Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/21/2008 2:22 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> i leave it to others to react on the rest of your mail (some users have
> been tuning the mechanism too)
>
> Hans


On 11/21/2008 9:45 AM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> 
> Am 21.11.2008 um 16:35 schrieb Lars Huttar:
> 
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Did either of you, Aditya or Steffen, have success modifying how URLs
>> are wrapped? Did you do it by using \sethyphenatedurlbefore/etc.?
>>
>> I'm trying to finish a production project and am stuck on this problem.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Lars
> 
> 
> Hi Lars,
> 
> ... no, I am still hoping for a fix for that.
> 
> As far as I have seen also Mojca asked for "How to influence hyphenation
> points in URLs?"
> And even her got no answer! That's a bad sign ;o)
> 
> Steffen

On 11/21/2008 9:52 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> No, I had a deadline and in the end, I did URL breaking by hand, using
> \break at appropriate places. But it was a short article (4/5 pages).
>
> Aditya


So as far as we know, nobody has successfully used
\sethyphenatedurlbefore/after/etc. to tune the url-breaking mechanism.
Has anybody else on the list done this?

If not, maybe the mkii implementation has never worked for that
purpose... it's possible, since urls are breaking after hyphens when
lang-url.mkii says to break before hyphens.

If this is the case (\sethyphenatedbefore/after in mkii is broken), then
rather than awaiting a fix for the soon-obsolete mkii implementation,
maybe I can do a workaround. I need help with the tex details though,
please, as I am still very much a tex newbie...

We are generating our tex document, so verbosity is not a problem, but
irregularity would be.
Rather than inserting \break in various places manually, which would
have to be redone often, I could automatically insert \discretionary or
\allowbreak before/after the appropriate characters in the tex document.
Would that work?
How would I suppress hyphenation at other points -- \dontleavehmode or
something like that?

Thanks again,

Lars


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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/21/2008 12:01 PM, Lars Huttar wrote:
> 
> So as far as we know, nobody has successfully used
> \sethyphenatedurlbefore/after/etc. to tune the url-breaking mechanism.
> Has anybody else on the list done this?
> 
> If not, maybe the mkii implementation has never worked for that
> purpose... it's possible, since urls are breaking after hyphens when
> lang-url.mkii says to break before hyphens.
> 
> If this is the case (\sethyphenatedbefore/after in mkii is broken), then
> rather than awaiting a fix for the soon-obsolete mkii implementation,
> maybe I can do a workaround. I need help with the tex details though,
> please, as I am still very much a tex newbie...
> 
> We are generating our tex document, so verbosity is not a problem, but
> irregularity would be.
> Rather than inserting \break in various places manually, which would
> have to be redone often, I could automatically insert \discretionary or
> \allowbreak before/after the appropriate characters in the tex document.
> Would that work?
> How would I suppress hyphenation at other points -- \dontleavehmode or
> something like that?


OK... I have a working workaround... close your eyes, because it's ugly.

I just put \hbox{} around the sections that we don't want broken, and
\discretionary{}{}{} in the places we will allow a break:
	\hbox{http://}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{www}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{.sil}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{.org/}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{silesr/}...

One of our URLs goes from 89 to 391 characters!  :-p

Maybe posting this awful kluge to the list will motivate someone who
knows TeX better to post a more elegant solution. :-)

Ugly as it is, it does allow me to control exactly where I want to allow
a break and where I don't. So I'll go with that for now, in order to
meet our deadline.

I'm sure someone could write a TeX macro to do the above algorithmically
instead of brute-force specifying every possible break point explicitly.

But that's what \hyphenatedurl is supposed to be, and it doesn't seem to
be working for me.

Regards,
Lars





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Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Lars Huttar wrote:
> On 11/21/2008 12:01 PM, Lars Huttar wrote:
>>
>> So as far as we know, nobody has successfully used
>> \sethyphenatedurlbefore/after/etc. to tune the url-breaking mechanism.
>> Has anybody else on the list done this?
>
> OK... I have a working workaround... close your eyes, because it's ugly.
>
> I just put \hbox{} around the sections that we don't want broken, and
> \discretionary{}{}{} in the places we will allow a break:
>        \hbox{http://}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{www}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{.sil}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{.org/}\discretionary{}{}{}\hbox{silesr/}...
>
> One of our URLs goes from 89 to 391 characters!  :-p
>
> Maybe posting this awful kluge to the list will motivate someone who
> knows TeX better to post a more elegant solution. :-)

I don't know many details about TeX, but simple tests like the one
below seem to work:

\bgroup
\catcode`\:=11
\catcode`\/=11
\catcode`\~=11
\catcode`\,=11
\catcode`\-=11
\catcode`\_=11
\catcode`\?=11

\lccode`\:=`\:
\lccode`\/=`\/
\lccode`\~=`\~
\lccode`\,=`\,
\lccode`\-=`\-
\lccode`\_=`\_
\lccode`\?=`\?

