* math: ± and ∓ are shifted
@ 2013-04-04 21:36 Xenia
2013-04-04 21:44 ` Aditya Mahajan
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Xenia @ 2013-04-04 21:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 323 bytes --]
Hi context list,
I noticed that the ∓ sign is a little higher than the ± sign, so that
the + signs are at the same height. But this looks strange and should be
changed.
$ context --version
mtx-context | ConTeXt Process Management 0.60
mtx-context | current version: 2013.03.24 15:11
Thanks,
Xenia
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[-- Attachment #4: plus_minus.tex --]
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\starttext
\startformula
A = a ± b ∓ c = a \pm b \mp c
\stopformula
\stoptext
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* Re: math: ± and ∓ are shifted
2013-04-04 21:36 math: ± and ∓ are shifted Xenia
@ 2013-04-04 21:44 ` Aditya Mahajan
2013-04-04 22:06 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2013-04-04 21:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 397 bytes --]
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013, Xenia wrote:
> Hi context list,
>
> I noticed that the ∓ sign is a little higher than the ± sign, so that
> the + signs are at the same height. But this looks strange and should be
> changed.
Indeed. These look very odd. I tested this with cambria and the outcome is
similar, so this is not a font bug, but something wrong in ConTeXt's math
handling.
Aditya
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: math: ± and ∓ are shifted
2013-04-04 21:44 ` Aditya Mahajan
@ 2013-04-04 22:06 ` Hans Hagen
2013-04-04 22:13 ` Aditya Mahajan
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2013-04-04 22:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 4/4/2013 11:44 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Apr 2013, Xenia wrote:
>
>> Hi context list,
>>
>> I noticed that the ∓ sign is a little higher than the ± sign, so that
>> the + signs are at the same height. But this looks strange and should be
>> changed.
>
> Indeed. These look very odd. I tested this with cambria and the outcome
> is similar, so this is not a font bug, but something wrong in ConTeXt's
> math handling.
I'm not sure if I understand the issue
- lm has + and - touching with the + in the same position as the regular +
- cambria has a gap between + and - and moves the + up and down
Afaik context isn't doing any magic here as these are precomposed glyphs
that directly map.
$a \ruledhbox{$+$} b \ruledhbox{$-$} c$
$a \ruledhbox{$±$} b \ruledhbox{$∓$} c$
they are 'binary' in math mode, just like + and -
Hans
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| www.pragma-pod.nl
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* Re: math: ± and ∓ are shifted
2013-04-04 22:06 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2013-04-04 22:13 ` Aditya Mahajan
2013-04-04 22:55 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2013-04-04 22:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hans Hagen; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 1248 bytes --]
On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 4/4/2013 11:44 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>> On Thu, 4 Apr 2013, Xenia wrote:
>>
>>> Hi context list,
>>>
>>> I noticed that the ∓ sign is a little higher than the ± sign, so that
>>> the + signs are at the same height. But this looks strange and should be
>>> changed.
>>
>> Indeed. These look very odd. I tested this with cambria and the outcome
>> is similar, so this is not a font bug, but something wrong in ConTeXt's
>> math handling.
>
> I'm not sure if I understand the issue
>
> - lm has + and - touching with the + in the same position as the regular +
>
> - cambria has a gap between + and - and moves the + up and down
>
> Afaik context isn't doing any magic here as these are precomposed glyphs that
> directly map.
>
> $a \ruledhbox{$+$} b \ruledhbox{$-$} c$
>
> $a \ruledhbox{$±$} b \ruledhbox{$∓$} c$
>
> they are 'binary' in math mode, just like + and -
The question is not about the shape of the glyph, but their location.
But after looking at the output of latex for CM and Cambria, I am no
longer sure what the correct output should be. For Cambria, ConTeXt and
LaTeX give similar outputs. For CM/LM they give different outputs.
Aditya
[-- Attachment #2: Type: APPLICATION/pdf, Size: 16904 bytes --]
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* Re: math: ± and ∓ are shifted
2013-04-04 22:13 ` Aditya Mahajan
@ 2013-04-04 22:55 ` Hans Hagen
2013-04-05 0:16 ` Khaled Hosny
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2013-04-04 22:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aditya Mahajan; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Boguslaw Jackowski
On 4/5/2013 12:13 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
>> On 4/4/2013 11:44 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>> On Thu, 4 Apr 2013, Xenia wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi context list,
>>>>
>>>> I noticed that the ∓ sign is a little higher than the ± sign, so that
>>>> the + signs are at the same height. But this looks strange and
>>>> should be
>>>> changed.
