From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/88115 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Wooten Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: State of documentation of ConTeXt? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:26:40 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1642f57885676cbd1020027a2bff7c40.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <53C41372.7080802@wxs.nl> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1554505271==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1405463233 1364 80.91.229.3 (15 Jul 2014 22:27:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:27:13 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Wed Jul 16 00:27:08 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X7BBj-0006ig-Pf for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:27:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4689110280 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:27:07 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id X02b1-Thoz4X for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:27:07 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3136910222 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:26:59 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 131FB101E6 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:26:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id eATXVHqPB0R7 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:26:50 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter2-til.mf.surf.net (filter2-til.mf.surf.net [194.171.167.218]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3AC6101E3 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:26:45 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from server.farwestmillwork.com (server.farwestmillwork.com [66.116.103.196]) by filter2-til.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id s6FMQgs2031187 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:26:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by server.farwestmillwork.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FAA6E51C3A for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:26:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at farwestmillwork.com Original-Received: from server.farwestmillwork.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.farwestmillwork.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E7yDBxgDvG6O for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:26:38 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.42.66] (50-0-33-21.dsl.static.sonic.net [50.0.33.21]) by server.farwestmillwork.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0CDA5E51C1D for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:26:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: ntg-context@ntg.nl, base:default, @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=66.116.103.196; country=US; region=Nevada; city=Vegas; latitude=36.1750; longitude=-115.1372; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=36.1750,-115.1372&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0TMqKqHyk - 8c4fe42153b1 - 20140716 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 194.171.167.218 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:88115 Archived-At: --===============1554505271== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_23ED1125-28B7-48F3-B301-843B6095ABBA" --Apple-Mail=_23ED1125-28B7-48F3-B301-843B6095ABBA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Jul 15, 2014, at 2:59 AM, Gerben Wierda wrote: > I like ConTeXt (still do, I liked its approach when I first = encountered it). But the project is more the ongoing private tinkering = of a small in-crowd (that communicates with some followers). >=20 > ConTeXt is managed a bit like a small group of researchers sharing a = couple of complex and undocumented models/programs and tinkering with = them as they go along. It=92s an activity without formal design, but = with a lot of trial-and-error/testing. >=20 > Given that status (and the fact that it has had that status for over a = decennium), I don=92t expect it to ever become a serious product that is = (semi-)professionally managed. I prefer content over management every = day, but something like this needs some minimal management. That = requires both time (=3Dmoney) and capabilities. Besides, the tinkering = researchers may not be inclined to do that, they want to tinker. Agreed, though for my part with the opposite emphasis. I do not think = ConTeXt is meant to be a =93serious product=94, as in being developed to = be a product in the =93marketplace=94 of typesetting software =97 even = open/free software. My impression is exactly yours, it is being = developed primarily for the purposes of Pragma=97a small in-crowd no = doubt=97but with extraordinarily generous support for a small community = of non-Pragma people interested in using it. I=92m grateful to have = access to ConTeXt, as for me it=92s the only sane method of typesetting = the kind of documents I wish to typeset =97 not LaTeX, not InDesign, not = Plain TeX, =85 I can tell you that every question or suggestion I=92ve = had has been responded to in the most generous form in this community, = which I cannot say about any other platform I=92ve used, typesetting or = otherwise. It=92s suspect to take umbrage on another=92s behalf, but =93tinkering = researchers may not be inclined to do that, they want to tinker=94 =97 = It=92s absurd to suggest that Hans &co. are =93tinkering=94 for the sake = of tinkering. David=20= --Apple-Mail=_23ED1125-28B7-48F3-B301-843B6095ABBA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 On Jul = 15, 2014, at 2:59 AM, Gerben Wierda <Gerben.Wierda@rna.nl> = wrote:

I = like ConTeXt (still do, I liked its approach when I first encountered = it). But the project is more the ongoing private tinkering of a small = in-crowd (that communicates with some = followers).

ConTeXt is managed a bit like a = small group of researchers sharing a couple of complex and undocumented = models/programs and tinkering with them as they go along. It=92s an = activity without formal design, but with a lot of = trial-and-error/testing.

Given that status (and = the fact that it has had that status for over a decennium), I = don=92t expect it to ever become a serious product that is = (semi-)professionally managed. I prefer content over management every = day, but something like this needs some minimal management. That = requires both time (=3Dmoney) and capabilities. Besides, the tinkering = researchers may not be inclined to do that, they want to = tinker.

Agreed, though for = my part with the opposite emphasis. I do not think ConTeXt is meant to = be a =93serious product=94, as in being developed to be a product in = the =93marketplace=94 of  typesetting software =97 even = open/free software. My impression is exactly yours, it is being = developed primarily for the purposes of Pragma=97a small in-crowd = no doubt=97but with extraordinarily generous support for a small = community of non-Pragma people interested in using it. I=92m = grateful to have access to ConTeXt, as for me it=92s the = only sane method of typesetting the kind of documents I wish to typeset = =97 not LaTeX, not InDesign, not Plain TeX, =85 I = can tell you that every question or suggestion I=92ve had has been = responded to in the most generous form in this community, which I cannot = say about any other platform I=92ve used, typesetting or = otherwise.

It=92s suspect to take umbrage on = another=92s behalf, but =93tinkering researchers may not be inclined to = do that, they want to tinker=94 =97 It=92s absurd to suggest that Hans = &co. are =93tinkering=94 for the sake of = tinkering.

David 
= --Apple-Mail=_23ED1125-28B7-48F3-B301-843B6095ABBA-- --===============1554505271== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============1554505271==--