Re: Footnotes in margin? (HELP!)

Re: Footnotes in margin? (HELP!)

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Hans,

I don't know what crazy stuff Idris is using this footnotes for,
but for my case it went absolutely horrible: Almost every page gets half empty!!

It looks like the footnotes are just moved to the margin - leaving empty space, without the body text comes flush bottom again. I'm sure my publisher won't be amused about all this empty paper...

It tried to send a minimal example and changed just the text between \starttext and \stoptext.

Maybe there is something that could be changed in order to get the main text in flush bottom shape again AND keep the corresponding footnotes in the margin?


Steffen
(Sorry Hans, but I tried for three hours now to understand and change the source without any chance...)



\showframe

\definenote[mynote][way=bypage,location=text,width=\marginwidth,rule=,before=]

\setuplayout[backspace=5cm,margin=3cm,margindistance=.5cm,width=middle]

\setuptexttexts
  [margin]
  [\vbox to \textheight{\placenotes[mynote]\vfill}]
  []

\starttext

\dorecurse{3}{\input knuth \par \input tufte \mynote{\input knuth \par}\par}

\stoptext





Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> 
> >does ConTeXt provide a way to place footnote (not margin notes!) per page - but not below the body text?
> >A suitable place could be the margin. But there is no "\setupfootnotes[location=inmargin]"
> >and somthing like "\inmargin{\footnote{}The footnote's text.}" doesn't flow.
> >
> >Does anybody know a working solution?
> >  
> >
> Idris should know since i made him definable footnotes -) 
> 
> \showframe
> 
> \definenote[mynote][way=bypage,location=text,width=\marginwidth,rule=,before=]
> 
> \setuplayout[backspace=5cm,margin=3cm,margindistance=.5cm,width=middle]
> 
> \setuptexttexts
>   [margin]
>   [\vbox to \textheight{\placenotes[mynote]\vfill}]
>   []
> 
> \starttext
> 
> test \mynote{one} test \mynote{two} \page
> test \mynote{one} test \mynote{two} \page
> test \mynote{one} test \mynote{two} \page
> test \mynote{one} test \mynote{two} \page
> 
> \stoptext
> 
> or a bit more modern (structured, readable, replacable): 
> 
> \setuptexttexts
>   [margin]
>   [\setups{flushmynotes}]
>   []
> 
> \startsetups flushmynotes
> 
>   \vbox to \textheight{\placenotes[mynote]\vfill}
> 
> \stopsetups
> 
> So, it's up to you to feed this in the wiki -) 
> 
> Hans 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

Re: Re: Footnotes in margin? (HELP!)

[Willi Egger]

Hi Steffen,

I tried your code and indeed I am getting also half-empty pages.

I tried then the following:
I replaced the dorecurse by

\input knuth \mynote{knuth} \blank[1cm] \input ward \mynote{ward} 
\blank[1cm]
\input knuth \mynote{knuth} \blank[1cm] \input ward \mynote{ward} 
\blank[1cm]
\input knuth \mynote{knuth} \blank[1cm] \input ward \mynote{ward} 
\blank[1cm]
\input knuth \mynote{knuth} \blank[1cm] \input ward \mynote{ward} \page

This fills pages and the \mynotes are placed in the margin.

However I played also with text in one of the \mynotes. As long as the 
text is short i.e. not longer than one width of the margin everything is 
o.k. Once the text becomes longer, the page on which the \mynote is 
placed shortens increasing with the length of the \mynote.

So there must be a reason which is beyond my knowledge for this behaviour.

Willi

Steffen Wolfrum wrote:

