Problem with setuptagging and ebgaramond font

Problem with setuptagging and ebgaramond font

[Rik Kabel]

This was submitted over a year ago, but probably got lost in the run-up 
to the 2015 annual meeting. It is still a problem with ConTeXt  ver: 
2016.11.18 22:20 MKIV beta  fmt: 2016.11.19  int: english/english 
luajittex, 1.0.1. I am happy to provide a pdf and log file, or other 
traces, if that helps.

%% When tagging state=start and the font is ebgaramond,
%%  no hyphens are printed at word breaks.
%%
%% When tagging state=start and the font is libertine,
%%  or any font other than ebgaramond that I have tried,
%%  hyphens are printed at word breaks.
%%
%% When tagging is not started and the font is ebgaramond,
%%  hyphens _are_ printed at word breaks.
%%

  \setuptagging[state=start]% remove this line for comparison
  \setupbodyfont[ebgaramond]% \setupbodyfont[libertine]

  \starttext

    \hsize7cm

    \input zapf \par
    \input zapf \par
    \input zapf \par
    \input zapf \par
    \input zapf \par
    \input zapf \par
  \stoptext

Bug, or error on my part?
-- 
Rik
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Re: Problem with setuptagging and ebgaramond font

[Rik Kabel]

On 2016-11-19 20:48, Rik Kabel wrote:
> This was submitted over a year ago, but probably got lost in the 
> run-up to the 2015 annual meeting. It is still a problem with ConTeXt  
> ver: 2016.11.18 22:20 MKIV beta  fmt: 2016.11.19  int: english/english 
> luajittex, 1.0.1. I am happy to provide a pdf and log file, or other 
> traces, if that helps.
>
> %% When tagging state=start and the font is ebgaramond,
> %%  no hyphens are printed at word breaks.
> %%
> %% When tagging state=start and the font is libertine,
> %%  or any font other than ebgaramond that I have tried,
> %%  hyphens are printed at word breaks.
> %%
> %% When tagging is not started and the font is ebgaramond,
> %%  hyphens _are_ printed at word breaks.
> %%
>
>  \setuptagging[state=start]% remove this line for comparison
>  \setupbodyfont[ebgaramond]% \setupbodyfont[libertine]
>
>  \starttext
>
>    \hsize7cm
>
>    \input zapf \par
>    \input zapf \par
>    \input zapf \par
>    \input zapf \par
>    \input zapf \par
>    \input zapf \par
>  \stoptext
>
> Bug, or error on my part?

Hmmm, it does work (the hyphenation, at least) with TL2016. Both logs 
show the same font files and typescript files.

-- 
Rik

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Re: Problem with setuptagging and ebgaramond font

[Rik]

On 2016-11-19 20:58, Rik Kabel wrote:
> Hmmm, it does work (the hyphenation, at least) with TL2016. Both logs 
> show the same font files and typescript files.
>
Sorry, I did not mean to say the same files, but files identical in 
content. The TL files are all from the TL directory. The standalone 
files are from the standalone distribution and from my Windows font 
directory. The font files originally were not the same version; TL2015 
has version 0.016+, while my Windows font directory had version 0.016. 
The typescript files are identical, one in the \ConTeXt directory, one 
in the TL2016 directory.

When I installed the TL2016 version of the fonts as system fonts (and 
cleared the font cache) I still have the problem. So, identical files, 
but different locations.

-- 
Rik

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Re: Problem with setuptagging and ebgaramond font

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/20/2016 3:39 AM, Rik wrote:
> On 2016-11-19 20:58, Rik Kabel wrote:
>> Hmmm, it does work (the hyphenation, at least) with TL2016. Both logs
>> show the same font files and typescript files.
>>
> Sorry, I did not mean to say the same files, but files identical in
> content. The TL files are all from the TL directory. The standalone
> files are from the standalone distribution and from my Windows font
> directory. The font files originally were not the same version; TL2015
> has version 0.016+, while my Windows font directory had version 0.016.
> The typescript files are identical, one in the \ConTeXt directory, one
> in the TL2016 directory.
>
> When I installed the TL2016 version of the fonts as system fonts (and
> cleared the font cache) I still have the problem. So, identical files,
> but different locations.