>>>
>>> Indeed. These look very odd. I tested this with cambria and the outcome
>>> is similar, so this is not a font bug, but something wrong in ConTeXt's
>>> math handling.
>>
>> I'm not sure if I understand the issue
>>
>> - lm has + and - touching with the + in the same position as the
>> regular +
>>
>> - cambria has a gap between + and - and moves the + up and down
>>
>> Afaik context isn't doing any magic here as these are precomposed
>> glyphs that directly map.
>>
>> $a \ruledhbox{$+$} b \ruledhbox{$-$} c$
>>
>> $a \ruledhbox{$±$} b \ruledhbox{$∓$} c$
>>
>> they are 'binary' in math mode, just like + and -
>
> The question is not about the shape of the glyph, but their location.
> But after looking at the output of latex for CM and Cambria, I am no
> longer sure what the correct output should be. For Cambria, ConTeXt and
> LaTeX give similar outputs. For CM/LM they give different outputs.
it looks like the open type version has a fitting boundingbox while the
type 1 variants have a bit of the + sticking out:
\starttext
$x \ruledhbox{$\pm$} x \ruledhbox{$\mp$} x$
\stoptext
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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| www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* Re: math: ± and ∓ are shifted
2013-04-04 22:55 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2013-04-05 0:16 ` Khaled Hosny
2013-04-05 7:32 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Khaled Hosny @ 2013-04-05 0:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Boguslaw Jackowski
On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 12:55:40AM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 4/5/2013 12:13 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> >On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, Hans Hagen wrote:
> >
> >>On 4/4/2013 11:44 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> >>>On Thu, 4 Apr 2013, Xenia wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hi context list,
> >>>>
> >>>>I noticed that the ∓ sign is a little higher than the ± sign, so that
> >>>>the + signs are at the same height. But this looks strange and
> >>>>should be
> >>>>changed.
> >>>
> >>>Indeed. These look very odd. I tested this with cambria and the outcome
> >>>is similar, so this is not a font bug, but something wrong in ConTeXt's
> >>>math handling.
> >>
> >>I'm not sure if I understand the issue
> >>
> >>- lm has + and - touching with the + in the same position as the
> >>regular +
> >>
> >>- cambria has a gap between + and - and moves the + up and down
> >>
> >>Afaik context isn't doing any magic here as these are precomposed
> >>glyphs that directly map.
> >>
> >>$a \ruledhbox{$+$} b \ruledhbox{$-$} c$
> >>
> >>$a \ruledhbox{$±$} b \ruledhbox{$∓$} c$
> >>
> >>they are 'binary' in math mode, just like + and -
> >
> >The question is not about the shape of the glyph, but their location.
> >But after looking at the output of latex for CM and Cambria, I am no
> >longer sure what the correct output should be. For Cambria, ConTeXt and
> >LaTeX give similar outputs. For CM/LM they give different outputs.
>
> it looks like the open type version has a fitting boundingbox while
> the type 1 variants have a bit of the + sticking out:
CFF fonts do not store bounding box info anywhere, the engine just
calculates it based on glyph outlines. For TFM fonts the metrics can be
adjusted to achieve specific alignment.
Regards,
Khaled
___________________________________________________________________________________
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* Re: math: ± and ∓ are shifted
2013-04-05 0:16 ` Khaled Hosny
@ 2013-04-05 7:32 ` Hans Hagen
2013-04-05 13:46 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2013-04-05 7:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Boguslaw Jackowski
On 4/5/2013 2:16 AM, Khaled Hosny wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 12:55:40AM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 4/5/2013 12:13 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/4/2013 11:44 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 4 Apr 2013, Xenia wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi context list,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I noticed that the ∓ sign is a little higher than the ± sign, so that
>>>>>> the + signs are at the same height. But this looks strange and
>>>>>> should be
>>>>>> changed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed. These look very odd. I tested this with cambria and the outcome
>>>>> is similar, so this is not a font bug, but something wrong in ConTeXt's
>>>>> math handling.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure if I understand the issue
>>>>
>>>> - lm has + and - touching with the + in the same position as the
>>>> regular +
>>>>
>>>> - cambria has a gap between + and - and moves the + up and down
>>>>
>>>> Afaik context isn't doing any magic here as these are precomposed
>>>> glyphs that directly map.
