ntg-context - mailing list for ConTeXt users
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
* ConTeXt Manual Errata
@ 2013-09-18 19:53 Thangalin
  2013-09-21 17:15 ` Marco Patzer
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Thangalin @ 2013-09-18 19:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 477 bytes --]

Hi,

During a recent plane ride, I started to read the ConTeXt manual to get a
better understanding: http://www.ctex.org/documents/context/cont-enp.pdf

If anyone has plans to revise it, I have attached a file with corrections,
specific comments, and general comments. I did not have the ConTeXt manual
source code on hand, so I could not directly modify it.

Take the comments with a grain of salt: I have little ConTeXt experience. I
hope it proves useful.

Kindest regards.

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 664 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: context-errata.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 9801 bytes --]

ConTeXT Manual Errata & Suggestions
===================================

Section 1.3.
------------
The word "something" needs to be defined before it is used.
For example, "\setupsomething" <- What does "something" mean?

The \defineenumeration[Question] creates a \Question command,
but \definehead[Procedure][section] does not create \Procedure command?
(Should the capital P not carry forward?)

The \startnarrower requires an explanation on how it affects the
resulting document. Likewise \startitemnize.

What does the "of" in "\beginofAnswer" mean? Is it required? Where
does it come from? Why is it not simply "\beginAnswer"?

"Figure 1.1 is typeset this way" should include the page number.

"The last example" -- does this refer to the previous example, or the
final example?

"The command \setupfootertexts, which we will discuss in detail in a later
chapter, has three arguments of which the first is optional. The first
argument defaults to [text]. Optional arguments are displayed as slanted
text." Can be: "The command \setupfootertexts, discussed in detail
chapter X, has three arguments. The first argument is optional as denoted
by slanted text, and has a default value of text."

"ConTeXt is able to keep track of the status of information on the
page, ..." is tersely written, "ConTeXt tracks status information per page,
such as the current chapter name."

Provide an immediate example of  arrow marks in a frame.

Section 1.4.
------------
"TeX does a lot" is "TeX performs many".

Document processing is best done by TeXexec -- is this still true? I thought
the "context" program supercedes TeXexec?

Describe the relationship between TeX and ConTeXt. For example, why do the
subsequent sections discuss TeX examples?

Section 1.5.
------------
TeX uses ASCII, but ConTeXt can use UTF-8. Is the information about ASCII a
bit misleading?

"ConTeXt fully supports PDFTeX, which means that you can generate PDF output
directly" can be written, "ConTeXt can produce PDF documents, because it fully
supports PDFTeX."

Section 1.6.1.
--------------
Still relevant with UTF-8?

Section 1.6.2.
--------------
Does \par hold true for ConTeXt? How would you use it? Show an example.

Section 1.6.3.
--------------
Avoid demonstrations that significantly reduce legibility.

Section 1.6.3.
--------------
"TeX is one of the few typesetting systems that does math typesetting right."
Can be: "TeX typesets mathmatical expressions correctly and beautifully."

"It does not hurt to know a bit about the basics of TeX, because that way one
can far more easilly write his or her own alternatives to, for instance,
chapter headers." Can be: "Knowing TeX basics allows developers and authors
to provide alternatives to default commands, such as chapter headers."

Section 1.6.4.
--------------
"Complete fontfamilies are" should be "Complete fontfamilies include".

Section 1.6.5.
--------------
"Characters have dimensions. Spacing between words and lines have dimensions.
These dimensions are related to one of the units of table 1.1. For example
the linespacing in this document is 14.83998pt." Can be: "Characters, spacing
between words (known as kerning), and spacing between lines have dimensions.
The line spacing in this document, for example, is 14.83998pt. Table 1.1
lists how dimensions relate."

Table 1.1 should split the "equivalent" column into two columns: "base" and
"equivalent", or be renamed to "equivalency". The millimeter might not be
necessary information (it is metric).

"Next to the mentioned dimension TeX also uses em and ex. Both are font
dependant." Better as: "In addition to the measures in Table 1.1, TeX uses
the font-dependent units of em and ex." (Note spelling mistake: dependant.)

Section 1.9.
------------
Relatively empty page.

Unknown list of commands -- why are they there? What do they do? Should
they be moved elsewhere?

Section 2.2.
------------
"It is advisable to type the document setups before the \start--command," --
What start command? \starttext, perhaps?

Section 2.3.
------------
The \environment command should be introduced before it is used.

The bullet list should start with the word and then define it. For example,
"A *project* is a group of texts that belong together..."

The term "component" should be italicized like the other defined terms.

"Before a \start--\stop--pair commands can be added." Can be: "Commands
can be defined before a \start command."

