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* tlig feature sometimes does not work
@ 2021-03-11  1:05 Mohammad Hossein Bateni
  2021-03-12 17:32 ` Hans Hagen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Mohammad Hossein Bateni @ 2021-03-11  1:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


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Hi,

Since most fonts do not have the standard tex ligatures built in, I tend to
add them when I load the fonts.  Once in a while, I run into fonts where
this does not work.

See the attached tex/pdf files.  I basically load the font as follows:

\definefontfeature[tf][arabic][tlig=yes]
\definedfont[dejavusansmono*tf]

This works fine for DejaVuSansMono and for one Farsi font I use (
https://github.com/rastikerdar/vazir-font/blob/master/dist/Vazir-Regular.ttf)
but not for this other Farsi font (
https://github.com/aminabedi68/Mikhak/blob/master/Font/ttf/Mikhak-Medium.ttf).
Perhaps this is because the last font is not standard, but
TrueType/OpenType standard is sometimes up for interpretation.

I see two strange symptoms here:

\showotfcomposition displays the tlig feature differently for the last
font.  It appears in the "extra" list, not in "basic".  Why is that?  What
does this mean anyway?

In the pdf, you see two unicode characters U+647 and U+654 following the
numbers and dashes.  This usually has a ligature turning the two characters
into U+6C0.  It happens for VazirRegular but not for Mikhak-Medium.  Why is
that?  I have looked in the font: the ligature exists.  I have seen that
working in this demo page (https://aminabedi68.github.io/Mikhak/), though
it may be hard to spot.  Why is that?  Is there something about the
ordering of OpenType features which causes this behavior, or is there a bug
in the font processing code?

Best,
MHB

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[-- Attachment #2: tlig.tex --]
[-- Type: text/x-tex, Size: 399 bytes --]

\starttext
\def\example{1--2
1---3
هٔ
}
\setupalign[r2l]
\definefontfeature[tf][arabic][tlig=yes]
\definedfont[dejavusansmono*tf]
\example

\definedfont[vazirregular*tf]
\example

\definedfont[mikhak-medium*tf]
\example

\lefttoright
\showotfcomposition{dejavusansmono*tf}{}{1--2 هٔ}
\showotfcomposition{vazirregular*tf}{}{1--2 هٔ}
\showotfcomposition{mikhak-medium*tf}{}{1--2 هٔ}

\stoptext

[-- Attachment #3: tlig.pdf --]
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: tlig feature sometimes does not work
  2021-03-11  1:05 tlig feature sometimes does not work Mohammad Hossein Bateni
@ 2021-03-12 17:32 ` Hans Hagen
  2021-03-13  0:11   ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2021-03-12 17:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Mohammad Hossein Bateni

On 3/11/2021 2:05 AM, Mohammad Hossein Bateni wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Since most fonts do not have the standard tex ligatures built in, I tend 
> to add them when I load the fonts.  Once in a while, I run into fonts 
> where this does not work.
> 
> See the attached tex/pdf files.  I basically load the font as follows:
> 
> \definefontfeature[tf][arabic][tlig=yes]
> \definedfont[dejavusansmono*tf]
> 
> This works fine for DejaVuSansMono and for one Farsi font I use 
> (https://github.com/rastikerdar/vazir-font/blob/master/dist/Vazir-Regular.ttf 
> <https://github.com/rastikerdar/vazir-font/blob/master/dist/Vazir-Regular.ttf>) 
> but not for this other Farsi font 
> (https://github.com/aminabedi68/Mikhak/blob/master/Font/ttf/Mikhak-Medium.ttf 
> <https://github.com/aminabedi68/Mikhak/blob/master/Font/ttf/Mikhak-Medium.ttf>).  
> Perhaps this is because the last font is not standard, but 
> TrueType/OpenType standard is sometimes up for interpretation.
> 
> I see two strange symptoms here:
> 
> \showotfcomposition displays the tlig feature differently for the last 
> font.  It appears in the "extra" list, not in "basic".  Why is that?  
> What does this mean anyway?

