* Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference
[not found] <mailman.12.1344199608.17520.ntg-context@ntg.nl>
@ 2012-08-06 7:41 ` Robert Blackstone
2012-08-06 12:16 ` Wolfgang Schuster
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Robert Blackstone @ 2012-08-06 7:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 16:38:12 +0200
Marco Patzer <homerow@lavabit.com
wrote
>> Am 05.08.2012 um 16:05 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:
>>
>>>
>>> How can I refer to some text, for example a discussion of a particular topic, on another page or in another chapter of my document with, for instance "(See discussion on page xx)"?
> Hi Robert,
>
> \starttext
> See \in{section}[sec:foo] on \at{page}[sec:foo]
> or the text on \at{page}[ref:a].
>
> \page
> \startsection [title=Foo, reference=sec:foo]
> \stopsection
> \page
>
> Some text\reference[ref:a]
> \stoptext
Thank you Marco. Another very useful tool for me. I realize now that many things with labels can be used as anchors for references, and I'm still a bit surprised that a delimited text with a label cannot be used that way.
Anyway, your and Wolfgang Schuster's advice give me all I need on this point.
Kind regards,
Robert Blackstone
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference
2012-08-06 7:41 ` Marking a textfragment for later reference Robert Blackstone
@ 2012-08-06 12:16 ` Wolfgang Schuster
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2012-08-06 12:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Am 06.08.2012 um 09:41 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:
> Thank you Marco. Another very useful tool for me. I realize now that many things with labels can be used as anchors for references, and I'm still a bit surprised that a delimited text with a label cannot be used that way.
Where has the delimited text in your example a label?
Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
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* Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference
[not found] <mailman.35.1344350527.14247.ntg-context@ntg.nl>
@ 2012-08-08 7:48 ` Robert Blackstone
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Robert Blackstone @ 2012-08-08 7:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On 7 aug. 2012, 12:47:06 Sietse Brouwer <sbbrouwer@gmail.com>
wrote
>
> I guess that was never baked in. Probably because quotations are not
> really numbered objects, and so not obvious candidates for having
> their own labels.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Sietse
Hi Sietse,
Thanks for your answer and your patience.
It is clear now: marking a textfragment for later reference by means of a delimited text is not necessary and therefore not enabled.
Thanks again.
Best regards,
Robert
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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* Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference
2012-08-07 7:42 ` Robert Blackstone
2012-08-07 8:03 ` Pontus Lurcock
@ 2012-08-07 15:42 ` Wolfgang Schuster
1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2012-08-07 15:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Am 07.08.2012 um 09:42 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:
>
> On 6 aug. 2012, Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>
> wrote
>>
>> On 6 aug. 2012, Mon, 6 Aug 2012 14:16:09 +020
>> Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Am 06.08.2012 um 09:41 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Thank you Marco. Another very useful tool for me. I realize now that many things with labels can be used as anchors for references, and I'm still a bit surprised that a delimited text with a label cannot be used that way.
>>>
>>> Where has the delimited text in your example a label?
>>>
>>> Wolfgang
>>
>>
>> I had not included a minimal example but I had run some trials. Since they did not work, and you gave me a good solution, I trashed them. I kept the pdf's though, in which I included the source. So I can reconstruct the examples.
>> I'll try to make it again tomorrow morning. I would be interested to learn what sort of errors I committed.
>> Kind regards,
>> Robert Blackstone
>
>
> Here follows my minimal example. I reasoned that the identifier [topica] might act as a label, or an anchor, or whatever the correct ConTeXt name is, for a reference.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> \definedelimitedtext[topica]
> \setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous? I do not need a layout different from the rest of the text.
Here you’re telling context to create the new delimitedtext environment \starttopica … \stoptopica. The first argument for both commands (\define and \setup) is the new of the environment which you want to create or change.
Wolfgang
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference
2012-08-07 9:44 ` Robert Blackstone
@ 2012-08-07 10:47 ` Sietse Brouwer
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Sietse Brouwer @ 2012-08-07 10:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Hi Robert,
> So my question: "Why can some identifiers,
> for example of figures, be used for internal
> references and others not?" remains unanswered.
That would be because there are
* names, for creating a named variant of some command
* and labels, which are used for cross-references,
and I think you are calling them both identifiers. (Not sure I'm using
the official terms, or if there are any.)