The resolution process of searching for files in parent directories
is not clear. Use the 'tree' command (available for DOS/Unix) to show
an actual file and directory hierarchy. Make reference to section 2.4,
or eliminate the somewhat duplicate discussion about searching for
files altogether.

What would "componentonderdeel" translate to in English?

Introduce Table 2.1 (including the meaning of the stars and parenthetical
stars) prior to the table itself. Otherwise people will see the table and
need to read the subsequent page, then flip back to understand the table
again.

"The product teacher.tex (a teacher manual) can be defined as shown on the
opposite site." What does "opposite site" mean?

"In most cases working with only \starttext and \stoptext in combination
with \input or \enviroment is sufficient." Sufficient for what?

"A project structure has advantages when you have to manage a
great number of texts." Any project structure, or *this* project structure
in particular?

"it also enables you to process components independently" rewrite as:
"it also enables components to be processed independently."

"In principal" is a mistake; use: "In principle".

Figures 2.1, 2.2, and 2.3: enlarge the rectangles to avoid hyphenated words.

Provide an example of "localenvironment" -- it is unclear how the command
is meant to be used.

Section 2.4.
------------
Slightly confusing. The manual indicates that only parent directories are
scanned for referenced files to include. The example should discuss the
relationship between files in subdirectories (e.g., sheets.tex) and how
ConTeXt knows to include layout.tex. For example, would you compile 
sheets.tex inside the otherdoc directory? If so, how does sheets reference
layout.tex? What makes the "magic" happen? Is it the "project" command?

Show a small example of the relevant content for layout.tex and sheets.tex
that links the two files together.

Section 2.6.
------------
Is the texexc command deprecated? That is, is the preferred way to compile
a document now the "context" command?

"comma’s" is "commas".

"low level" is "low-level".

"dependant" is "dependent".

"the more flexible we are" should be rewritten, unless this is a subtle
reference to yoga. (That is, describe functionality in terms of the
ConTeXt processor, rather than in terms of people.)

A number of commands are on a page by themselves. They seem quite out
of place.

Section 3.1.
------------
"makes use of the actual" can be: "makes use of".

"This rather complex process makes it obvious that the output routine
actually makes use of more dimensions than" can be "This process of
typsetting an entire page, however, uses more than"

Section 3.2.
------------
"With the command \setuppapersize the dimensions of the paper being used
are defined" can be: "The \setuppapersize command specifies the paper's
dimensions."

Regarding "..,.1.,..", the meaning of ".." has not been defined before
use. Define what is meant by ".." prior to using it.

The word "DIN" is used before its definition. Add a definition for DIN
before use.

The words "envelop" and "envelope" are different in English and could
possibly use a note (or footnote) to indicate the actual size. The sizes
of DL and CD might not be familiar to all readers.

Section 3.3.
------------
Introduce "figure 3.1" with a full sentence. For example: Figure 3.1
shows the position of the header and footer as determined by...

Rename "picture 3.1" to "Figure 3.1" as per the previous suggestion.

Introduce the \setuplayout command prior to including the swath of
ConTeXt code for its definition.

"see chapter ??" is missing its cross-reference.

"and thereby visually separating those areas" becomes "thereby
visually separate those areas".

"In case of a two columned text the \textwidth is somewhat less
than half the makeupwidth" needs an explanation (likely because of a space
between the two columns, but that should be made clear). Also, makeupwidth
should have a backslash.

What are \dimen registers? How do you use them? Do you need to use
\dimen\textwidth? If not, then that should be clarified.

"In principal" is "In principle".

In figures 3.2 to 3.8 the right and left should be swapped? (That is, put the
left page to the left of the right page, and the right page to the right of
the left page...)

"The first three alternatives result in an undesired output." Alternatives
to what? Also, why is the output undesired? Why do we want to make the white
space stretch? (Probably for aesthetics, but that should be explicitly
stated.)

Section 3.7.
------------
A lot of new concepts are introduced at one time (fonts, figures, frames,
logo definition). Perhaps simplify the logo to simply an image, or framed
text, or only one of those items. Then use a couple of examples to build
on these concepts. Alternatively, introduce all the items used in the logo
a little earlier (e.g., setupframed).

General Suggestions
===================

Indent the ConTeXt code fragments

Give ConTeXt code fragments numbers and refer to them by number.

Having two different page numbers is confusing.

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt Manual Errata
  2013-09-18 19:53 ConTeXt Manual Errata Thangalin
@ 2013-09-21 17:15 ` Marco Patzer
  2013-09-26 17:44   ` Marco Patzer
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Marco Patzer @ 2013-09-21 17:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3736 bytes --]

On 2013–09–18 Thangalin wrote:

Hi Dave,

> During a recent plane ride, I started to read the ConTeXt manual
> to get a better understanding:
> http://www.ctex.org/documents/context/cont-enp.pdf

A more recent manual can be found at

  http://pmrb.free.fr/contextref.pdf

> If anyone has plans to revise it,

I assume everybody on this list had at some point plans to revise
the manual(s). Due to lack of time this has never happened.

