* (fake) bold as font feature
@ 2018-03-26 11:40 Pablo Rodriguez
2018-03-26 14:55 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Pablo Rodriguez @ 2018-03-26 11:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Hans,
would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
font feature) that fakes the bold font with
\starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?
This was already requested by Ulrike Fischer
(https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2017/090094.html).
Many thanks for your help,
Pablo
--
http://www.ousia.tk
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: (fake) bold as font feature
2018-03-26 11:40 (fake) bold as font feature Pablo Rodriguez
@ 2018-03-26 14:55 ` Hans Hagen
2018-03-26 17:24 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2018-03-26 14:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On 3/26/2018 1:40 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
> Hans,
>
> would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
> font feature) that fakes the bold font with
> \starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?
much is possible if i can motivate myself
> This was already requested by Ulrike Fischer
> (https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2017/090094.html).
hm, i don't like such crappy features but anyway it has to be done at
the engine level (some efficient generic extension) ... so, if i add
something like that it won't happen in the current luatex release (which
is close to being frozen due to tex live) but later (e.g. the ctx
meeting luatex release)
(even then it probably demands some heuristic dimension trickery when
loading a font)
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: (fake) bold as font feature
2018-03-26 14:55 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2018-03-26 17:24 ` Hans Hagen
2018-03-26 21:02 ` Pablo Rodriguez
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2018-03-26 17:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On 3/26/2018 4:55 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 3/26/2018 1:40 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> Hans,
>>
>> would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
>> font feature) that fakes the bold font with
>> \starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?
>
> much is possible if i can motivate myself
>
>> This was already requested by Ulrike Fischer
>> (https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2017/090094.html).
> hm, i don't like such crappy features but anyway it has to be done at
> the engine level (some efficient generic extension) ... so, if i add
> something like that it won't happen in the current luatex release (which
> is close to being frozen due to tex live) but later (e.g. the ctx
> meeting luatex release)
>
> (even then it probably demands some heuristic dimension trickery when
> loading a font)
i did some experiments and there will be something in luatex 1.08 or
1.09 (planned to be released in september) so you have to be patient
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: (fake) bold as font feature
2018-03-26 17:24 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2018-03-26 21:02 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2018-03-27 7:01 ` Hans Hagen
2018-03-28 9:32 ` luigi scarso
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Pablo Rodriguez @ 2018-03-26 21:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On 03/26/2018 07:24 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 3/26/2018 4:55 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 3/26/2018 1:40 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>>> Hans,
>>>
>>> would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
>>> font feature) that fakes the bold font with
>>> \starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?
>>
>> much is possible if i can motivate myself
Good to know in order to propose new features :-).
>>> This was already requested by Ulrike Fischer
>>> (https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2017/090094.html).
>> hm, i don't like such crappy features but anyway it has to be done at
>> the engine level (some efficient generic extension) ... so, if i add
>> something like that it won't happen in the current luatex release (which
>> is close to being frozen due to tex live) but later (e.g. the ctx
>> meeting luatex release)
>>
>> (even then it probably demands some heuristic dimension trickery when
>> loading a font)
> i did some experiments and there will be something in luatex 1.08 or
> 1.09 (planned to be released in september) so you have to be patient
Just out of curiosity (and not related to this feature), I see that
Windows and Linux binaries (both 64bit) in the Suite contain different
versions (1.08 v. 1.07).
Is version 1.08 to be released or only the Windows platform contains the
latest stable binaries for LuaTeX?
Many thanks for your help,
Pablo
--
http://www.ousia.tk
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: (fake) bold as font feature
2018-03-26 21:02 ` Pablo Rodriguez
@ 2018-03-27 7:01 ` Hans Hagen
2018-03-27 16:59 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2018-03-28 9:32 ` luigi scarso
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2018-03-27 7:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Pablo Rodriguez
On 3/26/2018 11:02 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
> On 03/26/2018 07:24 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 3/26/2018 4:55 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> On 3/26/2018 1:40 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>>>> Hans,
>>>>
>>>> would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
>>>> font feature) that fakes the bold font with
>>>> \starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?
>>>
>>> much is possible if i can motivate myself
>
> Good to know in order to propose new features :-).
>
>>>> This was already requested by Ulrike Fischer
>>>> (https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2017/090094.html).
>>> hm, i don't like such crappy features but anyway it has to be done at
>>> the engine level (some efficient generic extension) ... so, if i add
>>> something like that it won't happen in the current luatex release (which
>>> is close to being frozen due to tex live) but later (e.g. the ctx
>>> meeting luatex release)
>>>
>>> (even then it probably demands some heuristic dimension trickery when
>>> loading a font)
>> i did some experiments and there will be something in luatex 1.08 or
>> 1.09 (planned to be released in september) so you have to be patient
>
> Just out of curiosity (and not related to this feature), I see that
> Windows and Linux binaries (both 64bit) in the Suite contain different
> versions (1.08 v. 1.07).
