From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/25562 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Thomas A. Schmitz" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Problem with German quotes and kerning Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:44:59 +0100 Message-ID: References: <1BFDD604-4DEB-41EE-8B78-61A4811B8160@uni-bonn.de> <6faad9f00601250445r10e89c52x4401f0017dfffde2@mail.gmail.com> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1138211223 25061 80.91.229.2 (25 Jan 2006 17:47:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:47:03 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Wed Jan 25 18:46:59 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F1oiU-0006vi-Kz for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:45:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78FE1281B; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:45:56 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 15031-10; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:45:53 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0A512805; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:45:52 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB11912805 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:45:51 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 14983-10 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:45:50 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mailout07.sul.t-online.com (mailout07.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.83]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A132127FE for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:45:49 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from fwd34.aul.t-online.de by mailout07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1F1oiL-0007io-0C; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:45:49 +0100 Original-Received: from [192.168.0.2] (ThjHL6ZAoeWxBsrLfofgE6PzPa5mFtkl6xJC2IUb0QNZFFO301Ixcl@[84.172.83.44]) by fwd34.sul.t-online.de with esmtp id 1F1oiC-1wfRce0; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:45:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: <6faad9f00601250445r10e89c52x4401f0017dfffde2@mail.gmail.com> Original-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-ID: ThjHL6ZAoeWxBsrLfofgE6PzPa5mFtkl6xJC2IUb0QNZFFO301Ixcl@t-dialin.net X-TOI-MSGID: db748645-7708-4fa9-b10a-01576fa041e2 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:25562 Archived-At: Mojca, thanks a lot for you reply! On Jan 25, 2006, at 1:45 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote: > On the transferred page: > http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Wishes_for_Latin_Modern > there are already kerning issues listed. > > If the problem on that page is not expressed clearly enough (and if > the proposal is not OK), add your comments to that page. Well, the problem is that this is not really relevant to my question. = Of course it would be good to have proper kerning for German quotes = implemented in the fonts, Latin Modern or any other font. But the way = this is now handled in lang-ger.tex, this kerning is not applied in = ConTeXt! So even if LM were perfect in this regard, we still wouldn't = have properly kerned German quotes (am I making sense here, or is = this not clear enough?). > > I agree that kerning "German" style of quotation marks was (and > perhaps still is?) horrible, perhaps slightly better in LM than it was > in CM. We use them as well (to be honest - 95% of LaTeX-people uses > the wrong ones). > > I use \quotation because of these reasons: > - I never know which is the proper command to get the desired > quotation marks with combination of ", `, ', ... > - I trust Hans that the macro is optimized in such a way that the > hyphenation and everything else on the word boundary will be OK > (although I'm not sure what happens to kerning) > - I can simply redefine the quotation marks or the style of text to be > used, for example it's easy to replace them by guillemet/guillemot > alternative if necessary > > It might be a personal decision which ones one uses, but I would say > that using "` vs. \quotation is approximately the same as using \"{a} > vs =E4. All of them work, but the second variant is somewhat cleaner. OK, this makes sense, especially your third point. If you use ConTeXt = exclusively, quotation{} and \quote{} may have advantages, but you = can't copy/paste text into, say, a file to be processed with LaTeX. = And I use emacs + auctex, so I don't have to remember what I need to = type, it is done automatically. OTOH, I could also configure auctex = to write \quotation{ when I type ". It this meant that I would get = proper kerning, I'd go for it... Thanks, and best Thomas