> I have attached a file with corrections, specific comments, and
> general comments.

Thanks a lot for the corrections and suggestions.

> I did not have the ConTeXt manual source code on hand, so I could
> not directly modify it.

  http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Improving_the_manuals

Do not count on someone else to fix it. Create an account and fix
what you think could be improved, especially the grammar and
spelling mistakes. If you're unsure about something, write a mail to
the manual mailing list¹ for questions about the manual (style,
layout, etc.) or this list for everything else.

Note: The manual has not been updated since a while and it's broken
at the moment. I'll prepare a fix soon, so it will compile with a
recent MkIV.

> Take the comments with a grain of salt:

Take the existing manuals with a grain of salt ;)

> ConTeXT Manual Errata & Suggestions
> ===================================
> 
> Section 1.3.
> ------------
> The word "something" needs to be defined before it is used.
> For example, "\setupsomething" <- What does "something" mean?

A placeholder like foobar or whatever. I think it's clear from the
context, otherwise feel free to define it.

> The \defineenumeration[Question] creates a \Question command,
> but \definehead[Procedure][section] does not create \Procedure command?

It does:

\definehead [Procedure] [section]
\starttext
  \Procedure{something}
\stoptext

However, I'd suggest to instead use:

\startProcedure [title=something]
  …
\stopProcedure

> The \startnarrower requires an explanation on how it affects the
> resulting document. Likewise \startitemnize.

Feel free to add some info from the wiki.

  http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Command/startnarrower
  http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Enumerations

> What does the "of" in "\beginofAnswer" mean? Is it required?

It's not required. It's actually wrong.

> Where does it come from? Why is it not simply "\beginAnswer"?

MkII maybe?

> "Figure 1.1 is typeset this way" should include the page number.

That's more difficult than it seems to be. The manual is available
in different paper sizes and formats. This means the page number
can't be coded as \in{figure}[foo] on \at{page}[foo], since the
figure might end up on the same page. As far as I know ConTeXt does
not have a general mechanism for automatically placing the “on
page…” string if the reference is not on the current page. \atpage
comes close, though.

> Document processing is best done by TeXexec -- is this still true?

Well, your manual is from 2000.

> I thought the "context" program supercedes TeXexec?

yes

> Describe the relationship between TeX and ConTeXt. For example, why do the
> subsequent sections discuss TeX examples?

ConTeXt uses TeX and the following sections introduce some TeX
concepts that hold true for ConTeXt as well.

> Section 1.9.
> ------------
> Relatively empty page.

On purpose. The reader is invited to take a break and grab a coffee. ;)

> Section 2.2.
> ------------
> "It is advisable to type the document setups before the \start--command," --
> What start command? \starttext, perhaps?

\starttext, \startdocument, \startcomponent, etc.

Marco

[-- Attachment #1.2: Digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt Manual Errata
  2013-09-21 17:15 ` Marco Patzer
@ 2013-09-26 17:44   ` Marco Patzer
  2013-09-26 20:07     ` Thangalin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Marco Patzer @ 2013-09-26 17:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1041 bytes --]

On 2013–09–21 Marco Patzer wrote:

> > I did not have the ConTeXt manual source code on hand, so I could
> > not directly modify it.
> 
>   http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Improving_the_manuals
> 
> Do not count on someone else to fix it. Create an account and fix
> what you think could be improved, especially the grammar and
> spelling mistakes. If you're unsure about something, write a mail to
> the manual mailing list¹ for questions about the manual (style,
> layout, etc.) or this list for everything else.
> 
> Note: The manual has not been updated since a while and it's broken
> at the moment. I'll prepare a fix soon, so it will compile with a
> recent MkIV.

I committed a fix today and now it should compile again. I did not
fix any of your suggestions. You are invited to fix the source or
send in a patch. I or someone else can review and merge them.

The dedicated mailing list for the manual seems to be broken at the
moment. Using this list for manual discussions is also fine, I guess.

Marco

[-- Attachment #1.2: Digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt Manual Errata
  2013-09-26 17:44   ` Marco Patzer
@ 2013-09-26 20:07     ` Thangalin
  2013-09-26 20:15       ` Aditya Mahajan
  2013-09-26 20:17       ` Marco Patzer
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Thangalin @ 2013-09-26 20:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1777 bytes --]

Hi,

I registered an account, but have not seen any confirmation.

Kindest regards.


