modes in the courses notes like this have convinced several of my colleagues to use ConTeXt for their teaching needs. Following threads on this list on animations, my understanding is that Hans is not a great supporter of the method of animations in the Raw Steps module, for technical reasons. I have switch to MKIV for others documents, but I'm still on MKII for this reason for my courses notes, which are 90% one my needs in TeX. Fabrice. 2018-05-14 11:17 GMT-04:00 Hans Hagen : > Hi, > > The ConTeXt meeting is - as usual - the right place and moment to discuss > the roadmap. We never had real binding roadmaps, more informal ones. > Anyway, here are some thoughts on the two main components: MkIV and LuaTeX. > > ConTeXt MkIV: > > - Check if some mechanism can (by now) be simplified due to LuaTeX > extension introduced the last few years that can be considered stable by > now. This has a low impact as we already use Lua a lot. > > - Figure out what mechanism in ConTeXt are bottlenecks in performance if > there are such bottlenecks at all. We need user input on this. > > - Get rid of inconsistencies in the user interface e.g. by introducing new > commands with settings. > > - Check what additional features users want (miss) and decide to what > extent and with what priority we will put effort in this. We've reached a > point where interference prevents more complex extensions. > > - Try to improve tricky mechanisms, like columns and tables. Improvements > are of course always on the agenda. > > - We can add more trickery for fonts and scripts. There are some pending > extensions. > > - Maybe we should provide a few more general styles. > > - Are there reasonable challenges left. > > LuaTeX 1.09: > > - This version is pretty close to what is the final version (seen from the > functional point of view). We're still debating where to move after this. > LuaTeX 2.0? A stripped down (lean and mean) version specific for ConTeXt? > Keep in mind that we cannot fundamentally change something, even if we want > to, because other macro packages use it and don't expect it to change much. > > - There will probably be some more options in controlling math (given > issues with fonts). We have to accept that not everything has a generic > programmable solution (which is why we have Lua on board). > > - There might be a few more callbacks but probably nothing fundamental is > planned. > > - We keep cleaning up the code base (less code is better, less > dependencies too, some documentation is missing or not yet adapted to the > new code). For instance the pdf inclusion code will soon be redone (and > then tested in the ConTeXt distribution as usual). > > - When possible we will try to improve performance but there is not much > to gain to be expected there. > > - We will also keep up with Lua (currently 5.3, some day 5.4). It is > unclear to what extent LuaJit follows. When it stays behind we need to > decide if support in ConTeXt will stay (to some extent we can have dual > code paths as we have now). > > - We expect the ffi interface to external libraries to become more stable > over time. ConTeXt will not introduce dependencies (what can be done in Lua > will happen in Lua) but on the other hand we might put some libraries in > the distribution e.g. for database support. > > - We might add some extensions to MetaPost in MPLib. > > In addition we could formulate ideas with respect to the distribution, > garden, documentation and so on. > > You can react on this list but if you come to the meeting, you can > participate in discussions. > > So far for now, > > Hans > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE > Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands > tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > _______________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to > the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/list > info/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ____________________________________________________________ > _______________________ --000000000000612d63056c578774 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,

>=C2=A0- Check what additional features users want (mi= ss) and decide to what extent and with what priority we will put effort in = this.

<= /span>
As asked, I= add a wish to the list...

One feature=C2=A0which I depend a lot on is to be able to do anim= ations: I actually use the Raw Steps module, by David Munger (dated from 20= 06), which still worked, but in MKII only. This is essential for me for my = teaching and talks.=C2=A0During=C2=A0teaching, I have designed courses note= s in ConText using a lot modes of context: the notes are=C2=A0different for= the=C2=A0teacher, are available in two formats for the students (paper and= for completion on tablets), and=C2=A0there is a last version for use in th= e class by me. In class, this is essential for me that the material is pres= ented by steps,=C2=A0otherwise students have a tendency to not=C2=A0listen,= or to not try to solve a problem is the solution is already on the screen.= I can not use=C2=A0the=C2=A0animation tools=C2=A0available in ConTexT usin= g javascript, since I use to show notes in class an iPad, and I use the sty= lus to fill blanks present in the notes (which work great by the way !). Th= e=C2=A0facility to use modes in the courses notes like this have convinced = several of my=C2=A0colleagues to use ConTeXt for their teaching needs.=C2= =A0

