* Producing dvi
@ 2009-04-19 11:28 Michail Vidiassov
2009-04-19 11:35 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Michail Vidiassov @ 2009-04-19 11:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Dear All,
is it possible to produce dvi in mkiv?
What is the command line?
Are there limitations (like no opentype, no unicode math)?
DVI has to be fit for dvips use.
The reason for my question - Asymptote vector drawing tool
sets labels by processing PS output of LaTeX and relies on the PS
being made by dvips.
Sincerely, Michail
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread* Re: Producing dvi 2009-04-19 11:28 Producing dvi Michail Vidiassov @ 2009-04-19 11:35 ` Hans Hagen 2009-04-19 12:14 ` Michail Vidiassov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2009-04-19 11:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Michail Vidiassov wrote: > Dear All, > > is it possible to produce dvi in mkiv? > What is the command line? > Are there limitations (like no opentype, no unicode math)? > > DVI has to be fit for dvips use. > > The reason for my question - Asymptote vector drawing tool > sets labels by processing PS output of LaTeX and relies on the PS > being made by dvips. you can produce dvi when you force the pdfoutput mode but you will probably get errors reported best convert that ps to pdf than and include the pdf Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Producing dvi 2009-04-19 11:35 ` Hans Hagen @ 2009-04-19 12:14 ` Michail Vidiassov 2009-04-19 13:34 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Michail Vidiassov @ 2009-04-19 12:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Dear Hans, On Sun, 19 Apr 2009, Hans Hagen wrote: >> is it possible to produce dvi in mkiv? >> DVI has to be fit for dvips use. >> >> The reason for my question - Asymptote vector drawing tool >> sets labels by processing PS output of LaTeX and relies on the PS >> being made by dvips. > > you can produce dvi when you force the pdfoutput mode but you will probably > get errors reported > > best convert that ps to pdf than and include the pdf No, no, no! I have been misunderstood! The problem is not how to include Asymptote output into ConTeXt. If it is 2D - then it is just normal PDF, that can be included as usual. If it is 3D - I have the code, modeled after movie inclusion (thanks Hans, you fixed it when I have mentioned that it was broken in mkiv). What I am talking about now is how to typeset labels within Asymptote by ConTeXt. Asymptote takes label text, wraps it into a minimal document and feeds to a TeX engine, gets DVI, processes it with dvips, redefines some PS commands (here it relies on the dvips specifics) so that the information on the resulting path is being printed and runs the PS file through ghostscript. Thus Asymptote gets the information of the curves the label consists of. So if it is possible to feed ConTeXt output to dvips, than it'll be easy to adopt Asymptote to use ConTeXt. If mkiv does not produce dvi (now? never will? not intended to?), what about mkii? Sincerely, Michail PS. The black side of mirgation from another system - you are both a novice and need to setup/modify your new tool in unevident ways to translate your existing work into new terms... You barely drive but need to fit that trusty Gatling on the car's roof :( ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Producing dvi 2009-04-19 12:14 ` Michail Vidiassov @ 2009-04-19 13:34 ` Hans Hagen 2009-04-19 13:39 ` Michail Vidiassov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2009-04-19 13:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Michail Vidiassov wrote: > If mkiv does not produce dvi (now? never will? not intended to?), > what about mkii? > > Sincerely, Michail sure, mkii can produce dvi for several drivers \setupoutput[dvips] ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Producing dvi 2009-04-19 13:34 ` Hans Hagen @ 2009-04-19 13:39 ` Michail Vidiassov 2009-04-19 13:47 ` Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد 2009-04-19 14:09 ` Mojca Miklavec 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Michail Vidiassov @ 2009-04-19 13:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Dear Hans, On Sun, 19 Apr 2009, Hans Hagen wrote: >> If mkiv does not produce dvi (now? never will? not intended to?), >> what about mkii? > > sure, mkii can produce dvi for several drivers And what about the first part of the question? The (negative?) answer is implied in your other post, but what is the official position (if any)? Sincerely, Michail ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Producing dvi 2009-04-19 13:39 ` Michail Vidiassov @ 2009-04-19 13:47 ` Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد 2009-04-19 14:09 ` Mojca Miklavec 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد @ 2009-04-19 13:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 07:39:58 -0600, Michail Vidiassov <master@iaas.msu.ru> wrote: >>> If mkiv does not produce dvi (now? never will? not intended to?), >>> what about mkii? >> >> sure, mkii can produce dvi for several drivers > > And what about the first part of the question? mkiv does not now, probably never will, and is not intended, to support dvi ;-) dvi is considered obsolete. Maybe newer technologies like xps -- which claims better integration with opentype etc -- will be supported sometime down the road... no time soon. Best