On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Marco Patzer <lists@homerow.info> wrote:

> On 2013–09–21 Marco Patzer wrote:
>
> > > I did not have the ConTeXt manual source code on hand, so I could
> > > not directly modify it.
> >
> >   http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Improving_the_manuals
> >
> > Do not count on someone else to fix it. Create an account and fix
> > what you think could be improved, especially the grammar and
> > spelling mistakes. If you're unsure about something, write a mail to
> > the manual mailing list¹ for questions about the manual (style,
> > layout, etc.) or this list for everything else.
> >
> > Note: The manual has not been updated since a while and it's broken
> > at the moment. I'll prepare a fix soon, so it will compile with a
> > recent MkIV.
>
> I committed a fix today and now it should compile again. I did not
> fix any of your suggestions. You are invited to fix the source or
> send in a patch. I or someone else can review and merge them.
>
> The dedicated mailing list for the manual seems to be broken at the
> moment. Using this list for manual discussions is also fine, I guess.
>
> Marco
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2750 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt Manual Errata
  2013-09-26 20:07     ` Thangalin
@ 2013-09-26 20:15       ` Aditya Mahajan
  2013-09-26 20:31         ` Marco Patzer
  2013-09-26 20:42         ` Peter Münster
  2013-09-26 20:17       ` Marco Patzer
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2013-09-26 20:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 1407 bytes --]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013, Thangalin wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I registered an account, but have not seen any confirmation.
>
> Kindest regards.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Marco Patzer <lists@homerow.info> wrote:
>
>> On 2013–09–21 Marco Patzer wrote:
>>
>>>> I did not have the ConTeXt manual source code on hand, so I could
>>>> not directly modify it.
>>>
>>>   http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Improving_the_manuals
>>>
>>> Do not count on someone else to fix it. Create an account and fix
>>> what you think could be improved, especially the grammar and
>>> spelling mistakes. If you're unsure about something, write a mail to
>>> the manual mailing list¹ for questions about the manual (style,
>>> layout, etc.) or this list for everything else.
>>>
>>> Note: The manual has not been updated since a while and it's broken
>>> at the moment. I'll prepare a fix soon, so it will compile with a
>>> recent MkIV.
>>
>> I committed a fix today and now it should compile again. I did not
>> fix any of your suggestions. You are invited to fix the source or
>> send in a patch. I or someone else can review and merge them.
>>
>> The dedicated mailing list for the manual seems to be broken at the
>> moment. Using this list for manual discussions is also fine, I guess.

Wouldn't it be better to move the manuals to github rather than keeping 
them on an svn server?

Aditya

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt Manual Errata
  2013-09-26 20:07     ` Thangalin
  2013-09-26 20:15       ` Aditya Mahajan
@ 2013-09-26 20:17       ` Marco Patzer
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Marco Patzer @ 2013-09-26 20:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context; +Cc: Taco Hoekwater


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 378 bytes --]

On 2013–09–26 Thangalin wrote:

> I registered an account, but have not seen any confirmation.

Supelec has problems with the mail system at the moment. So Taco
doesn't get a notification if someone requests commit access. I cc'd
him, so he should get notified that way. In case you still don't get
a confirmation, wait until next week, then he'll be back.

Marco

[-- Attachment #1.2: Digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt Manual Errata
  2013-09-26 20:15       ` Aditya Mahajan
@ 2013-09-26 20:31         ` Marco Patzer
  2013-09-26 20:42         ` Peter Münster
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Marco Patzer @ 2013-09-26 20:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 159 bytes --]

On 2013–09–26 Aditya Mahajan wrote:

> Wouldn't it be better to move the manuals to github rather than
> keeping them on an svn server?

+1

Marco

[-- Attachment #1.2: Digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt Manual Errata
  2013-09-26 20:15       ` Aditya Mahajan
  2013-09-26 20:31         ` Marco Patzer
@ 2013-09-26 20:42         ` Peter Münster
  2013-09-26 21:22           ` Mica Semrick
  2013-09-27  9:10           ` Marco Patzer
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster @ 2013-09-26 20:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

On Thu, Sep 26 2013, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

> Wouldn't it be better to move the manuals to github rather than keeping them
> on an svn server?

Why?

-- 
           Peter
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt Manual Errata
  2013-09-26 20:42         ` Peter Münster
@ 2013-09-26 21:22           ` Mica Semrick
  2013-09-26 21:50             ` git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata) Peter Münster
  2013-09-26 23:22             ` ConTeXt Manual Errata Thangalin
  2013-09-27  9:10           ` Marco Patzer
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Mica Semrick @ 2013-09-26 21:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 919 bytes --]

@Peter github makes collaboration quite painless. Users can manage their
own accounts.

+1 for github from me too!