And the garden distribution? I see hyphens.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Problem with setuptagging and ebgaramond font

[Rik]

On 2016-11-20 05:52, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 11/20/2016 3:39 AM, Rik wrote:
>> On 2016-11-19 20:58, Rik Kabel wrote:
>>> Hmmm, it does work (the hyphenation, at least) with TL2016. Both logs
>>> show the same font files and typescript files.
>>>
>> Sorry, I did not mean to say the same files, but files identical in
>> content. The TL files are all from the TL directory. The standalone
>> files are from the standalone distribution and from my Windows font
>> directory. The font files originally were not the same version; TL2015
>> has version 0.016+, while my Windows font directory had version 0.016.
>> The typescript files are identical, one in the \ConTeXt directory, one
>> in the TL2016 directory.
>>
>> When I installed the TL2016 version of the fonts as system fonts (and
>> cleared the font cache) I still have the problem. So, identical files,
>> but different locations.
>
> And the garden distribution? I see hyphens.
Problem solved. Windows keeps multiple versions of a font file, even 
when it says it is replacing. A bit of file maintenance and all is well. 
Thank you for confirming that you see hyphens.

-- 
Rik
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Re: Problem with setuptagging and ebgaramond font

[Rik Kabel]

On 2016-11-20 11:51, Rik wrote:
> On 2016-11-20 05:52, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 11/20/2016 3:39 AM, Rik wrote:
>>> On 2016-11-19 20:58, Rik Kabel wrote:
>>>> Hmmm, it does work (the hyphenation, at least) with TL2016. Both logs
>>>> show the same font files and typescript files.
>>>>
>>> Sorry, I did not mean to say the same files, but files identical in
>>> content. The TL files are all from the TL directory. The standalone
>>> files are from the standalone distribution and from my Windows font
>>> directory. The font files originally were not the same version; TL2015
>>> has version 0.016+, while my Windows font directory had version 0.016.
>>> The typescript files are identical, one in the \ConTeXt directory, one
>>> in the TL2016 directory.
>>>
>>> When I installed the TL2016 version of the fonts as system fonts (and
>>> cleared the font cache) I still have the problem. So, identical files,
>>> but different locations.
>>
>> And the garden distribution? I see hyphens.
> Problem solved. Windows keeps multiple versions of a font file, even 
> when it says it is replacing. A bit of file maintenance and all is 
> well. Thank you for confirming that you see hyphens.
>
I still do not understand why \setuptagging[state=start] made a 
difference. Something there is hinky[1].

[1] Someone, or something, may be said to be hinky if it acts in a 
manner that arouses suspicion. The origin is obscure.

-- 
Rik

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Re: Problem with setuptagging and ebgaramond font

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/20/2016 6:17 PM, Rik Kabel wrote:
> On 2016-11-20 11:51, Rik wrote:
>> On 2016-11-20 05:52, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> On 11/20/2016 3:39 AM, Rik wrote:
>>>> On 2016-11-19 20:58, Rik Kabel wrote:
>>>>> Hmmm, it does work (the hyphenation, at least) with TL2016. Both logs
>>>>> show the same font files and typescript files.
>>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I did not mean to say the same files, but files identical in
>>>> content. The TL files are all from the TL directory. The standalone
>>>> files are from the standalone distribution and from my Windows font
>>>> directory. The font files originally were not the same version; TL2015
>>>> has version 0.016+, while my Windows font directory had version 0.016.
>>>> The typescript files are identical, one in the \ConTeXt directory, one
>>>> in the TL2016 directory.
>>>>
>>>> When I installed the TL2016 version of the fonts as system fonts (and
>>>> cleared the font cache) I still have the problem. So, identical files,
>>>> but different locations.
>>>
>>> And the garden distribution? I see hyphens.
>> Problem solved. Windows keeps multiple versions of a font file, even
>> when it says it is replacing. A bit of file maintenance and all is
>> well. Thank you for confirming that you see hyphens.
>>
> I still do not understand why \setuptagging[state=start] made a
> difference. Something there is hinky[1].
>
> [1] Someone, or something, may be said to be hinky if it acts in a
> manner that arouses suspicion. The origin is obscure.

