From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/96470 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jonas Baggett Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Ideas for improving documentation of ConTeXt Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 23:05:40 +0200 Message-ID: References: <57FAADBE.3050703@gmail.com> <9c16c6a0-2c9f-3205-36ef-21e7cb41bdfc@tranquille.ch> <24923648-13b2-ccb0-146e-47183a22a43a@wxs.nl> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7644209802105963973==" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476220002 27056 195.159.176.226 (11 Oct 2016 21:06:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 21:06:42 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.2.0 To: ntg-context@ntg.nl Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Tue Oct 11 23:06:37 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from zapf.boekplan.nl ([5.39.185.232] helo=zapf.ntg.nl) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bu4Fw-0006Nr-Np for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 23:06:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33A751ABB8; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 23:05:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 46fuTSDxim_z; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 23:05:54 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68A881ABC3; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 23:05:54 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAC3A1A825 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 23:05:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e2uznfjLGDbY for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 23:05:51 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from smtp-sh2.infomaniak.ch (smtp-sh2.infomaniak.ch [128.65.195.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 663371A6E4 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 23:05:41 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from smtp6.infomaniak.ch (smtp6.infomaniak.ch [83.166.132.19]) by smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u9BL5eVC002497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 23:05:40 +0200 Original-Received: from [192.168.178.29] ([194.191.235.173]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp6.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u9BL5esi052463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 23:05:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: <24923648-13b2-ccb0-146e-47183a22a43a@wxs.nl> X-Antivirus: Dr.Web (R) for Unix mail servers drweb plugin ver.6.0.2.8 X-Antivirus-Code: 0x100000 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: "ntg-context" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:96470 Archived-At: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============7644209802105963973== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------4ACAEE30441C76BF30D52D01" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4ACAEE30441C76BF30D52D01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le 10. 10. 16 à 09:24, Hans Hagen a écrit : > What context installation do you use? The reference is the one on the > context garden. Each year tex lives has a snapshot of that one. So, > first make sure you run the latest version. I am using version 2016.05.17 19:20. I saw that context live is using version 2016.05.19 13:43, so I have fast the latest version. > Concerning old manuals: they often refer to mkii but with mkiv we have > different (often better) solutions. The examplap code and examples are > mkii and also relate to pdf trickery and as pdf evolved it became more > clear what was bound to acrobat i.e. not picked up (ignored) by open > source alternatives and therefore less relevant. Ok, I didn't know that about the pdf format. Thanks for the information. > An important source are the setup-*.pdf files as these describe the > interface which is described in the interface definition files (in xml > format). These have recently be updated by Wolfgang and are very accurate. Yes, that was one of the thinks I was looking for, thanks ! > You mentioned that keys (functionality) that disappears should be > somehow documented but normally no functionality disappears. What > happened was that mkiv has some more (because it's possible) and less > (because it was no longer needed) than mkii and has been made more > consistent. I was more thinking about commands or commands option becoming deprecated and replaced by another way of making thinks. But it is also true that I tried to make the moderncv interface work from the letter module but its interface is now gone. I didn't notice at first that the letter module is still under development which means its interfaces aren't stable. So it seems now that what I was saying doesn't really apply to ConTeXt's core. >>> The wiki has a page for examples and you’re free to update the >>> existing examples or add new ones. >> >> Do you mean http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Sample_documents ? Yes, that's >> a good idea, since I believe that it is a way to improve documentation >> with little efforts. Then I plan to add the cover letter style I made >> since I am happy with the results, although 1 or 2 things could have >> some improvement. There are also some letter styles there, then I will >> have a look on them too. I don't know if people are intimidated about >> writing contents in the wiki because it is the official wiki and feel >> that only programmers are supposed to update it, but it will be really >> helpfull if the users have more the habit of posting there the document >> styles they made. > > Indeed. My cover letter template is now maturing, since it is only the beginning I am using it, but I believe it will be ready soon to be posted in the wiki :-). >>> Sounds interesting and the best thing you can do is to start with it. >> >> Thanks for your encouragement ! Yes that looks like an interesting >> challenge for me, but it is not something I am wanting to do alone >> because of my lack of experience, at least I would need someone to coach >> me. Actually I don't have really experience with web developpment and I >> would at least need help for the technological choices. Having someone >> that tells me that if I use technology X, there are module Y and Z that >> will be a good fit is a good start. > > This will only work when someone takes the lead. If you do that you > then others will help you. If you need something special on the wiki, > just discuss it with Taco and Mojca who deal with the technicalities. OK, it is still an idea that needs maturation. I know I tend to be quickly enthusiastic about an idea and overly optimistic about my abilities to implement it which means that I eventually end giving up. So now I need some thinking about the idea, about if I am ready to invest the needed time. Maybe the task is to big for me but there could be a less time consuming solution that can be OK although not as great. Or I could still go for the original idea with being clear about what I can do and how much time I can invest to and how much help I need to complete what I couldn't reasonably do. Cheers, Jonas --------------4ACAEE30441C76BF30D52D01 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le 10. 10. 16 à 09:24, Hans Hagen a écrit :
What context installation do you use? The reference is the one on the context garden. Each year tex lives has a snapshot of that one. So, first make sure you run the latest version.