On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Peter Münster <pmlists@free.fr> wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 26 2013, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>
> > Wouldn't it be better to move the manuals to github rather than keeping
> them
> > on an svn server?
>
> Why?
>
> --
>            Peter
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1744 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* git or svn (was:  ConTeXt Manual Errata)
  2013-09-26 21:22           ` Mica Semrick
@ 2013-09-26 21:50             ` Peter Münster
  2013-09-26 21:56               ` Mica Semrick
  2013-09-27  1:10               ` git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata) Aditya Mahajan
  2013-09-26 23:22             ` ConTeXt Manual Errata Thangalin
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster @ 2013-09-26 21:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

On Thu, Sep 26 2013, Mica Semrick wrote:

> @Peter github makes collaboration quite painless. Users can manage their own
> accounts. 

I like git because of its features. And when I don't need those
features, I prefer svn because of its simplicity. Where is the pain?
What would be the benefit when moving to github?

-1 (not worth the trouble for me)

(On the other hand, if you sent me some bitcoins, I would be glad to
copy contextman to github. ;)

-- 
           Peter
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata)
  2013-09-26 21:50             ` git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata) Peter Münster
@ 2013-09-26 21:56               ` Mica Semrick
  2013-09-26 23:24                 ` Thangalin
  2013-09-27  6:46                 ` git or svn Peter Münster
  2013-09-27  1:10               ` git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata) Aditya Mahajan
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Mica Semrick @ 2013-09-26 21:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1561 bytes --]

> Where is the pain?
> What would be the benefit when moving to github?

On the thread someone wanted to add something to the manual, but didn't
have SVN access. The admin wasn't getting email, and thus couldn't grant
the new account. The material was not added the to manual.

If the manual was on github, it could have been forked, branched, content
added, pull request made. End of story. So we do want the features of
github.


On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Peter Münster <pmlists@free.fr> wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 26 2013, Mica Semrick wrote:
>
> > @Peter github makes collaboration quite painless. Users can manage their
> own
> > accounts.
>
> I like git because of its features. And when I don't need those
> features, I prefer svn because of its simplicity. Where is the pain?
> What would be the benefit when moving to github?
>
> -1 (not worth the trouble for me)
>
> (On the other hand, if you sent me some bitcoins, I would be glad to
> copy contextman to github. ;)
>
> --
>            Peter
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2822 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt Manual Errata
  2013-09-26 21:22           ` Mica Semrick
  2013-09-26 21:50             ` git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata) Peter Münster
@ 2013-09-26 23:22             ` Thangalin
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Thangalin @ 2013-09-26 23:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 679 bytes --]

+π from me.

My preference would be BitBucket (slightly simpler than github and allows
for free private repositories), but, either way, the result is the same:
fewer steps to updating the manual. Moving away from svn to git is also a
step in the right direction, IMO.

One aspect of wikis that I thoroughly enjoy is the ability to fix something
(contribute) immediately. Moving to a web-based repository for the manual
removes barriers (such as waiting upon moderated approvals whilst the
moderator vacations) to letting people contribute to projects. Throw in a
nightly build (with blaming) to ensure that the manual compile is never
broken (for long).

Regards.

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 939 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata)
  2013-09-26 21:56               ` Mica Semrick
@ 2013-09-26 23:24                 ` Thangalin
  2013-09-27  6:46                 ` git or svn Peter Münster
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Thangalin @ 2013-09-26 23:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2267 bytes --]

That is an excellent summation, Mica.


On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Mica Semrick <paperdigits@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Where is the pain?
> > What would be the benefit when moving to github?
>
> On the thread someone wanted to add something to the manual, but didn't
> have SVN access. The admin wasn't getting email, and thus couldn't grant
> the new account. The material was not added the to manual.
>
> If the manual was on github, it could have been forked, branched, content
> added, pull request made. End of story. So we do want the features of
> github.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Peter Münster <pmlists@free.fr> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 26 2013, Mica Semrick wrote:
>>
>> > @Peter github makes collaboration quite painless. Users can manage
>> their own
>> > accounts.
>>
>> I like git because of its features. And when I don't need those
>> features, I prefer svn because of its simplicity. Where is the pain?
>> What would be the benefit when moving to github?
>>
>> -1 (not worth the trouble for me)
>>
>> (On the other hand, if you sent me some bitcoins, I would be glad to
>> copy contextman to github. ;)
>>
>> --
>>            Peter
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>> the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 4204 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata)
  2013-09-26 21:50             ` git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata) Peter Münster
  2013-09-26 21:56               ` Mica Semrick
@ 2013-09-27  1:10               ` Aditya Mahajan
  2013-09-27  7:01                 ` git or svn Peter Münster
  2013-09-27 13:10                 ` Lars Huttar
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2013-09-27  1:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 1122 bytes --]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013, Peter Münster wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 26 2013, Mica Semrick wrote:
>
>> @Peter github makes collaboration quite painless. Users can manage their own
>> accounts.
>
> I like git because of its features. And when I don't need those
> features, I prefer svn because of its simplicity. Where is the pain?