wishes Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Producing dvi 2009-04-19 13:39 ` Michail Vidiassov 2009-04-19 13:47 ` Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد @ 2009-04-19 14:09 ` Mojca Miklavec 2009-04-19 15:03 ` Michail Vidiassov 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Mojca Miklavec @ 2009-04-19 14:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 15:39, Michail Vidiassov wrote: > Dear Hans, > > On Sun, 19 Apr 2009, Hans Hagen wrote: > >>> If mkiv does not produce dvi (now? never will? not intended to?), >>> what about mkii? >> >> sure, mkii can produce dvi for several drivers > > And what about the first part of the question? > The (negative?) answer is implied in your other post, > but what is the official position (if any)? The problem is not writing DVI file per se, but conversion from DVI to some reasonable format (both ps and pdf are problematic). As soon as you want to use OpenType fonts and their features, dvips will not be able to convert the DVI to valid PS any more unless someone writes extension for it (which is very unlikely to happen). If you insist in DVI and OpenType fonts, you could just as well take a look at ConTeXt+XeTeX that is able to generate xdv files (extended dvi), but I can guarantee you problems. dvips is not able to handle XDV files. If Asymptote is not able to handle PDF files, maybe Asymptote itself would need extensions. (When I last tried to use Asymptote I gave up since I was not able to figure out how to install it and started using other tools.) But as far as I know, if the only critical step is conversion of font outlines into curves, gs is able to read PDF files as well. I see no reason why one would require PS unless one uses very basic techniques for document manipulation (it's a bit easier to parse and work with PS than it is to work with PDF, but when it's done inside a bigger project it probably pays off to support both; I guess that the overhead should not be that big). If you would like asymptote to handle ConTeXt labels you should start with mkii. But honestly: I don't really see when LaTeX for typesetting labels would not suffice. ConTeXt is extremely good at page formatting, but when it comes to typeset "$A$" for point labels, I would not mind using LaTeX (If it's only about OpenType you cannot do anything unless Asymptote gets extended, but even then you could use XeTeX.) There definitely are few exceptions and there's definitely an extremely good feeling if you're aware that the tool uses ConTeXt in the background ... but that's about all about it. But the answer to your question about mkiv and dvi remains: no, it won't be supported, unless someone provides sufficient funding or writes amazing/extremely useful tools that could cope with XDV format and do something useful with it. Feel free to search dev-luatex archives for lenghty discussions about the issue. Mojca ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Producing dvi 2009-04-19 14:09 ` Mojca Miklavec @ 2009-04-19 15:03 ` Michail Vidiassov 2009-04-19 19:31 ` Mojca Miklavec 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Michail Vidiassov @ 2009-04-19 15:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Dear Mojca, On Sun, 19 Apr 2009, Mojca Miklavec wrote: > If Asymptote is not able to handle PDF files, maybe Asymptote itself > would need extensions. (When I last tried to use Asymptote I gave up > since I was not able to figure out how to install it and started using > other tools.) This (installation problems) is part of the question why typesetting in Asymptote with ConTeXt is desirable - no need to maintain separate LaTeX installation, avoiding mixup with older version of ConTeXt that comes with it, etc. And at this moment Asymptote is (almost) the only tool that makes 3D PDF directly (without $$$$ Windows-only converter like Acrobat), is Metapost-like and not some CAD monster or VRML fossil. > If you would like asymptote to handle ConTeXt labels you should start > with mkii. But honestly: I don't really see when LaTeX for typesetting > labels would not suffice. ConTeXt is extremely good at page > formatting, but when it comes to typeset "$A$" for point labels, I > would not mind using LaTeX (If it's only about OpenType you cannot do > anything unless Asymptote gets extended, but even then you could use > XeTeX.) Apart from maintenance problems with the zoo of tools, Asymptote aspires for high quality of labels (and has invested considerable effort to preserve it in 3D mode), that implies that labels are to be in the same font as the main text and/or follow some predetermined style. That requirement is not easy to follow consistently if different tools are used to typeset body of the article and labels on pics. http://tug.org/pracjourn/2005-1/levine/levine.pdf > But as far as I know, if the only critical step is conversion of font > outlines into curves, gs is able to read PDF files as well. I see no > reason why one would require PS unless one uses very basic techniques > for document manipulation (it's a bit easier to parse and work with PS > than it is to work with PDF, but when it's done inside a bigger > project it probably pays off to support both; I guess that the > overhead should not be that big). As a side note - PS is a programming language very well suited for just this kind of problems. ;) Sincerely, Michail ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Producing