% not sure how to handle the dot, but this seems to work
\catcode`\.=11
\catcode`\^=11
\lccode`\^=`\.

\patterns{
8:3 % break after  : (never before)
3^8 % break before . (never after)
8/3 % break after  / (never before)
3~8 % break before ~ (never after)
3,8
3-8
3_8
3?8
}
\egroup


And then an ugly document (after selecting the proper language):

\bgroup
\catcode`\:=11
\catcode`\.=11
\catcode`\/=11
\catcode`\~=11
\catcode`\,=11
\catcode`\-=11
\catcode`\_=11
\catcode`\?=11

\lccode`\:=`\:
\lccode`\.=`\.
\lccode`\/=`\/
\lccode`\~=`\~
\lccode`\,=`\,
\lccode`\-=`\-
\lccode`\_=`\_
\lccode`\?=`\?

\showhyphens{http://www.sil.org/silesr/}

hello
\egroup

This returns
     http://-www-.sil-.org/-silesr/
But one would need to complete the rules above (should be almost
trivial), and of course one would need to write all the needed macros
to use the "url language" automatically when typesetting URLs.

Mojca
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Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

 > hack hack hack hack ....

I tried solutions with special patterns sveral times but the problem is 
in mixed languages, i.e. english text mixed with url-language; there are 
some limitations (in pdftex for instance the same codes are used fo rthe 
whole par (i.e. mixed languages are possible but with the same lccodes 
etc). Also, one needs to get rid of the -

Anyhow, there is another trick, one that Aditya might love ...

\bgroup

\gdef\lettercolon{:}

\catcode`\:=\active
\catcode`\^=\active
\catcode`\/=\active
\catcode`\~=\active

\gdef\ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks#1%
   {\dontleavehmode
    \begingroup
    \mathcode`\:="8000
    \mathcode`\^="8000
    \mathcode`\/="8000
    \mathcode`\~="8000
    \def:{\nobreak   \hbox{\lettercolon}\allowbreak}%
    \def^{\allowbreak\hbox{\letterhat  }\nobreak}%
    \def/{\nobreak   \hbox{\letterslash}\allowbreak}%
    \def~{\allowbreak\hbox{\lettertilde}\nobreak}%
    \everymath\emptytoks
    \mathsurround\zeropoint$\tttf#1$%
    \endgroup}

\egroup

\hsize 1mm \ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks{http://www.sil.org/silesr/}


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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
>  > hack hack hack hack ....
>
> I tried solutions with special patterns sveral times but the problem is
> in mixed languages, i.e. english text mixed with url-language; there are
> some limitations (in pdftex for instance the same codes are used fo rthe
> whole par (i.e. mixed languages are possible but with the same lccodes
> etc). Also, one needs to get rid of the -

Whooops! I didn't know about those limitations (same catcodes in
paragraph, no language mixing). It seemed like a clean solution to me,
but apparently it's not. (Sorry for the brainwash.)

Mojca
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line of text after a table

[Albrecht Kauffmann]

Hi all,

would it be able to write a line after a table or figure (e.g.: "Data
source: ...") that will be handled as a part of the float object?