> Hans,
> 
> I don't know what crazy stuff Idris is using this footnotes for,
> but for my case it went absolutely horrible: Almost every page gets half empty!!
> 
> It looks like the footnotes are just moved to the margin - leaving empty space, without the body text comes flush bottom again. I'm sure my publisher won't be amused about all this empty paper...
> 
> It tried to send a minimal example and changed just the text between \starttext and \stoptext.
> 
> Maybe there is something that could be changed in order to get the main text in flush bottom shape again AND keep the corresponding footnotes in the margin?
> 
> 
> Steffen
> (Sorry Hans, but I tried for three hours now to understand and change the source without any chance...)
> 
> 
> 
> \showframe
> 
> \definenote[mynote][way=bypage,location=text,width=\marginwidth,rule=,before=]
> 
> \setuplayout[backspace=5cm,margin=3cm,margindistance=.5cm,width=middle]
> 
> \setuptexttexts
>   [margin]
>   [\vbox to \textheight{\placenotes[mynote]\vfill}]
>   []
> 
> \starttext
> 
> \dorecurse{3}{\input knuth \par \input tufte \mynote{\input knuth \par}\par}
> 
> \stoptext
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>>
>>
>>>does ConTeXt provide a way to place footnote (not margin notes!) per page - but not below the body text?
>>>A suitable place could be the margin. But there is no "\setupfootnotes[location=inmargin]"
>>>and somthing like "\inmargin{\footnote{}The footnote's text.}" doesn't flow.
>>>
>>>Does anybody know a working solution?
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>Idris should know since i made him definable footnotes -) 
>>
>>\showframe
>>
>>\definenote[mynote][way=bypage,location=text,width=\marginwidth,rule=,before=]
>>
>>\setuplayout[backspace=5cm,margin=3cm,margindistance=.5cm,width=middle]
>>
>>\setuptexttexts
>>  [margin]
>>  [\vbox to \textheight{\placenotes[mynote]\vfill}]
>>  []
>>
>>\starttext
>>
>>test \mynote{one} test \mynote{two} \page
>>test \mynote{one} test \mynote{two} \page
>>test \mynote{one} test \mynote{two} \page
>>test \mynote{one} test \mynote{two} \page
>>
>>\stoptext
>>
>>or a bit more modern (structured, readable, replacable): 
>>
>>\setuptexttexts
>>  [margin]
>>  [\setups{flushmynotes}]
>>  []
>>
>>\startsetups flushmynotes
>>
>>  \vbox to \textheight{\placenotes[mynote]\vfill}
>>
>>\stopsetups
>>
>>So, it's up to you to feed this in the wiki -) 
>>
>>Hans 
>>
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>>                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>ntg-context mailing list
>>ntg-context@ntg.nl
>>http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

Re: Footnotes in margin? (HELP!)

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Maybe the wrong height is calculated?

When we have the normal situation footnote per page, the space available is spilt for text and footnotes.
In our margin construction now it seems to be still the same. 
When we would use the footnotes as endnotes, TeX would calculated the text per page for the entire height.

So is it possible to define the space that is available per page (for text + footnote) as a combination of the normal height plus the space in the margin?
I don't have an idea how to code this in plain TeX (or whatever language is used for ConTeXt), but maybe someone else knows?


Steffen




>Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:59:17 +0200
>To: ConTeXt
>From: Steffen Wolfrum <context@st.estfiles.de>
>Subject: Re: Footnotes in margin? (HELP!)
>Cc: 
>Bcc: 
>X-Attachments: 
>
>Henning Hraban Ramm <hraban@fiee.net> wrote:
>
>> Am 25.08.2004 um 22:40 schrieb Steffen Wolfrum:
>> 
>> > that's also what I experienced: the code works with very small 
>> > footnotes.
>> > I am working now on a thesis with kind of normal equipment:
>> > Some hundred pages, about 900 footnotes with lots of them quite long 
>> > (seems to be normal nowadays for art-historians).
>> > So what to do?
>> 
>> How do you imagine to fit that large footnotes into the margin?
>> Is your margin wider than your text area?
>
>
>
>That's not the problem. 
>Don't forget that I just posted a minimal example to show the generel effect as also seen by Willi. 
>In my documents the figures are different of course: the footnote size is smaller, the margin space higher etc.
>
>So it's not the problem that the footnotes don't fit. 
>It's more that they are *still below* the text as before - now as empty space.
>
>(You can easily make the test: Take a regular document with footnotes per page below the text. Then use the code to get the footnotes in the margin. You will see that the body text doesn't change at all. It's just the notes moving and leaving empty space behind)
> 
>
>Steffen
>

Re: Footnotes in margin? (HELP!)

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Henning Hraban Ramm <hraban@fiee.net> wrote:

> Am 25.08.2004 um 22:40 schrieb Steffen Wolfrum:
> 
> > that's also what I experienced: the code works with very small 
> > footnotes.
> > I am working now on a thesis with kind of normal equipment:
> > Some hundred pages, about 900 footnotes with lots of them quite long 
> > (seems to be normal nowadays for art-historians).
> > So what to do?
> 
> How do you imagine to fit that large footnotes into the margin?
> Is your margin wider than your text area?



That's not the problem. 
Don't forget that I just posted a minimal example to show the generel effect as also seen by Willi. 
In my documents the figures are different of course: the footnote size is smaller, the margin space higher etc.

