Questions to font family Pagella

Questions to font family Pagella

[Tomas Hala]

Hi all,

I am doing some first tests with fonts (related with our font testing intentions)
and I found out that since 2015 there are two sets of files for pagella with the same metadata by otfinfo -i.

Eg.:

152192 /usr/local/texlive/2018/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/newpx/TeXGyrePagellaX-Regular.otf
144472 /usr/local/texlive/2018/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyrepagella-regular.otf

The only one difference is in the license note:
"Copyright 2013--2015 Michael Sharpe for added superior figures, letters and symbols." 
at files from newx directory.

1. 
Why the distribution (TL 2018) contains two versions of the same font family? 

2. 
How can I recognise which one was used for the document after \setupbodyfont[pagella]?

3.
On my disk I have got also one older version (1.011) of pagella (I do not where I took it from)
which contains more(!) characters than the current one (2.004) where eg. the subset of cyrillic characters is missing... 
Why the newer version contains less? 

Best wishes,

Tomáš

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Older:
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Family:              TeXGyrePagella
Subfamily:           Regular
Full name:           TeXGyrePagella-Regular
PostScript name:     TeXGyrePagella-Regular
Preferred family:    TeX Gyre Pagella
Version:             Version 1.011;PS 1.011;hotconv 1.0.49;makeotf.lib2.0.14853
Unique ID:           1.011;URW ;TeXGyrePagella-Regular
Trademark:           Please refer to the Copyright section for the font trademark attribution notices.
Copyright:           Copyright (URW)++, copyright 1999 by (URW)++ Design & Development; Cyrillic glyphs added by Valek Filippov, copyright 2001-2002; Vietnamese characters were added by Han The Thanh; copyright 2006, 2007 for TeX Gyre extensions by B. Jackowski and J.M. Nowacki (on behalf of TeX users groups). This work is released under the GUST Font License --  see http://tug.org/fonts/licenses/GUST-FONT-LICENSE.txt for details.
Vendor ID:           URW


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
/usr/local/texlive/2018/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/newpx/TeXGyrePagellaX-Regular.otf:
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Family:              TeXGyrePagellaX
Subfamily:           Regular
Full name:           TeXGyrePagellaX-Regular
PostScript name:     TeXGyrePagellaX-Regular
Preferred family:    TeX Gyre PagellaX
Version:             Version 2.004;PS 2.004;hotconv 1.0.49;makeotf.lib2.0.14853
Unique ID:           2.004;UKWN;TeXGyrePagella-Regular
Trademark:           Please refer to the Copyright section for the font trademark attribution notices.
Copyright:           Copyright 2006, 2009 for TeX Gyre extensions by B. Jackowski and J.M. Nowacki (on behalf of TeX users groups). This work is released under the GUST Font License --  see http://tug.org/fonts/licenses/GUST-FONT-LICENSE.txt for details.

Copyright 2013--2015 Michael Sharpe for added superior figures, letters and symbols.
Vendor ID:           UKWN

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
/usr/local/texlive/2018/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyrepagella-regular.otf:
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Family:              TeXGyrePagella
Subfamily:           Regular
Full name:           TeXGyrePagella-Regular
PostScript name:     TeXGyrePagella-Regular
Preferred family:    TeX Gyre Pagella
Version:             Version 2.004;PS 2.004;hotconv 1.0.49;makeotf.lib2.0.14853
Unique ID:           2.004;UKWN;TeXGyrePagella-Regular
Trademark:           Please refer to the Copyright section for the font trademark attribution notices.
Copyright:           Copyright 2006, 2009 for TeX Gyre extensions by B. Jackowski and J.M. Nowacki (on behalf of TeX users groups). This work is released under the GUST Font License --  see http://tug.org/fonts/licenses/GUST-FONT-LICENSE.txt for details.
Vendor ID:           UKWN

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
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Re: Questions to font family Pagella

[Hans Hagen]

On 10/12/2018 5:05 PM, Tomas Hala wrote:

> On my disk I have got also one older version (1.011) of pagella (I do not where I took it from)
> which contains more(!) characters than the current one (2.004) where eg. the subset of cyrillic characters is missing...
> Why the newer version contains less?

(1) cyrillic was bad and no one cared to check it so it was removed
(2) the latest version should have many symbols added (post texlive)

Hans



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Re: Questions to font family Pagella

[Tomas Hala]

Hans, thank you for the explanation, I agree, I did not like that cyrillic, too.

Does somebody know whether TeXGyre team plans some additions of cyrillic to their font collection? 

Tomáš

Fri, Oct 12, 2018 ve 07:27:50PM +0200 Hans Hagen napsal(a):
# On 10/12/2018 5:05 PM, Tomas Hala wrote:
# 
# >On my disk I have got also one older version (1.011) of pagella (I do not where I took it from)
# >which contains more(!) characters than the current one (2.004) where eg. the subset of cyrillic characters is missing...
# >Why the newer version contains less?
# 
# (1) cyrillic was bad and no one cared to check it so it was removed
# (2) the latest version should have many symbols added (post texlive)
# 
# Hans
# 
# 
# 
# -----------------------------------------------------------------
#                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
#               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
#        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
# -----------------------------------------------------------------

                                         Tomáš Hála
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Re: Questions to font family Pagella

[Arthur Reutenauer]

On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 11:31:42AM +0200, Tomas Hala wrote:
> Hans, thank you for the explanation, I agree, I did not like that cyrillic, too.
> 
> Does somebody know whether TeXGyre team plans some additions of cyrillic to their font collection? 