The last time I tried, merging multiple version in svn is a huge pain. One 
of the advantages of DVCS is that branching and merging are easy.

> What would be the benefit when moving to github?

Github seems to be the most popular DVCS hosting site at the moment. For 
manuals, I think that Github is particularly useful because you can click 
on edit and make the change. Github automatically creates a fork, a new 
branch, and pull request for you. So the technical barrier to 
participation is low.

> -1 (not worth the trouble for me)
>
> (On the other hand, if you sent me some bitcoins, I would be glad to
> copy contextman to github. ;)

https://github.com/nirvdrum/svn2git

Using this is usually as simple as

svn2git http://svn.example.com/path/to/repo

Aditya

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: git or svn
  2013-09-26 21:56               ` Mica Semrick
  2013-09-26 23:24                 ` Thangalin
@ 2013-09-27  6:46                 ` Peter Münster
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster @ 2013-09-27  6:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

On Thu, Sep 26 2013, Mica Semrick wrote:

> it could have been forked, branched, content added, pull request made.

with svn: wait for access -> commit   ;)

-- 
           Peter
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: git or svn
  2013-09-27  1:10               ` git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata) Aditya Mahajan
@ 2013-09-27  7:01                 ` Peter Münster
  2013-09-27  7:38                   ` Taco Hoekwater
  2013-09-27 13:10                 ` Lars Huttar
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster @ 2013-09-27  7:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

On Fri, Sep 27 2013, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

> The last time I tried, merging multiple version in svn is a huge pain. One of
> the advantages of DVCS is that branching and merging are easy.

I understand. Please go ahead if you need git. My preference for svn is
just my personal opinion, coming from my personal experience: people
wanted to change a well running system, using the latest and greatest
tools. In the end, after quite some efforts, there was no benefit, it
was just a bit more complicated.

I'm just lucky doing my 3 svn-commits per year, and with git I would
do git-commits.

-- 
           Peter
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: git or svn
  2013-09-27  7:01                 ` git or svn Peter Münster
@ 2013-09-27  7:38                   ` Taco Hoekwater
  2013-09-27 13:01                     ` Lars Huttar
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2013-09-27  7:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


On Sep 27, 2013, at 9:01 AM, Peter Münster <pmlists@free.fr> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 27 2013, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> 
>> The last time I tried, merging multiple version in svn is a huge pain. One of
>> the advantages of DVCS is that branching and merging are easy.
> 
> I understand. Please go ahead if you need git. My preference for svn is
> just my personal opinion, coming from my personal experience: people
> wanted to change a well running system, using the latest and greatest
> tools. In the end, after quite some efforts, there was no benefit, it
> was just a bit more complicated.

+1 from me: I have exactly the same experience personally.

> I'm just lucky doing my 3 svn-commits per year, and with git I would
> do git-commits.


+1 again.

The manual is on supelec because that is where the metapost and luatex
repositories are, and it is a subversion repo because when the project
was first added, the software system on supelec did not understand git.

The current version of Forge does support git repos, but I never switched 
since (as I wrote above) I have a small personal preference for 
subversion. So it would be possible to have a git on supelec; for that 
reason there is no need to switch to github. There may be a small
advantage to staying with supelec  as then the main project URL does not 
have to change.

OTOH, supelec's email stuff breaks easily and somewhat often.

Best wishes,
Taco

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt Manual Errata
  2013-09-26 20:42         ` Peter Münster
  2013-09-26 21:22           ` Mica Semrick
@ 2013-09-27  9:10           ` Marco Patzer
  2013-09-27  9:27             ` Peter Münster
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Marco Patzer @ 2013-09-27  9:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 979 bytes --]

On 2013–09–26 Peter Münster wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 26 2013, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> 
> > Wouldn't it be better to move the manuals to github rather than keeping them
> > on an svn server?
> 
> Why?

In my opinion, for the “3 commits per year” it doesn't really matter
which version control system is being used. No particular git
feature is required for such a simple and low-traffic code base as
the manual.

For me it's more a choice of infrastructure. It is easier to
collaborate on github. It's popular, people know how to use it and
it doesn't require an invitation. Github's GUI is more friendly to
beginners not familiar with revision control systems. The simpler it
is to contribute the more likely it is for people to do so.

But, I agree, there are valid reasons to stay with supelec, the main
one being that it's already there. Still, I would support a change.
More importantly I would like to see people actually contributing.

