Re: Building format with TeX [and Omega]

Re: Building format with TeX [and Omega]

[Behnam Tabatabai]

Thank you Hans for your answer. You don't need to change anything in 
"supp-pdf.tex", because it works fine as is.

In fact I had messed up my Context installation, which normaly resides under 
my "localtexmf\tex\context", but I had forgotten some old files from a 
previous installation under "texmf\tex\context\base". After removing the old 
context files from "texmf\..." the problem is solved.

I'm sorry for this.

>I strongly suggest you to use pdfetex, since that way you got quite some
>goodies for free
>

I do use pdftex as my default tex-engine. The reason for creating other 
formats was that I was experimenting to use Omega+Context, where I 
encountered this problem, and so tried the same using TeX and eTeX.

Appropos Omega:
--------------
I have already tried the Omega specific commands (direction switching 
commands and OTP's) in some small Context documents and the results are very 
good: I used the Omega commands "\pagedir TRT" etc. for right-to-left, as 
well as a chain of OTP's for mapping from ISIRI (8-bit standard for Persian) 
to Unicode, context analysis, etc., for some Persian text. I was very 
impressed by the results!

Unfortunately I know too little about Context/TeX to be able to set up by my 
own a clean language environment for Farsi (and other right-to-left scripts 
like Arabic and Hebrew) using these features. However if somebody starts 
that, I would be very happy to contribute my part (at least to the language 
specific issues).

Regards,
Behnam
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Re: Building format with TeX [and Omega]

[Hans Hagen]

At 11:47 AM 9/15/00 CEST, Behnam Tabatabai wrote:

>Appropos Omega:
>--------------
>I have already tried the Omega specific commands (direction switching 
>commands and OTP's) in some small Context documents and the results are very 
>good: I used the Omega commands "\pagedir TRT" etc. for right-to-left, as 
>well as a chain of OTP's for mapping from ISIRI (8-bit standard for Persian) 
>to Unicode, context analysis, etc., for some Persian text. I was very 
>impressed by the results!
>
>Unfortunately I know too little about Context/TeX to be able to set up by my 
>own a clean language environment for Farsi (and other right-to-left scripts 
>like Arabic and Hebrew) using these features. However if somebody starts 
>that, I would be very happy to contribute my part (at least to the language 
>specific issues).

I can look into that if I have the resources (fonts and so). One thing to
sort out [i did some experiments with etex] is to get color things and so
right, due to special swapping. No big deal, once i know the problems at
hand.  

Where can I find the (really) latest omega specs? [since i also want to
look into the tex->xml part]

Hans
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                                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
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Re: Building format with TeX [and Omega]

[Tobias Burnus]

> Where can I find the (really) latest omega specs? [since i also want to
> look into the tex->xml part]
I think this might be a good starter, though it isn't that up to date.
http://www.gutenberg.eu.org/omega/

Tobias

Re: Building format with TeX [and Omega]

[Radhakrishnan C V]

On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Tobias Burnus wrote:

: > Where can I find the (really) latest omega specs? [since i also want to
: > look into the tex->xml part]
: I think this might be a good starter, though it isn't that up to date.
: http://www.gutenberg.eu.org/omega/

The latest version is available at:

  ftp://ftp.cse.unsw.edu.au/users/plaice/Omega

The TeX ==> XML/MathML primitives are excellent. It might become a
choice of TeX users for generating other markup forms.

It simply pipes out ASCII XML/MathML instead of a dvi in MMLmode!

-- 
Radhakrishnan

Example for Persian

[Behnam Tabatabai]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
> I can look into that if I have the resources (fonts and so). One thing to
> sort out [i did some experiments with etex] is to get color things and so
> right, due to special swapping. No big deal, once i know the problems at
> hand.
> 

I have uploaded an example for utf-8 encoded Persian text to be used
with Context+Omega to http://meineseite.i-one.at/behnam-tabatabai/
I would be very thankful if you would have a look into it.

> Where can I find the (really) latest omega specs? [since i also want to
> look into the tex->xml part]
> 
> Hans

The only Omega documentation I know is "omega-doc-1.8.tar.gz" in
/CTAN/systems/omega. You find there also the latest library stuff and
cweb sources for version 1.15. Concerning TeX ==> XML/MathML primitives
I must admit that they are totally unknown to me. Perhaps I have not
read the documentation carefully enough.

Regards,
Behnam

Re: Example for Persian

[Radhakrishnan C V]

On Sat, 16 Sep 2000, Behnam Tabatabai wrote:

: The only Omega documentation I know is "omega-doc-1.8.tar.gz" in
: /CTAN/systems/omega. You find there also the latest library stuff and
: cweb sources for version 1.15. Concerning TeX ==> XML/MathML primitives
: I must admit that they are totally unknown to me. Perhaps I have not
: read the documentation carefully enough.

There is absolutely no documentation for XML/MathML, except one article
in French by Yannis which is available at: 

 http://genepi.louis-jean.com/omega/lyonmathml.pdf

But it is very basic and doesn't say anything about the primitives
available. You can find the summary of this article in "Goossens et
al: LaTeX Web Companion" (MathML section).

I just scanned through the original Web sources of Omega and discovered
around 26 primitives (which seem to be sufficient to write a decent
filter package), the usage of which has been discovered through trial
and error. 

Hans, Behnam, if you need these, I can send you the list of primitives
with usage I found, so that you can save a hell of time. Also, you can
help me, if you discover anything new. I am sorry to say that Yannis and
John Plaice are absolutely silent and didn't bother to reply any of my
mails on this problem.

-- 
Radhakrishnan

Re: Example for Persian

[Hans Hagen]

At 11:08 PM 9/16/00 +0200, Behnam Tabatabai wrote:

>I have uploaded an example for utf-8 encoded Persian text to be used
>with Context+Omega to http://meineseite.i-one.at/behnam-tabatabai/
>I would be very thankful if you would have a look into it.

We may continue this thread off list, but some aspects may be interesting
to others so let me for the moment use the list:

Your file says: 

\font\OMARAB=omarab

far better is a definition like

\definefont[OMARAB][omarab sa 1] 

because it adapts itself to the body font size. Even better, if the beta
version we change the following [i'll add it to the beta]. 

\def\dododefinefont#1#2%
  {\parsefontspec[#2]{\bodyfontsize}{*#1*}\getvalue{*#1*}}

the \OMARAB\ command will now honor changes in size halfway the document
[for those interested: there is no real delay in resolving the font spec
each time and since persian is not used in math formulas, we don't need the
tex family concept here; this \definefotn mechanism is btw more powerful
than it may seem at first sight, since it scales, maps, etc quite nicely].

Then there is the OTP mechanism, which chains a series of filters. Whet we
need there is something similar, like (maybe we can leave the synonym here,
and auto resolve indirect mappings)

\definefiltersynonym [OTF8 to UNICODE16]   [inutf8]
\definefiltersynonym [farsi to arabic]     [FarsiToArabic]
\definefiltersynonym [preprocess arabic]   [uni2cuni]
\definefiltersynonym [build arabic glyphs] [cuni2oar]

next there is: 

\definefiltersequence[Farsi][OTF8 to UNICODE16, farsi to arabic, preprocess
arabic, build arabic glyphs]

[what is the 1000 in \ocplist\OCPListFarsiUTF=\addbeforeocplist 1000
\OCPutf ?]

[it's no problem to call sequences inside filter sequences] 

now we can say: 

\Farsi\OMARABIC

and get thoce nice sequences of glyphs. In this way we can hide the otp
interface and protect macros. 

Hans

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
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