With many thanks for any hint,
Albrecht



On Sat, 22 Nov 2008, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> > Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> >
> >  > hack hack hack hack ....
> >
> > I tried solutions with special patterns sveral times but the problem is
> > in mixed languages, i.e. english text mixed with url-language; there are
> > some limitations (in pdftex for instance the same codes are used fo rthe
> > whole par (i.e. mixed languages are possible but with the same lccodes
> > etc). Also, one needs to get rid of the -
>
> Whooops! I didn't know about those limitations (same catcodes in
> paragraph, no language mixing). It seemed like a clean solution to me,
> but apparently it's not. (Sorry for the brainwash.)
>
> Mojca
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: line of text after a table

[Taco Hoekwater]

Albrecht Kauffmann wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> would it be able to write a line after a table or figure (e.g.: "Data
> source: ...") that will be handled as a part of the float object?
> 

Just do
   \placefigure[]{}{\externalfigure[cow.pdf]\crlf Data source: .. }

Best wishes,
Taco

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Re: line of text after a table

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote:
> Albrecht Kauffmann wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> would it be able to write a line after a table or figure (e.g.: "Data
>> source: ...") that will be handled as a part of the float object?
>>
>
> Just do
>   \placefigure[]{}{\externalfigure[cow.pdf]\crlf Data source: .. }

\placefigure[]{}{\placelegend{\externalfigure[cow.pdf]}{Data source: ...}}

Regards,
Wolfgang
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/21/2008 4:53 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> 
>  > hack hack hack hack ....
> 
> I tried solutions with special patterns sveral times but the problem is 
> in mixed languages, i.e. english text mixed with url-language; there are 
> some limitations (in pdftex for instance the same codes are used fo rthe 
> whole par (i.e. mixed languages are possible but with the same lccodes 
> etc). Also, one needs to get rid of the -
> 
> Anyhow, there is another trick, one that Aditya might love ...
> 
> \bgroup
> 
> \gdef\lettercolon{:}
> 
> \catcode`\:=\active
> \catcode`\^=\active
> \catcode`\/=\active
> \catcode`\~=\active
> 
> \gdef\ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks#1%
>    {\dontleavehmode
>     \begingroup
>     \mathcode`\:="8000
>     \mathcode`\^="8000
>     \mathcode`\/="8000
>     \mathcode`\~="8000
>     \def:{\nobreak   \hbox{\lettercolon}\allowbreak}%
>     \def^{\allowbreak\hbox{\letterhat  }\nobreak}%
>     \def/{\nobreak   \hbox{\letterslash}\allowbreak}%
>     \def~{\allowbreak\hbox{\lettertilde}\nobreak}%
>     \everymath\emptytoks
>     \mathsurround\zeropoint$\tttf#1$%
>     \endgroup}
> 
> \egroup
> 
> \hsize 1mm \ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks{http://www.sil.org/silesr/}
> 

Thanks, this is great.

Looks like, as in improvement over \hyphenatedurl, it allows you to
specify that you can break before a character, after, or both.

I think I can even see how to use it in a document...
though, would I have to undo the initial \catcode commands after the
\egroup?

Also, I don't see a way to prevent breaking between two slashes...
unless you treat them as part of a separate hbox:
   \hbox{http://}\ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks{www.sil.org/silesr/}
which is not a big problem.

Thanks,
Lars
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Hans Hagen]

Lars Huttar wrote:

> Also, I don't see a way to prevent breaking between two slashes...
> unless you treat them as part of a separate hbox:
>    \hbox{http://}\ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks{www.sil.org/silesr/}
> which is not a big problem.

it's no problem to catch the // but in general this method is not that 
generic since font changes in math are somewhat limited and kerning is 
gone too

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Lars Huttar]

On 11/24/2008 8:45 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Lars Huttar wrote:
> 
>> Also, I don't see a way to prevent breaking between two slashes...
>> unless you treat them as part of a separate hbox:
>>    \hbox{http://}\ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks{www.sil.org/silesr/}
>> which is not a big problem.
> 
> it's no problem to catch the // but in general this method is not that 
> generic since font changes in math are somewhat limited and kerning is 
> gone too

Oh... so my ugly \hbox{...}\discretionary{}{}{} method eliminates
kerning? Bummer...

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Re: line of text after a table

[Albrecht Kauffmann]

Dear ConTeXtuals,

a few days ago I asked this question but got not any answer. I think it is
an important issue to couple a comment with a float (e.g. a table or
figure) that has to be moved together with the float, similarly to local
footnotes. Has someone solved this problem already somehow or other?