Some examples below, I hope they'll clarify things. I never had any
problems confusing labels and names myself, so I'm not sure how to
explain what was obvious to me, but perhaps this will help:
Names occur when you're defining things; Labels occur when you're
placing things.
As for why you can't do
\definedelimitedtext[AA]
\startAA[mylabel]
bla
\stopAA
I guess that was never baked in. Probably because quotations are not
really numbered objects, and so not obvious candidates for having
their own labels.
Cheers,
Sietse
%%%%%%% Example: label %%%%%
\placefigure
[here]
[fig:myfig] % label: used to refer to the figure
{caption}{figure}
%%%%%%% Example: command like \startNAME %%%%%
\definedelimitedtext
[smallquote] % name
[style=small]
\startsmallquote % our own named environment
bla bla bla
\stopsmallquote
%%%%% Example: names and labels %%%%%
\useexternalfigure
[littlecow] % define a named picture
[cow.pdf]
[width=1cm]
\placefigure
[here]
[fig:littlecow] % a label for the figure float
{Kleine, kleine koe}
{\externalfigure[littlecow]} % invoking a named picture
--
Sietse Brouwer -- sbbrouwer@gmail.com -- +31 6 13.456.848
Verlengde Wassenaarseweg 4a -- 2342 BG Oegstgeest -- the Netherlands
MSN: sietse@gawab.com -- ICQ: 341232104
On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Robert Blackstone
<blackstone.robert@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 7 aug. 2012, Pontus Lurcock <pont@talvi.net>
> wrote
>>
>> On Tue 07 Aug 2012, Robert Blackstone wrote:
>>
>>> Here follows my minimal example. I reasoned that the identifier [topica] might act as a label, or an anchor, or whatever the correct ConTeXt name is, for a reference.
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> \definedelimitedtext[topica]
>>> \setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous? I do not need a layout different from the rest of the text.
>>> \starttext
>>>
>>> Some text.
>>>
>>> \starttopica
>>> Some text to explain a certain topic, called topica.
>>> \stoptopica
>>>
>>> Some more text about topica. (See discussion on \at{page}[topica])
>>>
>>> \stoptext
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To avoid any misunderstanding: this is no longer a problem since I have been given excellent advice. But it intrigues me. Why can some identifiers, for example of figures, be used for internal references and others not?
>>
>> In this case, I'd say it's because you're defining a delimited text
>> style which can be used in multiple places. Your document could have
>> five hundred \starttopica...\stoptopica blocks on different pages.
>> A figure identifier, on the other hand, is meant to be unique.
>>
>> Pont
> Hi Pont,
> Thanks for your comment. I realized this. There would of course be only one "\starttopica...\stoptopica block" in my text. If I would like to use delimited texts in this manner for several different topics, I would simply give them different names. Each topic its own name, like [topicb], [topicc], etc. Like you would do if you wanted to use slightly different types of blockquote in your document.
> So my question: "Why can some identifiers, for example of figures, be used for internal references and others not?" remains unanswered.
> Best regards,
> Robert
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference
[not found] <mailman.24.1344331200.14247.ntg-context@ntg.nl>
@ 2012-08-07 9:44 ` Robert Blackstone
2012-08-07 10:47 ` Sietse Brouwer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Robert Blackstone @ 2012-08-07 9:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On 7 aug. 2012, Pontus Lurcock <pont@talvi.net>
wrote
>
> On Tue 07 Aug 2012, Robert Blackstone wrote:
>
>> Here follows my minimal example. I reasoned that the identifier [topica] might act as a label, or an anchor, or whatever the correct ConTeXt name is, for a reference.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> \definedelimitedtext[topica]
>> \setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous? I do not need a layout different from the rest of the text.
>> \starttext
>>
>> Some text.
>>
>> \starttopica
>> Some text to explain a certain topic, called topica.
>> \stoptopica
>>
>> Some more text about topica. (See discussion on \at{page}[topica])
>>
>> \stoptext
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To avoid any misunderstanding: this is no longer a problem since I have been given excellent advice. But it intrigues me. Why can some identifiers, for example of figures, be used for internal references and others not?
>
> In this case, I'd say it's because you're defining a delimited text
> style which can be used in multiple places. Your document could have
> five hundred \starttopica...\stoptopica blocks on different pages.