hard to comment when i cannot reproduce it

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Problem with setuptagging and ebgaramond font

[Rik Kabel]

On 2016-11-20 13:37, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 11/20/2016 6:17 PM, Rik Kabel wrote:
>> I still do not understand why \setuptagging[state=start] made a
>> difference. Something there is hinky[1].
>>
>> [1] Someone, or something, may be said to be hinky if it acts in a
>> manner that arouses suspicion. The origin is obscure.
>
> hard to comment when i cannot reproduce it

The problem can be reproduced on my Windows 10 system by removing 
existing EBGaramond12 and installing EBGaramond12 from version 0.015d, 
followed by a cache clear. It is available on Georg Duffner's bitbucket 
at https://bitbucket.org/georgd/eb-garamond/downloads. The problem I had 
before was ensuring that the old versions of the font files were 
actually removed -- I found versions with _0 and _1 suffixes that did 
not show up in explorer and were not removable by an administrator in a 
command prompt terminal. Other tools allowed their removal.

-- 
Riikk

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Re: Problem with setuptagging and ebgaramond font

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/21/2016 2:54 AM, Rik Kabel wrote:
> On 2016-11-20 13:37, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 11/20/2016 6:17 PM, Rik Kabel wrote:
>>> I still do not understand why \setuptagging[state=start] made a
>>> difference. Something there is hinky[1].
>>>
>>> [1] Someone, or something, may be said to be hinky if it acts in a
>>> manner that arouses suspicion. The origin is obscure.
>>
>> hard to comment when i cannot reproduce it
>
> The problem can be reproduced on my Windows 10 system by removing
> existing EBGaramond12 and installing EBGaramond12 from version 0.015d,
> followed by a cache clear. It is available on Georg Duffner's bitbucket
> at https://bitbucket.org/georgd/eb-garamond/downloads. The problem I had
> before was ensuring that the old versions of the font files were
> actually removed -- I found versions with _0 and _1 suffixes that did
> not show up in explorer and were not removable by an administrator in a
> command prompt terminal. Other tools allowed their removal.

the softhyphen in ebgaramond has zero width and no visualization .. i 
can patch that in the font (when loading) but can also consider it a bug 
in the font

(i'll make it configurable in tagging but that only obscures the issue)

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Problem with setuptagging and ebgaramond font

[Rik Kabel]

On 2016-11-21 05:59, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 11/21/2016 2:54 AM, Rik Kabel wrote:
>> On 2016-11-20 13:37, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> On 11/20/2016 6:17 PM, Rik Kabel wrote:
>>>> I still do not understand why \setuptagging[state=start] made a
>>>> difference. Something there is hinky[1].
>>>>
>>>> [1] Someone, or something, may be said to be hinky if it acts in a
>>>> manner that arouses suspicion. The origin is obscure.
>>>
>>> hard to comment when i cannot reproduce it
>>
>> The problem can be reproduced on my Windows 10 system by removing
>> existing EBGaramond12 and installing EBGaramond12 from version 0.015d,
>> followed by a cache clear. It is available on Georg Duffner's bitbucket
>> at https://bitbucket.org/georgd/eb-garamond/downloads. The problem I had
>> before was ensuring that the old versions of the font files were
>> actually removed -- I found versions with _0 and _1 suffixes that did
>> not show up in explorer and were not removable by an administrator in a
>> command prompt terminal. Other tools allowed their removal.
>
> the softhyphen in ebgaramond has zero width and no visualization .. i 
> can patch that in the font (when loading) but can also consider it a 
> bug in the font
>
> (i'll make it configurable in tagging but that only obscures the issue)
>
> Hans
>
Thank you, Hans.

As I said earlier, this is not a problem with the current version 
(0.016) of the font, so a fix in ConTeXt is not needed unless it can 
remediate the issue with other fonts as well.

My concern is that there was something that was amiss when tagging is in 
effect and I thought that this might help expose it.

-- 
Rik
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