The font doesn't have endash and emdash so there is nothing to construct 
from the double -

\starttext
     \definedfont[file:Mikhak-Medium.ttf*default] foo--bar
     [\char"2013]
     [\char"2014]
\stoptext

Just ask the author to add these characters and you're fine.

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: tlig feature sometimes does not work
  2021-03-12 17:32 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2021-03-13  0:11   ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
  2021-03-13  0:13     ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Mohammad Hossein Bateni @ 2021-03-13  0:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Hans Hagen; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users


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That's bad.  It seems, I forgot to add the fallbacks properly.  I will
reach out to the designer to add those chars.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 12:32 PM Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> On 3/11/2021 2:05 AM, Mohammad Hossein Bateni wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Since most fonts do not have the standard tex ligatures built in, I tend
> > to add them when I load the fonts.  Once in a while, I run into fonts
> > where this does not work.
> >
> > See the attached tex/pdf files.  I basically load the font as follows:
> >
> > \definefontfeature[tf][arabic][tlig=yes]
> > \definedfont[dejavusansmono*tf]
> >
> > This works fine for DejaVuSansMono and for one Farsi font I use
> > (
> https://github.com/rastikerdar/vazir-font/blob/master/dist/Vazir-Regular.ttf
> > <
> https://github.com/rastikerdar/vazir-font/blob/master/dist/Vazir-Regular.ttf>)
>
> > but not for this other Farsi font
> > (
> https://github.com/aminabedi68/Mikhak/blob/master/Font/ttf/Mikhak-Medium.ttf
> > <
> https://github.com/aminabedi68/Mikhak/blob/master/Font/ttf/Mikhak-Medium.ttf>).
>
> > Perhaps this is because the last font is not standard, but
> > TrueType/OpenType standard is sometimes up for interpretation.
> >
> > I see two strange symptoms here:
> >
> > \showotfcomposition displays the tlig feature differently for the last
> > font.  It appears in the "extra" list, not in "basic".  Why is that?
> > What does this mean anyway?
>
> The font doesn't have endash and emdash so there is nothing to construct
> from the double -
>
> \starttext
>      \definedfont[file:Mikhak-Medium.ttf*default] foo--bar
>      [\char"2013]
>      [\char"2014]
> \stoptext
>
> Just ask the author to add these characters and you're fine.
>
> Hans
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                            Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>                Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>         tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>

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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: tlig feature sometimes does not work
  2021-03-13  0:11   ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
@ 2021-03-13  0:13     ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
  2021-03-13  1:01       ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
  2021-03-13  8:00       ` Hans Hagen
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Mohammad Hossein Bateni @ 2021-03-13  0:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Hans Hagen; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users


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Any idea why the ligature {U+647 and U+654 => U+6C0} does not kick in?

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 7:11 PM Mohammad Hossein Bateni <bateni@gmail.com>
wrote:

> That's bad.  It seems, I forgot to add the fallbacks properly.  I will
> reach out to the designer to add those chars.
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 12:32 PM Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>> On 3/11/2021 2:05 AM, Mohammad Hossein Bateni wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Since most fonts do not have the standard tex ligatures built in, I
>> tend
>> > to add them when I load the fonts.  Once in a while, I run into fonts
>> > where this does not work.
>> >
>> > See the attached tex/pdf files.  I basically load the font as follows:
>> >
>> > \definefontfeature[tf][arabic][tlig=yes]
>> > \definedfont[dejavusansmono*tf]
>> >
>> > This works fine for DejaVuSansMono and for one Farsi font I use
>> > (
>> https://github.com/rastikerdar/vazir-font/blob/master/dist/Vazir-Regular.ttf
>> > <
>> https://github.com/rastikerdar/vazir-font/blob/master/dist/Vazir-Regular.ttf>)
>>
>> > but not for this other Farsi font
>> > (
>> https://github.com/aminabedi68/Mikhak/blob/master/Font/ttf/Mikhak-Medium.ttf
>> > <
>> https://github.com/aminabedi68/Mikhak/blob/master/Font/ttf/Mikhak-Medium.ttf>).
>>
>> > Perhaps this is because the last font is not standard, but
>> > TrueType/OpenType standard is sometimes up for interpretation.
>> >
>> > I see two strange symptoms here:
>> >
>> > \showotfcomposition displays the tlig feature differently for the last
>> > font.  It appears in the "extra" list, not in "basic".  Why is that?
>> > What does this mean anyway?
>>
>> The font doesn't have endash and emdash so there is nothing to construct
>> from the double -
>>
>> \starttext
>>      \definedfont[file:Mikhak-Medium.ttf*default] foo--bar
>>      [\char"2013]
>>      [\char"2014]
>> \stoptext
>>
>> Just ask the author to add these characters and you're fine.
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>                                            Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>                Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>         tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>