dvi 2009-04-19 15:03 ` Michail Vidiassov @ 2009-04-19 19:31 ` Mojca Miklavec 2009-04-19 21:05 ` Michail Vidiassov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Mojca Miklavec @ 2009-04-19 19:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 17:03, Michail Vidiassov wrote: > Dear Mojca, > > On Sun, 19 Apr 2009, Mojca Miklavec wrote: > >> If Asymptote is not able to handle PDF files, maybe Asymptote itself >> would need extensions. (When I last tried to use Asymptote I gave up >> since I was not able to figure out how to install it and started using >> other tools.) > > This (installation problems) is part of the question why typesetting in > Asymptote with ConTeXt is desirable - no need to maintain separate LaTeX > installation, avoiding mixup with older version of ConTeXt that comes with > it, etc. I was mostly talking about dependency problems on libraries when compiling asymptote (I have no idea what libraries it depends on, but there are definitely many of them). If I want to install asymptote with packaging system (like macports), then I *have to* install some ancient version of TeX Live (which is great since I now need to have three copies of TeX Live on hard-drive and without ever using it). If I want to compile asymptote myself, I would drive me crazy before I would figure out all the library dependencies. It would be really nice if someone would be ready to spend time to include asymptote in TeX Live. That would make installation thousand times easier. > And at this moment Asymptote is (almost) the only tool that makes 3D PDF > directly (without $$$$ Windows-only converter like Acrobat), is > Metapost-like and not some CAD monster or VRML fossil. No doubt about it. I'm trying to survive by using some random mixture of tools like gnuplot, povray, matlab, mathematica, raw EPS, ... Mathematica has become really impressive recently and is able to export 3D figures, but it's not free. I wanted to use asymptote, but I had to finish something until the deadline and didn't have the necessary time left to install and learn it. >> If you would like asymptote to handle ConTeXt labels you should start >> with mkii. But honestly: I don't really see when LaTeX for typesetting >> labels would not suffice. ConTeXt is extremely good at page >> formatting, but when it comes to typeset "$A$" for point labels, I >> would not mind using LaTeX (If it's only about OpenType you cannot do >> anything unless Asymptote gets extended, but even then you could use >> XeTeX.) > > Apart from maintenance problems with the zoo of tools, Asymptote aspires > for high quality of labels (and has invested considerable effort to preserve > it in 3D mode), that implies that labels are to be in the > same font as the main text and/or follow some predetermined style. True, but usually setting the right font is doable. > As a side note - PS is a programming language very well suited for just this > kind of problems. ;) I agree, but PS is easy to write, while parsing someone else's code automatically is challenging, not to say impossible. -------------------- In any case, I would recommend you to contact asymptote developers. There's a bunch of LaTeX commands that are being harcoded in asymptote source, and those would have to be rewritten and made configurable. Next, you'll probably need some switch to trigger executing ConTeXt instead of LaTeX. There is some split betwen plain TeX and LaTeX, but you'll need a bit more work to include ConTeXt support as well. I don't know how exactly Asymptote works. You said that it uses dvi, but I have seen the word "xelatex" in the source, so there's no reason why you couldn't use LuaTeX. XeLaTeX doesn't generate dvi files either. Ask the developers if it is possible to use PDF. It will be much much easier if you could use PDF since you could have all the three engines supported in a single move. If you'll start with dvi, you'll have to reconfigure everything later to make it work with XeTeX and/or LuaTeX. Mojca ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Producing dvi 2009-04-19 19:31 ` Mojca Miklavec @ 2009-04-19 21:05 ` Michail Vidiassov 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Michail Vidiassov @ 2009-04-19 21:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Dear Mojca and All, On Sun, 19 Apr 2009, Mojca Miklavec wrote: >>> (When I last tried to use Asymptote I gave up >>> since I was not able to figure out how to install it and started using >>> other tools.) >> > It would be really nice if someone would be ready to spend time to > include asymptote in TeX Live. That would make installation thousand > times easier. There seems to be a feud between grand wizzards of Asymptote and TeXLive http://groups.google.com/group/comp.text.tex/browse_thread/thread/37143f0885a4d884?hl=en# Sincerely, Michail ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-04-19 21:05 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2009-04-19 11:28 Producing dvi Michail Vidiassov 2009-04-19 11:35 ` Hans Hagen 2009-04-19 12:14 ` Michail Vidiassov 2009-04-19 13:34 ` Hans Hagen 2009-04-19 13:39 ` Michail Vidiassov 2009-04-19 13:47 ` Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد 2009-04-19 14:09 ` Mojca Miklavec 2009-04-19 15:03 ` Michail Vidiassov 2009-04-19 19:31 ` Mojca Miklavec 2009-04-19 21:05 ` Michail Vidiassov
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).