> A figure identifier, on the other hand, is meant to be unique.
>
> Pont
Hi Pont,
Thanks for your comment. I realized this. There would of course be only one "\starttopica...\stoptopica block" in my text. If I would like to use delimited texts in this manner for several different topics, I would simply give them different names. Each topic its own name, like [topicb], [topicc], etc. Like you would do if you wanted to use slightly different types of blockquote in your document.
So my question: "Why can some identifiers, for example of figures, be used for internal references and others not?" remains unanswered.
Best regards,
Robert
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference
2012-08-07 7:42 ` Robert Blackstone
@ 2012-08-07 8:03 ` Pontus Lurcock
2012-08-07 15:42 ` Wolfgang Schuster
1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Pontus Lurcock @ 2012-08-07 8:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On Tue 07 Aug 2012, Robert Blackstone wrote:
> Here follows my minimal example. I reasoned that the identifier [topica] might act as a label, or an anchor, or whatever the correct ConTeXt name is, for a reference.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> \definedelimitedtext[topica]
> \setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous? I do not need a layout different from the rest of the text.
> \starttext
>
> Some text.
>
> \starttopica
> Some text to explain a certain topic, called topica.
> \stoptopica
>
> Some more text about topica. (See discussion on \at{page}[topica])
>
> \stoptext
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To avoid any misunderstanding: this is no longer a problem since I have been given excellent advice. But it intrigues me. Why can some identifiers, for example of figures, be used for internal references and others not?
In this case, I'd say it's because you're defining a delimited text
style which can be used in multiple places. Your document could have
five hundred \starttopica...\stoptopica blocks on different pages.
A figure identifier, on the other hand, is meant to be unique.
Pont
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference
[not found] <mailman.10.1344285220.14247.ntg-context@ntg.nl>
@ 2012-08-07 7:42 ` Robert Blackstone
2012-08-07 8:03 ` Pontus Lurcock
2012-08-07 15:42 ` Wolfgang Schuster
0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Robert Blackstone @ 2012-08-07 7:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On 6 aug. 2012, Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>
wrote
>
> On 6 aug. 2012, Mon, 6 Aug 2012 14:16:09 +020
> Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster@gmail.com> wrote
>> Am 06.08.2012 um 09:41 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Thank you Marco. Another very useful tool for me. I realize now that many things with labels can be used as anchors for references, and I'm still a bit surprised that a delimited text with a label cannot be used that way.
>>
>> Where has the delimited text in your example a label?
>>
>> Wolfgang
>
>
> I had not included a minimal example but I had run some trials. Since they did not work, and you gave me a good solution, I trashed them. I kept the pdf's though, in which I included the source. So I can reconstruct the examples.
> I'll try to make it again tomorrow morning. I would be interested to learn what sort of errors I committed.
> Kind regards,
> Robert Blackstone
Here follows my minimal example. I reasoned that the identifier [topica] might act as a label, or an anchor, or whatever the correct ConTeXt name is, for a reference.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\definedelimitedtext[topica]
\setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous? I do not need a layout different from the rest of the text.
\starttext
Some text.
\starttopica
Some text to explain a certain topic, called topica.
\stoptopica
Some more text about topica. (See discussion on \at{page}[topica])
\stoptext
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
To avoid any misunderstanding: this is no longer a problem since I have been given excellent advice. But it intrigues me. Why can some identifiers, for example of figures, be used for internal references and others not?
Best regards,
Robert Blackstone
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference
[not found] <mailman.7.1344276418.14247.ntg-context@ntg.nl>
@ 2012-08-06 20:07 ` Robert Blackstone
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Robert Blackstone @ 2012-08-06 20:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On 6 aug. 2012, Mon, 6 Aug 2012 14:16:09 +020
Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster@gmail.com> wrote
> Am 06.08.2012 um 09:41 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:
>
>> Thank you Marco. Another very useful tool for me. I realize now that many things with labels can be used as anchors for references, and I'm still a bit surprised that a delimited text with a label cannot be used that way.
>
> Where has the delimited text in your example a label?
>
> Wolfgang
I had not included a minimal example but I had run some trials. Since they did not work, and you gave me a good solution, I trashed them. I kept the pdf's though, in which I included the source. So I can reconstruct the examples.