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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: tlig feature sometimes does not work
  2021-03-13  0:13     ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
@ 2021-03-13  1:01       ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
  2021-03-13  8:12         ` Hans Hagen
  2021-03-13  8:00       ` Hans Hagen
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Mohammad Hossein Bateni @ 2021-03-13  1:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Hans Hagen; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users


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Umm... the fallbacks are correct.  My conclusion is that tlig does not work
when the character is not in the font itself.  Is that the case?  Is this a
bug or a feature?

\starttext

 \definefontfallback[fall][dejavusansmono][0-0xfffff][check=yes,force=no]
     \definefontsynonym[Test][file:Mikhak-Medium.ttf][fallbacks=fall]
     \definefontfeature[tf][arabic][tlig=yes]
     \definedfont[Test*tf]
     foo--bar
     [\char"2013]
     [\char"2014]
\stoptext

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 7:13 PM Mohammad Hossein Bateni <bateni@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Any idea why the ligature {U+647 and U+654 => U+6C0} does not kick in?
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 7:11 PM Mohammad Hossein Bateni <bateni@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> That's bad.  It seems, I forgot to add the fallbacks properly.  I will
>> reach out to the designer to add those chars.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 12:32 PM Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/11/2021 2:05 AM, Mohammad Hossein Bateni wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > Since most fonts do not have the standard tex ligatures built in, I
>>> tend
>>> > to add them when I load the fonts.  Once in a while, I run into fonts
>>> > where this does not work.
>>> >
>>> > See the attached tex/pdf files.  I basically load the font as follows:
>>> >
>>> > \definefontfeature[tf][arabic][tlig=yes]
>>> > \definedfont[dejavusansmono*tf]
>>> >
>>> > This works fine for DejaVuSansMono and for one Farsi font I use
>>> > (
>>> https://github.com/rastikerdar/vazir-font/blob/master/dist/Vazir-Regular.ttf
>>> > <
>>> https://github.com/rastikerdar/vazir-font/blob/master/dist/Vazir-Regular.ttf>)
>>>
>>> > but not for this other Farsi font
>>> > (
>>> https://github.com/aminabedi68/Mikhak/blob/master/Font/ttf/Mikhak-Medium.ttf
>>> > <
>>> https://github.com/aminabedi68/Mikhak/blob/master/Font/ttf/Mikhak-Medium.ttf>).
>>>
>>> > Perhaps this is because the last font is not standard, but
>>> > TrueType/OpenType standard is sometimes up for interpretation.
>>> >
>>> > I see two strange symptoms here:
>>> >
>>> > \showotfcomposition displays the tlig feature differently for the last
>>> > font.  It appears in the "extra" list, not in "basic".  Why is that?
>>> > What does this mean anyway?
>>>
>>> The font doesn't have endash and emdash so there is nothing to construct
>>> from the double -
>>>
>>> \starttext
>>>      \definedfont[file:Mikhak-Medium.ttf*default] foo--bar
>>>      [\char"2013]
>>>      [\char"2014]
>>> \stoptext
>>>
>>> Just ask the author to add these characters and you're fine.
>>>
>>> Hans
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>                                            Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>>                Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>>         tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>