With many thanks for hints,
Albrecht

On Sat, 22 Nov 2008, Albrecht Kauffmann wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> would it be able to write a line after a table or figure (e.g.: "Data
> source: ...") that will be handled as a part of the float object?
>
> With many thanks for any hint,
> Albrecht
>
>
>
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> > > Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> > >
> > >  > hack hack hack hack ....
> > >
> > > I tried solutions with special patterns sveral times but the problem is
> > > in mixed languages, i.e. english text mixed with url-language; there are
> > > some limitations (in pdftex for instance the same codes are used fo rthe
> > > whole par (i.e. mixed languages are possible but with the same lccodes
> > > etc). Also, one needs to get rid of the -
> >
> > Whooops! I didn't know about those limitations (same catcodes in
> > paragraph, no language mixing). It seemed like a clean solution to me,
> > but apparently it's not. (Sorry for the brainwash.)
> >
> > Mojca
> > ___________________________________________________________________________________
> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> >
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> > webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> > archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> > wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> > ___________________________________________________________________________________
> >
>
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Am 21.11.2008 um 23:53 schrieb Hans Hagen:

> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
>> hack hack hack hack ....
>
> I tried solutions with special patterns sveral times but the problem  
> is
> in mixed languages, i.e. english text mixed with url-language; there  
> are
> some limitations (in pdftex for instance the same codes are used fo  
> rthe
> whole par (i.e. mixed languages are possible but with the same lccodes
> etc). Also, one needs to get rid of the -
>
> Anyhow, there is another trick, one that Aditya might love ...
>
> \bgroup
>
> \gdef\lettercolon{:}
>
> \catcode`\:=\active
> \catcode`\^=\active
> \catcode`\/=\active
> \catcode`\~=\active
>
> \gdef\ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks#1%
>   {\dontleavehmode
>    \begingroup
>    \mathcode`\:="8000
>    \mathcode`\^="8000
>    \mathcode`\/="8000
>    \mathcode`\~="8000
>    \def:{\nobreak   \hbox{\lettercolon}\allowbreak}%
>    \def^{\allowbreak\hbox{\letterhat  }\nobreak}%
>    \def/{\nobreak   \hbox{\letterslash}\allowbreak}%
>    \def~{\allowbreak\hbox{\lettertilde}\nobreak}%
>    \everymath\emptytoks
>    \mathsurround\zeropoint$\tttf#1$%
>    \endgroup}
>
> \egroup
>
> \hsize 1mm \ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks{http://www.sil.org/silesr/}



Conclusion please:

Is \ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks an improvement of \hyphenatedurls
in terms of being closer to this "Chicago style" sort of standard?

[And thus being part of next beta?]

Or is it a personal hack, fitting Lars' needs?


Steffen
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: modifying URL wrapping rules

[Hans Hagen]

Steffen Wolfrum wrote:

> Conclusion please:
> 
> Is \ForMojcaWhoLikesHacks an improvement of \hyphenatedurls
> in terms of being closer to this "Chicago style" sort of standard?

no, a hack just for mojca, not finished, and since inmath mode hardly 
configurable with respect to fonts etc

> [And thus being part of next beta?]

no, onluy as comment

> Or is it a personal hack, fitting Lars' needs?

not even that but if it serves that purpose, fine

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

line of text after a table

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Hallo Albrecht,

hast Du diese (siehe Anhang) beiden Antworten übersehen?

MfG, Steffen.


Anfang der weitergeleiteten E-Mail:

> Von: Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com>
> Datum: 24. November 2008 09:20:32 MEZ
> An: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
> Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] line of text after a table
> Antwort an: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
>
> Albrecht Kauffmann wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> would it be able to write a line after a table or figure (e.g.: "Data
>> source: ...") that will be handled as a part of the float object?
>>
>
> Just do
>   \placefigure[]{}{\externalfigure[cow.pdf]\crlf Data source: .. }
>
> Best wishes,
> Taco
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
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Anfang der weitergeleiteten E-Mail:

> Von: "Wolfgang Schuster" <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com>
> Datum: 24. November 2008 09:32:19 MEZ
> An: "mailing list for ConTeXt users" <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
> Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] line of text after a table
> Antwort an: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
>
> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com>  
> wrote:
>> Albrecht Kauffmann wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> would it be able to write a line after a table or figure (e.g.:  
>>> "Data
>>> source: ...") that will be handled as a part of the float object?
>>>
>>
>> Just do
>>  \placefigure[]{}{\externalfigure[cow.pdf]\crlf Data source: .. }
>
> \placefigure[]{}{\placelegend{\externalfigure[cow.pdf]}{Data  
> source: ...}}
>
> Regards,
> Wolfgang
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________