I'll try to make it again tomorrow morning. I would be interested to learn what sort of errors I committed.
Kind regards,
Robert Blackstone
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference
[not found] <mailman.1.1344177459.17520.ntg-context@ntg.nl>
@ 2012-08-05 15:59 ` Robert Blackstone
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Robert Blackstone @ 2012-08-05 15:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 16:37:36 +0200
> Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster@gmail.com>
> wrote
>
> Am 05.08.2012 um 16:05 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:
>
>>
>> How can I refer to some text, for example a discussion of a particular topic, on another page or in another chapter of my document with, for instance "(See discussion on page xx)"?
>
> You can set your own references in the text with \pagereference:
>
> \starttext
>
> This is the first topic.\pagereference[topic:1]
>
> \page
>
> This is another topic.\pagereference[topic:2]
>
> \blank
>
> This example contains two topic, the first topic is on \at{page}[topic:1] and the second on \at{page}[topic:2].
>
> \stoptext
>
> Wolfgang
Thank you very much, Wolfgang. Marvelously simple and effective.
Kind regards,
Robert Blackstone
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference
2012-08-05 14:05 Robert Blackstone
2012-08-05 14:37 ` Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2012-08-05 14:38 ` Marco Patzer
1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Marco Patzer @ 2012-08-05 14:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
Hi Robert,
\starttext
See \in{section}[sec:foo] on \at{page}[sec:foo]
or the text on \at{page}[ref:a].
\page
\startsection [title=Foo, reference=sec:foo]
\stopsection
\page
Some text\reference[ref:a]
\stoptext
Marco
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference
2012-08-05 14:05 Robert Blackstone
@ 2012-08-05 14:37 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2012-08-05 14:38 ` Marco Patzer
1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2012-08-05 14:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Am 05.08.2012 um 16:05 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:
> Dear list,
>
> How can I refer to some text, for example a discussion of a particular topic, on another page or in another chapter of my document with, for instance "(See discussion on page xx)"?
> I tried to do this by marking the relevant text as a delimited text without altering its layout:
> \definedelimitedtext[topica]
> \setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous?
> \starttopica
> some text
> \stoptopica
>
> and then, further on, referring to that text with (See discussion on \at{page}[topica])
> But this does not work (mkiv 27-07).
With \definedelimtedtext you can create your own quote and quotation command or environment.
You can set your own references in the text with \pagereference:
\starttext
This is the first topic.\pagereference[topic:1]
\page
This is another topic.\pagereference[topic:2]
\blank
This example contains two topic, the first topic is on \at{page}[topic:1] and the second on \at{page}[topic:2].
\stoptext
Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Marking a textfragment for later reference
@ 2012-08-05 14:05 Robert Blackstone
2012-08-05 14:37 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2012-08-05 14:38 ` Marco Patzer
0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Robert Blackstone @ 2012-08-05 14:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
Dear list,
How can I refer to some text, for example a discussion of a particular topic, on another page or in another chapter of my document with, for instance "(See discussion on page xx)"?
I tried to do this by marking the relevant text as a delimited text without altering its layout:
\definedelimitedtext[topica]
\setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous?
\starttopica
some text
\stoptopica
and then, further on, referring to that text with (See discussion on \at{page}[topica])
But this does not work (mkiv 27-07).
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Best regards,
Robert Blackstone
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
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2012-08-06 7:41 ` Marking a textfragment for later reference Robert Blackstone
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2012-08-08 7:48 ` Robert Blackstone
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2012-08-07 9:44 ` Robert Blackstone
2012-08-07 10:47 ` Sietse Brouwer
[not found] <mailman.10.1344285220.14247.ntg-context@ntg.nl>
2012-08-07 7:42 ` Robert Blackstone
2012-08-07 8:03 ` Pontus Lurcock
2012-08-07 15:42 ` Wolfgang Schuster
[not found] <mailman.7.1344276418.14247.ntg-context@ntg.nl>
2012-08-06 20:07 ` Robert Blackstone
[not found] <mailman.1.1344177459.17520.ntg-context@ntg.nl>
2012-08-05 15:59 ` Robert Blackstone
2012-08-05 14:05 Robert Blackstone
2012-08-05 14:37 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2012-08-05 14:38 ` Marco Patzer
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