Questions about mathfence

Questions about mathfence

[Aditya Mahajan]

Hi,

Some questions/remarks about math fences

1. When using

     \definemathfence[colorbracket][bar][middle=0x7C,color=red, 
command=yes]
     \starttext

     \startformula
       \colorbracket{\frac {a}{b}\fence a = b}^n
     \stopformula

     \stoptext

The delimiter is of the wrong color (black instead of red), and the clause 
after \fence is red. I am doing something wrong or is it a bug.

2. For some types of expressions, for example, probability, the middle 
delimiter should have the space similar to mathrel, rather than mathord. 
For example, while typing I often use:

\Pr\left( X = \frac {a}{b} \,\middle|\, Y = \frac{c}{d} \right)

Would it be worthwhile to add these extra spaces by default (not sure what 
is the convention in physics/quantum mechanics for bra and ket notation) 
or as an option.

3. Finally, why are the default values of left, middle, and right = 0x2E. 
Isn't 0x7C a better default?

Thanks,
Aditya
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Re: Questions about mathfence

[Hans Hagen]

On 7/29/2013 3:24 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Some questions/remarks about math fences
>
> 1. When using
>
>      \definemathfence[colorbracket][bar][middle=0x7C,color=red,
> command=yes]
>      \starttext
>
>      \startformula
>        \colorbracket{\frac {a}{b}\fence a = b}^n
>      \stopformula
>
>      \stoptext
>
> The delimiter is of the wrong color (black instead of red), and the
> clause after \fence is red. I am doing something wrong or is it a bug.

Just not yet done .. coloring such math thingies is somewhat tricky ... 
added.

> 2. For some types of expressions, for example, probability, the middle
> delimiter should have the space similar to mathrel, rather than mathord.
> For example, while typing I often use:
>
> \Pr\left( X = \frac {a}{b} \,\middle|\, Y = \frac{c}{d} \right)
>
> Would it be worthwhile to add these extra spaces by default (not sure
> what is the convention in physics/quantum mechanics for bra and ket
> notation) or as an option.

I'll add \mskip\thinmuskip around the middle ... no clue what key/value 
to use so we can wait tile someone compliants

> 3. Finally, why are the default values of left, middle, and right =
> 0x2E. Isn't 0x7C a better default?

Well, the period is (for tex) special in the sense that it is a nop so 
if you only want

(

and no

)

then explaining to a user that a period is to be used to nil the right 
symbol is somewhat less troublesome.

One sets up the wanted symbols anyway.

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Questions about mathfence

[Aditya Mahajan]

On 2013-07-29, at 5:34 AM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> On 7/29/2013 3:24 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Some questions/remarks about math fences
>> 
>> 1. When using
>> 
>>     \definemathfence[colorbracket][bar][middle=0x7C,color=red,
>> command=yes]
>>     \starttext
>> 
>>     \startformula
>>       \colorbracket{\frac {a}{b}\fence a = b}^n
>>     \stopformula
>> 
>>     \stoptext
>> 
>> The delimiter is of the wrong color (black instead of red), and the
>> clause after \fence is red. I am doing something wrong or is it a bug.
> 
> Just not yet done .. coloring such math thingies is somewhat tricky ... added.

Thanks.

>> 2. For some types of expressions, for example, probability, the middle
>> delimiter should have the space similar to mathrel, rather than mathord.
>> For example, while typing I often use:
>> 
>> \Pr\left( X = \frac {a}{b} \,\middle|\, Y = \frac{c}{d} \right)
>> 
>> Would it be worthwhile to add these extra spaces by default (not sure
>> what is the convention in physics/quantum mechanics for bra and ket
>> notation) or as an option.
> 
> I'll add \mskip\thinmuskip around the middle ... no clue what key/value to use so we can wait tile someone complaints

Thanks.

>> 3. Finally, why are the default values of left, middle, and right =
>> 0x2E. Isn't 0x7C a better default?
> 
> Well, the period is (for tex) special in the sense that it is a nop so if you only want
> 
> (
> 
> and no
> 
> )
> 
> then explaining to a user that a period is to be used to nil the right symbol is somewhat less troublesome.
> 
> One sets up the wanted symbols anyway.

Of course. I use unmatched delimiters so infrequently that I forgot about it. 

Math fences replace most of the functionality of my old mathsets module. The only missing feature is the text key, but that is a specialized use case, so I'll just update mathsets so that it uses math fences in the background. 

I it really necessary to use Unicode characters to specify left, right, etc? I ink that most math users will be more comfortable using literal symbols, {,[,(,|, etc or tex names \Vert, \vert, etc. 

Aditya
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Questions about mathfence

[Hans Hagen]

On 7/30/2013 3:28 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

> I it really necessary to use Unicode characters to specify left, right, etc? I ink that most math users will be more comfortable using literal symbols, {,[,(,|, etc or tex names \Vert, \vert, etc.

currently yes ... i hate to introduce all kind of extra tests for what 
value is given and by permitting \commands we also become less robust

keep in mind that one can clone

\definemathfence [fancybracket] [bracket] [command=yes,color=red]

so if there is a properly named base set (i tend to clean expressive 
verbose names, at least as base commands instead of all the weird ones 
that showed up over time (along with entities with slightly different 
names) ... clean math as start and we can always add dirty math as 
instances

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Questions about mathfence

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013, Hans Hagen wrote:

> On 7/30/2013 3:28 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>
>> I it really necessary to use Unicode characters to specify left, right, 
>> etc? I ink that most math users will be more comfortable using literal 
>> symbols, {,[,(,|, etc or tex names \Vert, \vert, etc.
>
> currently yes ... i hate to introduce all kind of extra tests for what value 
> is given and by permitting \commands we also become less robust

In the mathsets module, I assumed that a valid math delimiter is used as 
the value for left, right, and middle keys. In that case, no extra test it 
needed.

> keep in mind that one can clone
>
> \definemathfence [fancybracket] [bracket] [command=yes,color=red]
>
> so if there is a properly named base set (i tend to clean expressive verbose 
> names, at least as base commands instead of all the weird ones that showed up 
> over time (along with entities with slightly different names) ... clean math 
> as start and we can always add dirty math as instances

Agreed. Unmatched brackets are not so common, so this the default set is a 
reasonable starting point.

Aditya
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