HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[John Haltiwanger]

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I thought I'd give the mailing list a small change of pace---instead of
asking how to do it, I will show you :)

The short answer is:

\starttext
My Concrete Poem

\startlines
All       the white        space
    will               print           !
\stoplines
\stoptext


However, \startlines..\stoplines is not available when defining a macro.
I've documented the solution to this situation on my blog:
http://drippingdigital.com/blog/2010/09/typesetting-poetry-in-context/

Thanks to Wolfgang Schuster for helping me work it out!

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[John Haltiwanger]

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Apologies, as a very significant aspect of this process was omitted in the
previous email!

Don't forget to do:

\setuplines[space=on]

first!

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:45 AM, John Haltiwanger <
john.haltiwanger@gmail.com> wrote:

> I thought I'd give the mailing list a small change of pace---instead of
> asking how to do it, I will show you :)
>
> The short answer is:
>
> \starttext
> My Concrete Poem
>
> \startlines
> All       the white        space
>     will               print           !
> \stoplines
> \stoptext
>
>
> However, \startlines..\stoplines is not available when defining a macro.
> I've documented the solution to this situation on my blog:
> http://drippingdigital.com/blog/2010/09/typesetting-poetry-in-context/
>
> Thanks to Wolfgang Schuster for helping me work it out!
>

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010, John Haltiwanger wrote:

> Apologies, as a very significant aspect of this process was omitted in the
> previous email!
>
> Don't forget to do:
>
> \setuplines[space=on]
>
> first!
>
> On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:45 AM, John Haltiwanger <
> john.haltiwanger@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I thought I'd give the mailing list a small change of pace---instead of
>> asking how to do it, I will show you :)
>>
>> The short answer is:
>>
>> \starttext
>> My Concrete Poem
>>
>> \startlines
>> All       the white        space
>>     will               print           !
>> \stoplines
>> \stoptext
>>
>>
>> However, \startlines..\stoplines is not available when defining a macro.

What do you mean by that these macros are not available?

Doesn't the following work? (untested, but I will be really surprised if 
it doesn't work)

\def\startpoety
   {\startlines
    % All the remaining setup
   }

\def\stoppoety
  {%whatever setup you want
   \stoplines}


Aditya
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 16.09.2010 um 00:38 schrieb Aditya Mahajan:

>>> However, \startlines..\stoplines is not available when defining a macro.
> 
> What do you mean by that these macros are not available?
> 
> Doesn't the following work? (untested, but I will be really surprised if it doesn't work)
> 
> \def\startpoety
>  {\startlines
>   % All the remaining setup
>  }
> 
> \def\stoppoety
> {%whatever setup you want
>  \stoplines}

He use

\def\poetry
  {\startlines
   line 1
   line 2
   ...
   \stoplines}

and this doesn't work.

Wolfgang

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[John Haltiwanger]

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I don't usually define macros like that (isn't that more of a
\definestartstop kind of deal?).

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Sep 2010, John Haltiwanger wrote:
>
>  Apologies, as a very significant aspect of this process was omitted in the
>> previous email!
>>
>> Don't forget to do:
>>
>> \setuplines[space=on]
>>
>> first!
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:45 AM, John Haltiwanger <
>> john.haltiwanger@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  I thought I'd give the mailing list a small change of pace---instead of
>>> asking how to do it, I will show you :)
>>>
>>> The short answer is:
>>>
>>> \starttext
>>> My Concrete Poem
>>>
>>> \startlines
>>> All       the white        space
>>>    will               print           !
>>> \stoplines
>>> \stoptext
>>>
>>>
>>> However, \startlines..\stoplines is not available when defining a macro.
>>>
>>
> What do you mean by that these macros are not available?
>
> Doesn't the following work? (untested, but I will be really surprised if it
> doesn't work)
>
> \def\startpoety
>  {\startlines
>   % All the remaining setup
>  }
>
> \def\stoppoety
>  {%whatever setup you want
>  \stoplines}
>
>
> Aditya
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[John Haltiwanger]