I am using version 2016.05.17 19:20. I saw that context live is using version 2016.05.19 13:43, so I have fast the latest version.

Concerning old manuals: they often refer to mkii but with mkiv we have different (often better) solutions. The examplap code and examples are mkii and also relate to pdf trickery and as pdf evolved it became more clear what was bound to acrobat i.e. not picked up (ignored) by open source alternatives and therefore less relevant.

Ok, I didn't know that about the pdf format. Thanks for the information.

An important source are the setup-*.pdf files as these describe the interface which is described in the interface definition files (in xml format). These have recently be updated by Wolfgang and are very accurate.

Yes, that was one of the thinks I was looking for, thanks !

You mentioned that keys (functionality) that disappears should be somehow documented but normally no functionality disappears. What happened was that mkiv has some more (because it's possible) and less (because it was no longer needed) than mkii and has been made more consistent.

I was more thinking about commands or commands option becoming deprecated and replaced by another way of making thinks. But it is also true that I tried to make the moderncv interface work from the letter module but its interface is now gone. I didn't notice at first that the letter module is still under development which means its interfaces aren't stable. So it seems now that what I was saying doesn't really apply to ConTeXt's core.

The wiki has a page for examples and you’re free to update the
existing examples or add new ones.

Do you mean http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Sample_documents ? Yes, that's
a good idea, since I believe that it is a way to improve documentation
with little efforts. Then I plan to add the cover letter style I made
since I am happy with the results, although 1 or 2 things could have
some improvement. There are also some letter styles there, then I will
have a look on them too. I don't know if people are intimidated about
writing contents in the wiki because it is the official wiki and feel
that only programmers are supposed to update it, but it will be really
helpfull if the users have more the habit of posting there the document
styles they made.

Indeed.

My cover letter template is now maturing, since it is only the beginning I am using it, but I believe it will be ready soon to be posted in the wiki :-).

Sounds interesting and the best thing you can do is to start with it.

Thanks for your encouragement ! Yes that looks like an interesting
challenge for me, but it is not something I am wanting to do alone
because of my lack of experience, at least I would need someone to coach
me. Actually I don't have really experience with web developpment and I
would at least need help for the technological choices. Having someone
that tells me that if I use technology X, there are module Y and Z that
will be a good fit is a good start.

This will only work when someone takes the lead. If you do that you then others will help you. If you need something special on the wiki, just discuss it with Taco and Mojca who deal with the technicalities.

OK, it is still an idea that needs maturation. I know I tend to be quickly enthusiastic about an idea and overly optimistic about my abilities to implement it which means that I eventually end giving up. So now I need some thinking about the idea, about if I am ready to invest the needed time. Maybe the task is to big for me but there could be a less time consuming solution that can be OK although not as great. Or I could still go for the original idea with being clear about what I can do and how much time I can invest to and how much help I need to complete what I couldn't reasonably do.

Cheers,
Jonas
--------------4ACAEE30441C76BF30D52D01-- --===============7644209802105963973== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KSWYgeW91ciBxdWVzdGlvbiBpcyBvZiBpbnRlcmVz dCB0byBvdGhlcnMgYXMgd2VsbCwgcGxlYXNlIGFkZCBhbiBlbnRyeSB0byB0aGUgV2lraSEKCm1h aWxsaXN0IDogbnRnLWNvbnRleHRAbnRnLm5sIC8gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5udGcubmwvbWFpbG1hbi9s aXN0aW5mby9udGctY29udGV4dAp3ZWJwYWdlICA6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucHJhZ21hLWFkZS5ubCAv IGh0dHA6Ly9jb250ZXh0LmFhbmhldC5uZXQKYXJjaGl2ZSAgOiBodHRwOi8vZm91bmRyeS5zdXBl bGVjLmZyL3Byb2plY3RzL2NvbnRleHRyZXYvCndpa2kgICAgIDogaHR0cDovL2NvbnRleHRnYXJk ZW4ubmV0Cl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f --===============7644209802105963973==--