Marco

[-- Attachment #1.2: Digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: ConTeXt Manual Errata
  2013-09-27  9:10           ` Marco Patzer
@ 2013-09-27  9:27             ` Peter Münster
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster @ 2013-09-27  9:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

On Fri, Sep 27 2013, Marco Patzer wrote:

> More importantly I would like to see people actually contributing.

+1

And it would be no problem for me (and for other contextman members) to
apply contributed patches. Whoever wants to contribute without worrying
about the VCS can send a patch here.

-- 
           Peter
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: git or svn
  2013-09-27  7:38                   ` Taco Hoekwater
@ 2013-09-27 13:01                     ` Lars Huttar
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Lars Huttar @ 2013-09-27 13:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Taco Hoekwater

On 9/27/2013 3:38 AM, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> On Sep 27, 2013, at 9:01 AM, Peter Münster <pmlists@free.fr> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 27 2013, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>
>>> The last time I tried, merging multiple version in svn is a huge pain. One of
>>> the advantages of DVCS is that branching and merging are easy.
>> I understand. Please go ahead if you need git. My preference for svn is
>> just my personal opinion, coming from my personal experience: people
>> wanted to change a well running system, using the latest and greatest
>> tools. In the end, after quite some efforts, there was no benefit, it
>> was just a bit more complicated.
> +1 from me: I have exactly the same experience personally.
>

I'm with Taco and Peter on this one. SVN is part of my everyday
workflow; Git requires a lot more reading and fumbling. However I know
the need to be fluent with Git is becoming more and more prevalent, and
for many people it's already the easiest thing. So I wouldn't argue
against moving to Git. I'm just reporting my preference.

BTW I committed several changes to the manual yesterday, and plan to do
a fair bit more in the coming week or two. I would appreciate if someone
knowledgeable could check and make sure that I haven't said things that
are misleading or incorrect.

Lars

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: git or svn
  2013-09-27  1:10               ` git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata) Aditya Mahajan
  2013-09-27  7:01                 ` git or svn Peter Münster
@ 2013-09-27 13:10                 ` Lars Huttar
  2013-09-27 13:26                   ` Marcin Borkowski
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Lars Huttar @ 2013-09-27 13:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

On 9/26/2013 9:10 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> Github seems to be the most popular DVCS hosting site at the moment.
> For manuals, I think that Github is particularly useful because you
> can click on edit and make the change. Github automatically creates a
> fork, a new branch, and pull request for you. So the technical barrier
> to participation is low.

I would question the perception that the technical barrier to
participation on Github is low. Not long ago I tried to submit a patch
to a project on Github, improving documentation and adding features. It
took several hours (distributed over a couple of weeks) to learn how to
do all that was required. It was *not* automatic. It strongly
discouraged me from making more contributions to that project.

Maybe some major things have changed on Github since then. In any case,
I have no doubt that once you know the system, and have the
infrastructure set up, it's easy to participate. And I'm not saying that
SVN makes it easy for non-SVN users to participate. All I'm saying is
that for non-Git users, the technical barrier to participation was
substantial, last time I tried it.

Again, I'm not arguing against a move to Git. I would just like to
contribute my recent experience toward a well-informed decision process.

Lars

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: git or svn
  2013-09-27 13:10                 ` Lars Huttar
@ 2013-09-27 13:26                   ` Marcin Borkowski
  2013-09-27 14:02                     ` Peter Münster
  2013-09-27 14:27                     ` Hans Hagen
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2013-09-27 13:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context

Dnia 2013-09-27, o godz. 09:10:04
Lars Huttar <lars_huttar@sil.org> napisał(a):

> On 9/26/2013 9:10 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> > Github seems to be the most popular DVCS hosting site at the moment.
> > For manuals, I think that Github is particularly useful because you
> > can click on edit and make the change. Github automatically creates
> > a fork, a new branch, and pull request for you. So the technical
> > barrier to participation is low.
> 
> I would question the perception that the technical barrier to
> participation on Github is low. Not long ago I tried to submit a patch
> to a project on Github, improving documentation and adding features.
> It took several hours (distributed over a couple of weeks) to learn
> how to do all that was required. It was *not* automatic. It strongly
> discouraged me from making more contributions to that project.
> 
> Maybe some major things have changed on Github since then. In any
> case, I have no doubt that once you know the system, and have the
> infrastructure set up, it's easy to participate. And I'm not saying
> that SVN makes it easy for non-SVN users to participate. All I'm
> saying is that for non-Git users, the technical barrier to
> participation was substantial, last time I tried it.
> 
> Again, I'm not arguing against a move to Git. I would just like to
> contribute my recent experience toward a well-informed decision
> process.

