math set

math set

[Hans Hagen]

Hi, 

In math schoolbooks N Z R and alike are used to denote sets (natural
numbers and so). Does anyone know where and in what fonts these symbols are
and how they are called in english?

Hans  
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                                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
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Re: math set

[s. knypstra]

Hi,

> In math schoolbooks N Z R and alike are used to denote sets (natural
> numbers and so). Does anyone know where and in what fonts these symbols
are
> and how they are called in english?

I'm not sure whether a special font is involved.
In my LaTeX style file I found definitions for  R and C which I
probably once copied from someone else:

\def\R{\it{I\kern-0.65ex R}}
\def\C{\it{\kern.3ex\vrule height1.55ex depth-.05ex width.03em\kern-.9ex C}}

Greetings,

Sytse.

S.Knypstra@eco.rug.nl

Re: math set

[Peter Kessels]

Hans Hagen wrote:

> Hi,
>
> In math schoolbooks N Z R and alike are used to denote sets (natural
> numbers and so). Does anyone know where and in what fonts these symbols are
> and how they are called in english?

They are in family 12 of the Lucida Math fonts, with A at position 65,
so:

\setupbodyfont[lbr]

$\mathchar3150$  gives N
$\mathchar3154$  gives R
$\mathchar3162$  gives Z

Greetings,

Peter Kessels

Re: math set (correction)

[Peter Kessels]

Peter Kessels wrote:

> Hans Hagen wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > In math schoolbooks N Z R and alike are used to denote sets (natural
> > numbers and so). Does anyone know where and in what fonts these symbols are
> > and how they are called in english?
>
> They are in family 12 of the Lucida Math fonts, with A at position 65,
> so:
>
> \setupbodyfont[lbr]
>
> $\mathchar3150$  gives N
> $\mathchar3154$  gives R
> $\mathchar3162$  gives Z

Uhm, I took a better look, and noticed they are probably not exactly what you
need, except for the C, Z and some others. In the N, the diagonal has a double
line, not the left 'leg' . I would use them myself, though....

Greetings,

Peter Kessels

Re: math set

[Tobias Burnus]

Hi Hans,

> In math schoolbooks N Z R and alike are used to denote sets (natural
> numbers and so). Does anyone know where and in what fonts these symbols are
> and how they are called in english?

I used the ones from the AMS font ($\Bbb N$), which is also in Taco's
outline font (except for the vertical mirrored A). Another method is to
use $\bf N$ (usually not $\bi N$) or to use a bold, sans-serif N, Z, Q,
R, C. There are some other alternatives like constructing (IN + \kern),
but those doesn't look that well (especially the C). There are some MF
fonts which provide something which looks more like a CMR letter.

The rule says that this extra lines/strokes in the sets are only used
for blackboards (therefore \Bbb), but shouldn't be used in typesetting
since they are ugly and can be replaced by bold.

I nether the less use usually the AMS symbols.

Tobias

Re: math set

[Giuseppe Bilotta (Oblomov)]

They are called BlackBoard symbols; the AMS font set has them (don't
remember the name).

----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>
To: <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 2:37 PM
Subject: math set

> Hi,
>
> In math schoolbooks N Z R and alike are used to denote sets (natural
> numbers and so). Does anyone know where and in what fonts these symbols
are
> and how they are called in english?
>
> Hans
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

Re: math set

[Marc van Dongen]

Giuseppe Bilotta (Oblomov) (oblomov@freemail.it) wrote:

: They are called BlackBoard symbols; the AMS font set has them (don't
: remember the name).

In the ``Not so Short Introduction to LaTeX2E'' on
page 48 it is stated that you can get them using the
\mathbb command using amsfonts or amssymb.

: > In math schoolbooks N Z R and alike are used to denote sets (natural
: > numbers and so). Does anyone know where and in what fonts these symbols
: are
: > and how they are called in english?

I don't know if there's a standard name fo them.
Personally I use
 $\Nset$ $\Zset$, $\Qset$, $\Rset$ and $\Cset$.

Perhaps
 $\naturalnumbers$,
 $\integers$,
 $\rationalnumbers$,
 $\realnumbers$ and
 $\complexnumbers$ is a bit neater.

Regards,

Marc van Dongen

Re: math set

[Hraban]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> In math schoolbooks N Z R and alike are used to denote sets (natural
> numbers and so). Does anyone know where and in what fonts these symbols are
> and how they are called in english?

They're called "blackboard bold".

LaTeX uses them with the following packages:
- amsfonts (A--Z, k)
- mathbbol (complete alphabet with greek, uses bbold fonts)

The german LaTeX FAQ tells, there'd be the fonts:
- bbold (sans, complete, by Alain Jeffrey)
- doublestroke (sans and serif, caps and "1, k, h", by Olaf Kummer)
- bbm (several variants, by Gilles F. Robert)

I remember an other free(?) blackboard font at http://www.yandy.com

I found an reference to an article by Gerd Neugebauer in "Die TeXnische
Komödie" 4/1996, 1/1997 about several possibilities.
And there should be a file "blackboard.ps" at CTAN:doc/blackboard

-- 
Grütze für alle!

Hraban.

Re: math set

[HoHo]

Hi,

I have a font metrics msbm**.tfm (and font itself, of course) in both, my
emTeX and TeXLive4 installations available.

Try 

tex testfont

on, for example,  msbm10 as its parameter. You will see if this font fits
your needs. I guess you will have to define abbreviations for them
yourself via \mathord because I can't find any predefined.

'Cause I'm not too familiar with using math fonts, I'm using the following
syntax with \hbox for set of real numbers:
\font\mathset=msbm10
\def\Rset{\mathord{\hbox{\mathset R}}}

BTW: Better solutions are welcome. Thanx.

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http://www.fi.muni.cz/~xholecek
http://www.physics.muni.cz/~hoho

Re: math set

[HoHo]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Tobias Burnus wrote:

> The rule says that this extra lines/strokes in the sets are only used
> for blackboards (therefore \Bbb), but shouldn't be used in typesetting
> since they are ugly and can be replaced by bold.

Yes, it can be a rule to use blackboard symbols on the blackboar and not
on paper. But everyone use blackboard symbols on paper too, if one knows
how to get them there. That's my experience.

Greetings

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  |-| | | |-| | |
  | | |_| | | |_|
http://www.fi.muni.cz/~xholecek
http://www.physics.muni.cz/~hoho

Re: math set

[Hans Hagen]

At 01:29 AM 9/13/00 +0200, HoHo wrote:
>On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Tobias Burnus wrote:
>  
>> The rule says that this extra lines/strokes in the sets are only used
>> for blackboards (therefore \Bbb), but shouldn't be used in typesetting
>> since they are ugly and can be replaced by bold.
>
>Yes, it can be a rule to use blackboard symbols on the blackboar and not
>on paper. But everyone use blackboard symbols on paper too, if one knows
>how to get them there. That's my experience.

In educational school math they are used (at least in NL) so maybe to
represent what the pupils have to write down or what the teacher writes on
the board. 

Thanks for all suggestions (from everyone). I'll see how I can plug them
into either the symbol handler or maybe a dedicated math symbol handler.

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------