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What Wolfgange said :)

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Wolfgang Schuster <
schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com> wrote:

>
> Am 16.09.2010 um 00:38 schrieb Aditya Mahajan:
>
> >>> However, \startlines..\stoplines is not available when defining a
> macro.
> >
> > What do you mean by that these macros are not available?
> >
> > Doesn't the following work? (untested, but I will be really surprised if
> it doesn't work)
> >
> > \def\startpoety
> >  {\startlines
> >   % All the remaining setup
> >  }
> >
> > \def\stoppoety
> > {%whatever setup you want
> >  \stoplines}
>
> He use
>
> \def\poetry
>  {\startlines
>   line 1
>   line 2
>   ...
>   \stoplines}
>
> and this doesn't work.
>
> Wolfgang
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

>
> Am 16.09.2010 um 00:38 schrieb Aditya Mahajan:
>
>>>> However, \startlines..\stoplines is not available when defining a macro.
>>
>> What do you mean by that these macros are not available?
>>
>> Doesn't the following work? (untested, but I will be really surprised if it doesn't work)
>>
>> \def\startpoety
>>  {\startlines
>>   % All the remaining setup
>>  }
>>
>> \def\stoppoety
>> {%whatever setup you want
>>  \stoplines}
>
> He use
>
> \def\poetry
>  {\startlines
>   line 1
>   line 2
>   ...
>   \stoplines}
>
> and this doesn't work.

Oh. In that case, I will do

\startbuffer[poerty]
line 1
line
\stopbuffer

\def\poetry
   {\startlines
    \getbuffer[poetry]
    \stoplines}

or even

\def\getpoerty#1[#2]%
   {\startlines
    \getbuffer[#2]
    \stoplines}

That should work (again untested).


Aditya
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010, John Haltiwanger wrote:

> I don't usually define macros like that (isn't that more of a
> \definestartstop kind of deal?).

\definestartstop just provides some syntax sugar around that.

From core-sys.mkiv

\def\dododefinestartstop[#1][#2]%
   { ....
    \setvalue{\e!start#1}%
      {\getvalue{\??be#1\c!before}%
       \bgroup
       \getvalue{\??be#1\c!commands}%
       \dostarttagged\t!construct{#1}%
       \dostartattributes{\??be#1}\c!style\c!color\empty}%
    \setvalue{\e!stop#1}%
      {\dostopattributes
       \dostoptagged
       \egroup
       \getvalue{\??be#1\c!after}}}


So, it is basically defining \start#1 and \stop#1, while I was defining 
them explicitly.

Aditya
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Re: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[John Haltiwanger]

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Yeah, that seems like a good way to go. Now I finally understand what
Wolfgang was saying last night :)

Since whitespace wasn't important to this particular poem, it did not matter
(using \par worked fine). But I will update my blog with this for sure, as
in the case of whitespace-sensitive poetry its a much better solution.

In general though, it is completely unnecessary, as poetry generally has no
need to be defined in macros. But it's the edge cases, where I live :)

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Sep 2010, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
>
>> Am 16.09.2010 um 00:38 schrieb Aditya Mahajan:
>>
>>  However, \startlines..\stoplines is not available when defining a macro.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> What do you mean by that these macros are not available?
>>>
>>> Doesn't the following work? (untested, but I will be really surprised if
>>> it doesn't work)
>>>
>>> \def\startpoety
>>>  {\startlines
>>>  % All the remaining setup
>>>  }
>>>
>>> \def\stoppoety
>>> {%whatever setup you want
>>>  \stoplines}
>>>
>>
>> He use
>>
>> \def\poetry
>>  {\startlines
>>  line 1
>>  line 2
>>  ...
>>  \stoplines}
>>
>> and this doesn't work.
>>
>
> Oh. In that case, I will do
>
> \startbuffer[poerty]
> line 1
> line
> \stopbuffer
>
> \def\poetry
>  {\startlines
>   \getbuffer[poetry]
>   \stoplines}
>
> or even
>
> \def\getpoerty#1[#2]%
>  {\startlines
>   \getbuffer[#2]
>   \stoplines}
>
> That should work (again untested).
>
>
> Aditya
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
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>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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Re: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010, John Haltiwanger wrote:

> In general though, it is completely unnecessary, as poetry generally has no
> need to be defined in macros. But it's the edge cases, where I live :)

On the contrary, typesetting poerty can be very tricky. This is what I did 
once to typeset the divine comedy. Don't ask how I figured out the right 
value of the inbetween key :)

\setupindenting   [medium,yes]
\setuplines[inbetween={\crlf\par\setupindenting[next]\testpage[3]},indenting=next]

\starttext
\startlines
Midway upon the journey of our life
I found myself within a forest dark,
For the straightforward pathway had been lost.

Ah me! how hard a thing it is to say
What was this forest savage, rough, and stern,
Which in the very thought renews the fear.

So bitter is it, death is little more;
But of the good to treat, which there I found,
Speak will I of the other things I saw there.

I cannot well repeat how there I entered,
So full was I of slumber at the moment
In which I had abandoned the true way.

But after I had reached a mountain's foot,
At that point where the valley terminated,
Which had with consternation pierced my heart,

...
\stoplines
\stoptext

Aditya
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Re: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[John Haltiwanger]

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On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Sep 2010, John Haltiwanger wrote:
>
>  In general though, it is completely unnecessary, as poetry generally has
>> no
>> need to be defined in macros. But it's the edge cases, where I live :)
>>
>
> On the contrary, typesetting poerty can be very tricky. This is what I did
> once to typeset the divine comedy. Don't ask how I figured out the right
> value of the inbetween key :)
>
> \setupindenting   [medium,yes]
>
> \setuplines[inbetween={\crlf\par\setupindenting[next]\testpage[3]},indenting=next]
>
> \starttext
> \startlines
> Midway upon the journey of our life
> I found myself within a forest dark,
> For the straightforward pathway had been lost.
>
> Ah me! how hard a thing it is to say
> What was this forest savage, rough, and stern,
> Which in the very thought renews the fear.
>
> So bitter is it, death is little more;
> But of the good to treat, which there I found,
> Speak will I of the other things I saw there.
>
> I cannot well repeat how there I entered,
> So full was I of slumber at the moment
> In which I had abandoned the true way.
>
> But after I had reached a mountain's foot,
> At that point where the valley terminated,
> Which had with consternation pierced my heart,
>
> ...
> \stoplines
> \stoptext
>
>
Yes, but this is an example of what I am saying: in general
\startlines..\stoplines is enough (albeit here with some extra stuff
integrated into \setuplines[inbetween=]). It seems to me that pretty much
only if you are doing something generative would you need to worry about the
specifics of buffers and defining macros for typesetting poetry (as was my
case with writing a dedication page in a pandoc template). No
\startpoem..\stoppoem, or even \poem (though now I am having some nice ideas
for weird poetry.. as I said, I spend a lot of time with edge cases ;)

Interestingly, this conversation has cleared up a few lingering details in
my mind re: ConTeXt. Maybe a poetry typesetting tutorial is a worthy way to
explain some key concepts?

I'd be really curious to see your edition of the Inferno, by the way.

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[Aditya Mahajan]

Hi John,

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010, John Haltiwanger wrote:

> Interestingly, this conversation has cleared up a few lingering details in
> my mind re: ConTeXt. Maybe a poetry typesetting tutorial is a worthy way to
> explain some key concepts?

Definite write such a tutorial. I think ConTeXt is lacking such 
explanations by beginners on how they understood specific ConTeXtisms. 
Most ConTeXt tutorials and manuals are written by users who know ConTeXt 
too well to realize what others may find to be confusing.