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If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: tlig feature sometimes does not work
  2021-03-13  0:13     ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
  2021-03-13  1:01       ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
@ 2021-03-13  8:00       ` Hans Hagen
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2021-03-13  8:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mohammad Hossein Bateni; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users

On 3/13/2021 1:13 AM, Mohammad Hossein Bateni wrote:
> Any idea why the ligature {U+647 and U+654 => U+6C0} does not kick in?
because it's not defined as ligature

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
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___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: tlig feature sometimes does not work
  2021-03-13  1:01       ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
@ 2021-03-13  8:12         ` Hans Hagen
  2021-03-14  3:18           ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2021-03-13  8:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mohammad Hossein Bateni; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users

On 3/13/2021 2:01 AM, Mohammad Hossein Bateni wrote:
> Umm... the fallbacks are correct.  My conclusion is that tlig does not 
> work when the character is not in the font itself.  Is that the case?  
> Is this a bug or a feature?
> 
> \starttext
>      
>   \definefontfallback[fall][dejavusansmono][0-0xfffff][check=yes,force=no]
>       \definefontsynonym[Test][file:Mikhak-Medium.ttf][fallbacks=fall]
>       \definefontfeature[tf][arabic][tlig=yes]
>       \definedfont[Test*tf]
>       foo--bar
>       [\char"2013]
>       [\char"2014]
> \stoptext
... or a misunderdstanding:

\starttext
 
\definefontfallback[myfallback][dejavuserif*default][0x02d,0x2013,0x2014][check=yes,force=yes]
 
\definefontsynonym[mytestfont][file:Mikhak-Medium.ttf][fallbacks=myfallback]
      \definedfont[mytestfont*arabic]
      foo--ofo---oof [\char"002D] [\char"2013] [\char"2014]
\stoptext

for a ligature to be made all the glyphs involved have to come from the 
same font

I think you should wikify this (also because the font once complete is a 
nice one to use in examples),

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: tlig feature sometimes does not work
  2021-03-13  8:12         ` Hans Hagen
@ 2021-03-14  3:18           ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Mohammad Hossein Bateni @ 2021-03-14  3:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Hans Hagen; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1638 bytes --]

Added some notes to the wiki:
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Featuresets#Open-type_features

On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 3:12 AM Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> On 3/13/2021 2:01 AM, Mohammad Hossein Bateni wrote:
> > Umm... the fallbacks are correct.  My conclusion is that tlig does not
> > work when the character is not in the font itself.  Is that the case?
> > Is this a bug or a feature?
> >
> > \starttext
> >
> >
>  \definefontfallback[fall][dejavusansmono][0-0xfffff][check=yes,force=no]
> >       \definefontsynonym[Test][file:Mikhak-Medium.ttf][fallbacks=fall]
> >       \definefontfeature[tf][arabic][tlig=yes]
> >       \definedfont[Test*tf]
> >       foo--bar
> >       [\char"2013]
> >       [\char"2014]
> > \stoptext
> ... or a misunderdstanding:
>
> \starttext
>
>
> \definefontfallback[myfallback][dejavuserif*default][0x02d,0x2013,0x2014][check=yes,force=yes]
>
>
> \definefontsynonym[mytestfont][file:Mikhak-Medium.ttf][fallbacks=myfallback]
>       \definedfont[mytestfont*arabic]
>       foo--ofo---oof [\char"002D] [\char"2013] [\char"2014]
> \stoptext
>
> for a ligature to be made all the glyphs involved have to come from the
> same font
>
> I think you should wikify this (also because the font once complete is a
> nice one to use in examples),
>
> Hans
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                            Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>                Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>         tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>

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If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-03-14  3:18 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-03-11  1:05 tlig feature sometimes does not work Mohammad Hossein Bateni
2021-03-12 17:32 ` Hans Hagen
2021-03-13  0:11   ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
2021-03-13  0:13     ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
2021-03-13  1:01       ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
2021-03-13  8:12         ` Hans Hagen
2021-03-14  3:18           ` Mohammad Hossein Bateni
2021-03-13  8:00       ` Hans Hagen

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