Just my 3 cents.

I am not a heavy Git user (though I am quite accustomed to Mercurial
instead), and I agree that the entry point for Git is not very low.
However, it seems that nowadays, for a *new* user, learning to use SVN
is pointless (unless he joins a project where SVN is used etc.):
distributed VCSs seem to be just much better (and I heard that SVN has
its own problems, too).  So I would perceive this question as touching
a demography issue: younger people are more likely to know/use Git (and
not know SVN), older folk might know/use SVN.

Also, if this matters, Git has an excellent Emacs front-end, Magit.  I
don't know whether SVN has something similar.

> Lars

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Adam Mickiewicz University
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: git or svn
  2013-09-27 13:26                   ` Marcin Borkowski
@ 2013-09-27 14:02                     ` Peter Münster
  2013-09-27 14:27                     ` Hans Hagen
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster @ 2013-09-27 14:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

On Fri, Sep 27 2013, Marcin Borkowski wrote:

> However, it seems that nowadays, for a *new* user, learning to use SVN
> is pointless

For our use case (enhancing the documentation) that's a nonissue:
git or svn, there is nothing to learn, just pull, edit, commit.
3 lines on the project web page will show you what to do.

Of course, if you choose a complicated workflow (maintaining several
branches, test and validation cycles, commit signatures, and so on),
then git would be a good choice, and yes, then you'll have to learn it.
But please don't spend more time with the DVCS than with the improvement
of the manual... ;)

-- 
           Peter
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: git or svn
  2013-09-27 13:26                   ` Marcin Borkowski
  2013-09-27 14:02                     ` Peter Münster
@ 2013-09-27 14:27                     ` Hans Hagen
  2013-09-27 17:08                       ` Mica Semrick
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2013-09-27 14:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context

On 9/27/2013 3:26 PM, Marcin Borkowski wrote:

> Also, if this matters, Git has an excellent Emacs front-end, Magit.  I
> don't know whether SVN has something similar.

github has a nice windows backend but (as with more open source 
developments) the real nice stuff is closed ... i tried several times 
but never could install easily some git server infrastructure similar to 
github on a (linux) server so at our company we stay with svn (but i 
keep copies of the context-on-github on my machine, but only for viewing)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: git or svn
  2013-09-27 14:27                     ` Hans Hagen
@ 2013-09-27 17:08                       ` Mica Semrick
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Mica Semrick @ 2013-09-27 17:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1736 bytes --]

Maybe we can have the best of both: https://gist.github.com/ticean/1556967 ?


On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:27 AM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> On 9/27/2013 3:26 PM, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>
>  Also, if this matters, Git has an excellent Emacs front-end, Magit.  I
>> don't know whether SVN has something similar.
>>
>
> github has a nice windows backend but (as with more open source
> developments) the real nice stuff is closed ... i tried several times but
> never could install easily some git server infrastructure similar to github
> on a (linux) server so at our company we stay with svn (but i keep copies
> of the context-on-github on my machine, but only for viewing)
>
> Hans
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**-----
>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
>                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**-----
>
> ______________________________**______________________________**
> _______________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/**
> listinfo/ntg-context <http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context>
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/**projects/contextrev/<http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/>
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ______________________________**______________________________**
> _______________________
>

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2761 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2013-09-27 17:08 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 25+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2013-09-18 19:53 ConTeXt Manual Errata Thangalin
2013-09-21 17:15 ` Marco Patzer
2013-09-26 17:44   ` Marco Patzer
2013-09-26 20:07     ` Thangalin
2013-09-26 20:15       ` Aditya Mahajan
2013-09-26 20:31         ` Marco Patzer
2013-09-26 20:42         ` Peter Münster
2013-09-26 21:22           ` Mica Semrick
2013-09-26 21:50             ` git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata) Peter Münster
2013-09-26 21:56               ` Mica Semrick
2013-09-26 23:24                 ` Thangalin
2013-09-27  6:46                 ` git or svn Peter Münster
2013-09-27  1:10               ` git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata) Aditya Mahajan
2013-09-27  7:01                 ` git or svn Peter Münster
2013-09-27  7:38                   ` Taco Hoekwater
2013-09-27 13:01                     ` Lars Huttar
2013-09-27 13:10                 ` Lars Huttar
2013-09-27 13:26                   ` Marcin Borkowski
2013-09-27 14:02                     ` Peter Münster
2013-09-27 14:27                     ` Hans Hagen
2013-09-27 17:08                       ` Mica Semrick
2013-09-26 23:22             ` ConTeXt Manual Errata Thangalin
2013-09-27  9:10           ` Marco Patzer
2013-09-27  9:27             ` Peter Münster
2013-09-26 20:17       ` Marco Patzer

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).