So it's not the problem that the footnotes don't fit. 
It's more that they are *still below* the text as before - now as empty space.

(You can easily make the test: Take a regular document with footnotes per page below the text. Then use the code to get the footnotes in the margin. You will see that the body text doesn't change at all. It's just the notes moving and leaving empty space behind)
 

Steffen

Re: Footnotes in margin? (HELP!)

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Hi Willi,

that's also what I experienced: the code works with very small footnotes.

I am working now on a thesis with kind of normal equipment: 
Some hundred pages, about 900 footnotes with lots of them quite long (seems to be normal nowadays for art-historians).

So what to do?

Steffen






Willi Egger <w.egger@boede.nl> wrote:

> Hi Steffen,
> 
> I tried your code and indeed I am getting also half-empty pages.
> 
> I tried then the following:
> I replaced the dorecurse by
> 
> \input knuth \mynote{knuth} \blank[1cm] \input ward \mynote{ward} 
> \blank[1cm]
> \input knuth \mynote{knuth} \blank[1cm] \input ward \mynote{ward} 
> \blank[1cm]
> \input knuth \mynote{knuth} \blank[1cm] \input ward \mynote{ward} 
> \blank[1cm]
> \input knuth \mynote{knuth} \blank[1cm] \input ward \mynote{ward} \page
> 
> This fills pages and the \mynotes are placed in the margin.
> 
> However I played also with text in one of the \mynotes. As long as the 
> text is short i.e. not longer than one width of the margin everything is 
> o.k. Once the text becomes longer, the page on which the \mynote is 
> placed shortens increasing with the length of the \mynote.
> 
> So there must be a reason which is beyond my knowledge for this behaviour.
> 
> Willi
> 
> Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> 
> > Hans,
> > 
> > I don't know what crazy stuff Idris is using this footnotes for,
> > but for my case it went absolutely horrible: Almost every page gets half empty!!
> > 
> > It looks like the footnotes are just moved to the margin - leaving empty space, without the body text comes flush bottom again. I'm sure my publisher won't be amused about all this empty paper...
> > 
> > It tried to send a minimal example and changed just the text between \starttext and \stoptext.
> > 
> > Maybe there is something that could be changed in order to get the main text in flush bottom shape again AND keep the corresponding footnotes in the margin?
> > 
> > 
> > Steffen
> > (Sorry Hans, but I tried for three hours now to understand and change the source without any chance...)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > \showframe
> > 
> > \definenote[mynote][way=bypage,location=text,width=\marginwidth,rule=,before=]
> > 
> > \setuplayout[backspace=5cm,margin=3cm,margindistance=.5cm,width=middle]
> > 
> > \setuptexttexts
> >   [margin]
> >   [\vbox to \textheight{\placenotes[mynote]\vfill}]
> >   []
> > 
> > \starttext
> > 
> > \dorecurse{3}{\input knuth \par \input tufte \mynote{\input knuth \par}\par}
> > 
> > \stoptext
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>does ConTeXt provide a way to place footnote (not margin notes!) per page - but not below the body text?
> >>>A suitable place could be the margin. But there is no "\setupfootnotes[location=inmargin]"
> >>>and somthing like "\inmargin{\footnote{}The footnote's text.}" doesn't flow.
> >>>
> >>>Does anybody know a working solution?
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>
> >>Idris should know since i made him definable footnotes -) 
> >>
> >>\showframe
> >>
> >>\definenote[mynote][way=bypage,location=text,width=\marginwidth,rule=,before=]
> >>
> >>\setuplayout[backspace=5cm,margin=3cm,margindistance=.5cm,width=middle]
> >>
> >>\setuptexttexts
> >>  [margin]
> >>  [\vbox to \textheight{\placenotes[mynote]\vfill}]
> >>  []
> >>
> >>\starttext
> >>
> >>test \mynote{one} test \mynote{two} \page
> >>test \mynote{one} test \mynote{two} \page
> >>test \mynote{one} test \mynote{two} \page
> >>test \mynote{one} test \mynote{two} \page
> >>
> >>\stoptext
> >>
> >>or a bit more modern (structured, readable, replacable): 
> >>
> >>\setuptexttexts
> >>  [margin]
> >>  [\setups{flushmynotes}]
> >>  []
> >>
> >>\startsetups flushmynotes
> >>
> >>  \vbox to \textheight{\placenotes[mynote]\vfill}
> >>
> >>\stopsetups
> >>
> >>So, it's up to you to feed this in the wiki -) 
> >>
> >>Hans