Following thr= eads on this=C2=A0list on animations, my=C2=A0understanding is that Hans is= not a great supporter of the method of animations in=C2=A0the Raw Steps mo= dule, for technical reasons.=C2=A0

I have switch to MKIV for others documents, but I'm s= till on MKII for this reason for my courses notes, which are 90%=C2=A0one m= y needs in TeX.
Fabrice.

2018-05-14 11:17 GMT-04:00 Hans Hagen &l= t;j.hagen@xs4all.nl<= /a>>:
Hi,

The ConTeXt meeting is - as usual - the right place and moment to discuss t= he roadmap. We never had real binding roadmaps, more informal ones. Anyway,= here are some thoughts on the two main components: MkIV and LuaTeX.

ConTeXt MkIV:

- Check if some mechanism can (by now) be simplified due to LuaTeX extensio= n introduced the last few years that can be considered stable by now. This = has a low impact as we already use Lua a lot.

- Figure out what mechanism in ConTeXt are bottlenecks in performance if th= ere are such bottlenecks at all. We need user input on this.

- Get rid of inconsistencies in the user interface e.g. by introducing new = commands with settings.

- Check what additional features users want (miss) and decide to what exten= t and with what priority we will put effort in this. We've reached a po= int where interference prevents more complex extensions.

- Try to improve tricky mechanisms, like columns and tables. Improvements a= re of course always on the agenda.

- We can add more trickery for fonts and scripts. There are some pending ex= tensions.

- Maybe we should provide a few more general styles.

- Are there reasonable challenges left.

LuaTeX 1.09:

- This version is pretty close to what is the final version (seen from the = functional point of view). We're still debating where to move after thi= s. LuaTeX 2.0? A stripped down (lean and mean) version specific for ConTeXt= ? Keep in mind that we cannot fundamentally change something, even if we wa= nt to, because other macro packages use it and don't expect it to chang= e much.

- There will probably be some more options in controlling math (given issue= s with fonts). We have to accept that not everything has a generic programm= able solution (which is why we have Lua on board).

- There might be a few more callbacks but probably nothing fundamental is p= lanned.

- We keep cleaning up the code base (less code is better, less dependencies= too, some documentation is missing or not yet adapted to the new code). Fo= r instance the pdf inclusion code will soon be redone (and then tested in t= he ConTeXt distribution as usual).

- When possible we will try to improve performance but there is not much to= gain to be expected there.

- We will also keep up with Lua (currently 5.3, some day 5.4). It is unclea= r to what extent LuaJit follows. When it stays behind we need to decide if = support in ConTeXt will stay (to some extent we can have dual code paths as= we have now).

- We expect the ffi interface to external libraries to become more stable o= ver time. ConTeXt will not introduce dependencies (what can be done in Lua = will happen in Lua) but on the other hand we might put some libraries in th= e distribution e.g. for database support.

- We might add some extensions to MetaPost in MPLib.

In addition we could formulate ideas with respect to the distribution, gard= en, documentation and so on.

You can react on this list but if you come to the meeting, you can particip= ate in discussions.

So far for now,

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 H= ans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH = Hasselt | The Netherlands
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.p= ragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------=
_________________________________________________________________= __________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki!

maillist : ntg-cont= ext@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listin= fo/ntg-context
webpage=C2=A0 : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net=
archive=C2=A0 : https://bitbucket.org/phg/cont= ext-mirror/commits/
wiki=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: http://contextgarden.net
_________________________________________________________________= __________________

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