page-break after \section

page-break after \section

[Peter Münster]

Hello,

in the following example, there is a page-break after the second section
title. \page[no] does not help.

Is this normal or a bug?

\starttext
\section{bla}
\dorecurse{36}{bla\par}
\section{bla}
\page[no]
\startitemize
\dorecurse{5}{\item bla}
\stopitemize
\stoptext

Cheers, Peter

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Re: page-break after \section

[luigi scarso]

On 3/20/07, Peter Münster <pmlists@free.fr> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> in the following example, there is a page-break after the second section
> title. \page[no] does not help.
>
> Is this normal or a bug?
Normal, I believe
>
> \starttext
> \section{bla}
> \dorecurse{36}{bla\par}
> \section{bla}
> \page[no]
> \startitemize
> \dorecurse{5}{\item bla}
> \stopitemize
> \stoptext

try this
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
\showframe
\starttext
\section{bla}
\dorecurse{36}{bla\par}
\section{bla}
\page[no]
\startitemize
\dorecurse{5}{\item bla}
\stopitemize
\stoptext
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

and this
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%5
\showframe
\starttext
\section{bla}
\dorecurse{34}{bla\par}%%%% not 35 or 36 !
\section{bla}
\page[no]
\startitemize
\dorecurse{5}{\item bla}
\stopitemize
\stoptext
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

maybe some defaults spaces of \section

luigi

Re: page-break after \section

[Peter Münster]

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007, luigi scarso wrote:

> > in the following example, there is a page-break after the second section
> > title. \page[no] does not help.
> >
> > Is this normal or a bug?
> Normal, I believe

Too bad. I think, there can be still some enhancements: in LaTeX, there
is never a page break after a section header, but with ConTeXt there is
sometimes by surprise...

> try this
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> \showframe
> \starttext
> \section{bla}
> \dorecurse{36}{bla\par}
> \section{bla}
> \page[no]
> \startitemize
> \dorecurse{5}{\item bla}
> \stopitemize
> \stoptext
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

There is still a page break + a frame.

> and this
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%5
> \showframe
> \starttext
> \section{bla}
> \dorecurse{34}{bla\par}%%%% not 35 or 36 !
> \section{bla}
> \page[no]
> \startitemize
> \dorecurse{5}{\item bla}
> \stopitemize
> \stoptext
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

No more page break after the section head, but that's normal: you changed
the number of lines.

Cheers, Peter

-- 
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

Re: page-break after \section

[Hans Hagen]

� wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Mar 2007, luigi scarso wrote:
>
>   
>>> in the following example, there is a page-break after the second section
>>> title. \page[no] does not help.
>>>
>>> Is this normal or a bug?
>>>       
>> Normal, I believe
>>     
>
> Too bad. I think, there can be still some enhancements: in LaTeX, there
> is never a page break after a section header, but with ConTeXt there is
> sometimes by surprise...
>   
well, it depends, if the next structure does a vskip of some testing 
then there can be a page break

there is no robust way to prevent this in current tex, at least nog when 
some spacing mechansism are used, ok, a penalty 10000 may sometimes 
help, but even then, successive skips and such may interfere

also, vskip12pt \penalty vskip12pt ma not what you want (i.e. collapsing 
becomes tricky)

context sectioning has some prevent-break stuff

you can add a penalty 10000 if you know what you're dealing with

Hans

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Re: page-break after \section

[Peter Münster]

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Hans Hagen wrote:

> well, it depends, if the next structure does a vskip of some testing 
> then there can be a page break
> 
> there is no robust way to prevent this in current tex, at least nog when 
> some spacing mechansism are used, ok, a penalty 10000 may sometimes 
> help, but even then, successive skips and such may interfere

Thanks for your explanation!
Do you know, how the LaTeX people solved this problem? I've never had such
surprises with LaTeX.

> you can add a penalty 10000 if you know what you're dealing with

Ok, I'll try it.

Cheers, Peter

-- 
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

Re: page-break after \section

[Hans Hagen]

� wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
>   
>> well, it depends, if the next structure does a vskip of some testing 
>> then there can be a page break
>>
>> there is no robust way to prevent this in current tex, at least nog when 
>> some spacing mechansism are used, ok, a penalty 10000 may sometimes 
>> help, but even then, successive skips and such may interfere
>>     
>
> Thanks for your explanation!
> Do you know, how the LaTeX people solved this problem? I've never had such
> surprises with LaTeX.
>   
i dunno, but i remember problems with splits between chapter, section and subsection heads and context prohibits that; *any* tex where some construct introduces whitespace has this problem but i can imagine some tricky stuff with the otr involved (and even then there may be interference with preceding material); i do (did) observe that latex has a different spacing model (and interfering penalties may be a reason why sometimes spacing gets messed up); 

i will implement a second spacing model once luatex is available 

in tex, when one has a controlled situation, solutions are possible but context is rather configurable

\setuphead[section][after=\blank\pelanty10000\relax] may help but also mess up spacing 

(esp floats are hard to interface with such things because they also look at the available space and currently don't look back; keep in mind that when looking back the content is already put in the mlv and ther ei sno knowledg ewhat is preceding the current structure 



Hans 


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              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: page-break after \section

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> 
>> Thanks for your explanation! Do you know, how the LaTeX people
>> solved this problem? I've never had such surprises with LaTeX.
>> 
> ...
> interference with preceding material); i do (did) observe that latex
> has a different spacing model (and interfering penalties may be a
> reason why sometimes spacing gets messed up);

LaTeX is pretty good in keeping section heads together with
the following material, but the tradeoff is that sometimes it
inserts massive amounts of whitespace on a page, because a section
head and a subsection head and the following first two paragraph
lines all appear after an automatically inserted pagebreak.

IIRC, it also makes float placements harder to predict.

Best wishes,
Taco

Re: page-break after \section

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Peter Münster wrote:

> Hello,
>
> in the following example, there is a page-break after the second section
> title. \page[no] does not help.
>
> Is this normal or a bug?
>
> \starttext
> \section{bla}
> \dorecurse{36}{bla\par}
> \section{bla}
> \page[no]
> \startitemize
> \dorecurse{5}{\item bla}
> \stopitemize
> \stoptext
>

(Untested) Did you try:

\startitemize[intro]

AFAIU, intro prevents a page break before itemize.

Aditya

Re: page-break after \section

[Peter Münster]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

> (Untested) Did you try:
> 
> \startitemize[intro]
> 
> AFAIU, intro prevents a page break before itemize.

Thanks, this works!
Cheers, Peter

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http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/