  The core team gave up on the idea of doing it themselves over ten
years ago and they’ve already have bad experiences with one previous
contributor (the one who made the glyphs they decided to remove), so I
suppose the answer to your question is “no” ;-)

	Best,

		Arthur
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Re: Questions to font family Pagella

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 10/17/18 11:48 AM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 11:31:42AM +0200, Tomas Hala wrote:
>> Hans, thank you for the explanation, I agree, I did not like that cyrillic, too.
>>
>> Does somebody know whether TeXGyre team plans some additions of cyrillic to their font collection? 
> 
>   The core team gave up on the idea of doing it themselves over ten
> years ago and they’ve already have bad experiences with one previous
> contributor (the one who made the glyphs they decided to remove), so I
> suppose the answer to your question is “no” ;-)

Arthur,

do you know if the new Greek glyphs will be extended to support
polytonic Greek?

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: Questions to font family Pagella

[Hans Hagen]

On 10/17/2018 6:17 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
> On 10/17/18 11:48 AM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 11:31:42AM +0200, Tomas Hala wrote:
>>> Hans, thank you for the explanation, I agree, I did not like that cyrillic, too.
>>>
>>> Does somebody know whether TeXGyre team plans some additions of cyrillic to their font collection?
>>
>>    The core team gave up on the idea of doing it themselves over ten
>> years ago and they’ve already have bad experiences with one previous
>> contributor (the one who made the glyphs they decided to remove), so I
>> suppose the answer to your question is “no” ;-)
> 
> Arthur,
> 
> do you know if the new Greek glyphs will be extended to support
> polytonic Greek?
Given the projects objective and the timeline it's unlikely to happen 
soon. It also doesn't help that greek nor cyrillic users are 
participating in the project.

Hans


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Questions to font family Pagella

[Arthur Reutenauer]

On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 06:17:22PM +0200, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
> do you know if the new Greek glyphs will be extended to support
> polytonic Greek?

  Not any more than Hans does, but I agree with his assessment that we
shouldn’t count on it.  I think it makes more sense to use different
fonts for different writing systems anyway, because it’s easier to find
good fonts that cover only one script; for example the Greek Font
Society (http://www.greekfontsociety-gfs.gr/) makes very good free
fonts, in many different styles.

	Best,

		Arthur
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Re: Questions to font family Pagella

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2018-10-18 um 15:51 schrieb Arthur Reutenauer <arthur.reutenauer@normalesup.org>:

> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 06:17:22PM +0200, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> do you know if the new Greek glyphs will be extended to support
>> polytonic Greek?
> 
>  Not any more than Hans does, but I agree with his assessment that we
> shouldn’t count on it.  I think it makes more sense to use different
> fonts for different writing systems anyway, because it’s easier to find
> good fonts that cover only one script; for example the Greek Font
> Society (http://www.greekfontsociety-gfs.gr/) makes very good free
> fonts, in many different styles.

BTW I’m trying to use GFS Neohellenic in a project, and while I like the "raw & ancient" style, the font’s spacing is not really beautiful, esp. the spaces are too wide. Can I change space width in a typescript?


Greetlings, Hraban
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Re: Questions to font family Pagella

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 10/18/18 3:51 PM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 06:17:22PM +0200, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> do you know if the new Greek glyphs will be extended to support
>> polytonic Greek?
> 
>   Not any more than Hans does, but I agree with his assessment that we
> shouldn’t count on it.  I think it makes more sense to use different
> fonts for different writing systems anyway, because it’s easier to find
> good fonts that cover only one script; for example the Greek Font
> Society (http://www.greekfontsociety-gfs.gr/) makes very good free
> fonts, in many different styles.

I use the Greek glyphs from GFS Didot for the Greek words of passages in
the documents I use with Pagella.

But for single letters (such as in heading numbers [12.A.γ] and
references to them), I would like to use the Greek glyphs that come with
Pagella.

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: Questions to font family Pagella

[Arthur Reutenauer]

> But for single letters (such as in heading numbers [12.A.γ] and
> references to them), I would like to use the Greek glyphs that come with
> Pagella.

  I see: it clearly makes sense to use the same font for Greek and Latin
in this particular case; but surely diacritics are not necessary?

	Best,

		Arthur
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Re: Questions to font family Pagella

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 10/18/18 10:25 PM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
>> But for single letters (such as in heading numbers [12.A.γ] and
>> references to them), I would like to use the Greek glyphs that come with
>> Pagella.
> 
>   I see: it clearly makes sense to use the same font for Greek and Latin
> in this particular case; but surely diacritics are not necessary?

Not in the case of single letters for heading numbers and their references.

I don’t use Greek numbers, but the lowercase Greek letters.

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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