>
> Is version 1.08 to be released or only the Windows platform contains the
> latest stable binaries for LuaTeX?
only after tex live has been frozen (tag 1.07) we will officially move
to 1.08 (then trunk)
windows always has the edge as Akira compiles the latest greatest too so
that permits experiments (he also always tests it so that helps us a lot)
don't expect support for experimental versions on this mailing list as
we feel free to change whatever we like
(fwiw: we don't expect huge functionality changes .. the biggest change
coming is lua 5.3 which can have a few consequences for those writing
lua as well as a 5-10 % performance boost)
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: (fake) bold as font feature
2018-03-27 7:01 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2018-03-27 16:59 ` Pablo Rodriguez
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Pablo Rodriguez @ 2018-03-27 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
On 03/27/2018 09:01 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 3/26/2018 11:02 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> [...]
>> Just out of curiosity (and not related to this feature), I see that
>> Windows and Linux binaries (both 64bit) in the Suite contain different
>> versions (1.08 v. 1.07).
>>
>> Is version 1.08 to be released or only the Windows platform contains the
>> latest stable binaries for LuaTeX?
> only after tex live has been frozen (tag 1.07) we will officially move
> to 1.08 (then trunk)
>
> windows always has the edge as Akira compiles the latest greatest too so
> that permits experiments (he also always tests it so that helps us a lot)
>
> don't expect support for experimental versions on this mailing list as
> we feel free to change whatever we like
>
> (fwiw: we don't expect huge functionality changes .. the biggest change
> coming is lua 5.3 which can have a few consequences for those writing
> lua as well as a 5-10 % performance boost)
Many thanks for your reply, Hans.
I understand now why Windows always has the edge versions ;-).
Pablo
--
http://www.ousia.tk
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: (fake) bold as font feature
2018-03-26 21:02 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2018-03-27 7:01 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2018-03-28 9:32 ` luigi scarso
2018-03-28 10:29 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso @ 2018-03-28 9:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 11:02 PM, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:
> On 03/26/2018 07:24 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 3/26/2018 4:55 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> On 3/26/2018 1:40 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>>>> Hans,
>>>>
>>>> would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
>>>> font feature) that fakes the bold font with
>>>> \starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?
>>>
>>> much is possible if i can motivate myself
>
> Good to know in order to propose new features :-).
Hm.
Fake bold / slanted / small caps /<what ever> of a base font
are dangerous, there is an high risk to compromise the
legibility of the text (this is especially true nowadays with user
consumer tablets 10" full hd ).
A font is not only glyphs, but also kernings and hints and all these
things must match.
As Knuth shown , the right way is to design from the beginning how
each glyph should be transformed
instead of apply to all the glyphs the same transformation (which is
faster, this is sure).
This is the key concept of metafont --- in my opinion better than the
variable fonts .
I am not saying that this impossible to do in context-mkiv ( *it is*
possible: just see 5.3 Virtual fonts of the luatex reference)
but in the end the result is the same of write the correct
bold/slanted/small caps/<whatever> version of the base font .
--
luigi
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: (fake) bold as font feature
2018-03-28 9:32 ` luigi scarso
@ 2018-03-28 10:29 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2018-03-28 10:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, luigi scarso
On 3/28/2018 11:32 AM, luigi scarso wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 11:02 PM, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:
>> On 03/26/2018 07:24 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> On 3/26/2018 4:55 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>>> On 3/26/2018 1:40 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>>>>> Hans,
>>>>>
>>>>> would it be possible to add a embold feature (similar to the slanted
>>>>> font feature) that fakes the bold font with
>>>>> \starteffect[both]...\stopeffect and it doesn’t strecht the font?
>>>>
>>>> much is possible if i can motivate myself
>>
>> Good to know in order to propose new features :-).
> Hm.
> Fake bold / slanted / small caps /<what ever> of a base font
> are dangerous, there is an high risk to compromise the
> legibility of the text (this is especially true nowadays with user
> consumer tablets 10" full hd ).
> A font is not only glyphs, but also kernings and hints and all these
> things must match.
> As Knuth shown , the right way is to design from the beginning how
> each glyph should be transformed
> instead of apply to all the glyphs the same transformation (which is
> faster, this is sure).
> This is the key concept of metafont --- in my opinion better than the
> variable fonts .
> I am not saying that this impossible to do in context-mkiv ( *it is*
> possible: just see 5.3 Virtual fonts of the luatex reference)
> but in the end the result is the same of write the correct
> bold/slanted/small caps/<whatever> version of the base font .
it's anyway not true to say that 'boldening a font' is a bold font ..
it's more like: hey, we can do the same as all these font vendors,
provide 25 weights of the same base regular (we can't go thinner btw)
a boldened latin modern regular for instance looks like a real 'modern'
latin modern and looks way different from the metafontish produced bold
latin modern (i actually like the boldened more in this case so we can
have a "modern latin modern" typescript ... of course math is a
different issue but even that can be made acceptable
it anway makes a nice topic / presentation for the ctx meeting
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
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2018-03-26 11:40 (fake) bold as font feature Pablo Rodriguez
2018-03-26 14:55 ` Hans Hagen
2018-03-26 17:24 ` Hans Hagen
2018-03-26 21:02 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2018-03-27 7:01 ` Hans Hagen
2018-03-27 16:59 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2018-03-28 9:32 ` luigi scarso
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