Best Wishes,
Aditya

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Re: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[Andrea Valle]

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I totally agree. My experience with ConTeXt is that I can obtain  
incredible results. But I have to dig into docs, typically with no  
much hope,  and at the end I ask the list. The solution is typically  
cut and past from a guru's email :-).

Best

-a-

On Sep 16, 2010, at 1:51 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> On Wed, 15 Sep 2010, John Haltiwanger wrote:
>
>> Interestingly, this conversation has cleared up a few lingering  
>> details in
>> my mind re: ConTeXt. Maybe a poetry typesetting tutorial is a  
>> worthy way to
>> explain some key concepts?
>
> Definite write such a tutorial. I think ConTeXt is lacking such  
> explanations by beginners on how they understood specific  
> ConTeXtisms. Most ConTeXt tutorials and manuals are written by users  
> who know ConTeXt too well to realize what others may find to be  
> confusing.
>
> Best Wishes,
> Aditya
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderaalle/
-->  http://www.youtube.com/user/vanderaalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------
" This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a  
lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous."
(Jeffrey 'The Dude' Lebowski)




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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 16.09.2010 um 01:12 schrieb Aditya Mahajan:

> On Wed, 15 Sep 2010, John Haltiwanger wrote:
> 
>> In general though, it is completely unnecessary, as poetry generally has no
>> need to be defined in macros. But it's the edge cases, where I live :)
> 
> On the contrary, typesetting poerty can be very tricky. This is what I did once to typeset the divine comedy. Don't ask how I figured out the right value of the inbetween key :)
> 
> \setupindenting   [medium,yes]
> \setuplines[inbetween={\crlf\par\setupindenting[next]\testpage[3]},indenting=next]


You don’t need \testpage to keep the lines together, with the “option=packed”
setting there won’t happen a linebreak between the text but the ”preference”
keyword for \blank allows one.

\setuplines
  [option=packed,
   inbetween={\blank[preference,line]\setupindenting[next]},
   indenting=next]

Wolfgang

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Re: \setuplines[space=on] (was: HOWTO: Typesetting Poetry in ConTeXt)

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2010-09-15 <22:26:38>, John Haltiwanger wrote:
> Apologies, as a very significant aspect of this process was omitted in the
> previous email!
> 
> Don't forget to do:
> 
> \setuplines[space=on]

Hi all,

I'm sorry to hijack the thread but I have trouble understanding
how the [space=on] works. In the following example:

···8<····························································

\setuplines[space=on]
\starttext
\startlines
A one, two, a one two three four 

Half a {\em{bee}}, philosophically, 
    must, ipso facto, half not be. 
But half the bee has got to be, 
    vis a vis its entity. {\bf D'you see}? 

But can a {\em bee} be said to be 
    or not to be an entire bee, 
        when half the bee is {\em{}not a bee}, 
            due to some ancient injury? 
\stoplines
\stoptext

···8<····························································

the spaces after the formatting commands “\em” and “\bf” are
respected unless the following token starts a group. Is this
working as expected?

Another question: How can I reproduce MkII's behaviour of
indicating the spaces in MkIV?

Thanks for the help,

Philipp


Btw, @John: thanks for your additions to the \[start|stop]lines
wiki page, I just had need for the command for the first time and
it's a good intro.


> 
> first!
> 
> On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:45 AM, John Haltiwanger <
> john.haltiwanger@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I thought I'd give the mailing list a small change of pace---instead of
> > asking how to do it, I will show you :)
> >
> > The short answer is:
> >
> > \starttext
> > My Concrete Poem
> >
> > \startlines
> > All       the white        space
> >     will               print           !
> > \stoplines
> > \stoptext
> >
> >
> > However, \startlines..\stoplines is not available when defining a macro.
> > I've documented the solution to this situation on my blog:
> > http://drippingdigital.com/blog/2010/09/typesetting-poetry-in-context/
> >
> > Thanks to Wolfgang Schuster for helping me work it out!
> >

> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________


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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

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___________________________________________________________________________________