>>>>
>>>> $a \ruledhbox{$+$} b \ruledhbox{$-$} c$
>>>>
>>>> $a \ruledhbox{$±$} b \ruledhbox{$∓$} c$
>>>>
>>>> they are 'binary' in math mode, just like + and -
>>>
>>> The question is not about the shape of the glyph, but their location.
>>> But after looking at the output of latex for CM and Cambria, I am no
>>> longer sure what the correct output should be. For Cambria, ConTeXt and
>>> LaTeX give similar outputs. For CM/LM they give different outputs.
>>
>> it looks like the open type version has a fitting boundingbox while
>> the type 1 variants have a bit of the + sticking out:
>
> CFF fonts do not store bounding box info anywhere, the engine just
> calculates it based on glyph outlines. For TFM fonts the metrics can be
> adjusted to achieve specific alignment.
Sure, but one can 'cheat' with the boundingboxes as they're not cropboxes.
It's no big deal to adapt some metrics in mkiv, but best have the font
do the job.
Hans
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* Re: math: ± and ∓ are shifted
2013-04-05 7:32 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2013-04-05 13:46 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2013-04-05 13:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 4/5/2013 9:32 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 4/5/2013 2:16 AM, Khaled Hosny wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 12:55:40AM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> On 4/5/2013 12:13 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/4/2013 11:44 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 4 Apr 2013, Xenia wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi context list,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I noticed that the ∓ sign is a little higher than the ± sign, so
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> the + signs are at the same height. But this looks strange and
>>>>>>> should be
>>>>>>> changed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed. These look very odd. I tested this with cambria and the
>>>>>> outcome
>>>>>> is similar, so this is not a font bug, but something wrong in
>>>>>> ConTeXt's
>>>>>> math handling.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure if I understand the issue
>>>>>
>>>>> - lm has + and - touching with the + in the same position as the
>>>>> regular +
>>>>>
>>>>> - cambria has a gap between + and - and moves the + up and down
>>>>>
>>>>> Afaik context isn't doing any magic here as these are precomposed
>>>>> glyphs that directly map.
>>>>>
>>>>> $a \ruledhbox{$+$} b \ruledhbox{$-$} c$
>>>>>
>>>>> $a \ruledhbox{$±$} b \ruledhbox{$∓$} c$
>>>>>
>>>>> they are 'binary' in math mode, just like + and -
>>>>
>>>> The question is not about the shape of the glyph, but their location.
>>>> But after looking at the output of latex for CM and Cambria, I am no
>>>> longer sure what the correct output should be. For Cambria, ConTeXt and
>>>> LaTeX give similar outputs. For CM/LM they give different outputs.
>>>
>>> it looks like the open type version has a fitting boundingbox while
>>> the type 1 variants have a bit of the + sticking out:
>>
>> CFF fonts do not store bounding box info anywhere, the engine just
>> calculates it based on glyph outlines. For TFM fonts the metrics can be
>> adjusted to achieve specific alignment.
>
> Sure, but one can 'cheat' with the boundingboxes as they're not cropboxes.
>
> It's no big deal to adapt some metrics in mkiv, but best have the font
> do the job.
Experimental in beta:
\definefontfeature [lm-math] [mathdimensions=signs]
\starttext
\startTEXpage[offset=10pt]
$x \ruledhbox{$\pm$} x \ruledhbox{$\mp$} x$
\stopTEXpage
\stoptext
(explanation in font manual, not yet uploaded)
Hans
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2013-04-05 13:46 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2013-04-04 21:36 math: ± and ∓ are shifted Xenia
2013-04-04 21:44 ` Aditya Mahajan
2013-04-04 22:06 ` Hans Hagen
2013-04-04 22:13 ` Aditya Mahajan
2013-04-04 22:55 ` Hans Hagen
2013-04-05 0:16 ` Khaled Hosny
2013-04-05 7:32 ` Hans Hagen
2013-04-05 13:46 ` Hans Hagen
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