[NTG-context] bibliography questions

[NTG-context] bibliography questions

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

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My example is setup as advised in the manual:

"""
%\mainlanguage[de]
\usebtxdataset[beispiel][bib_example.bib]
\setupbtx[dataset=beispiel]
%\usebtxdefinitions[apa]
\definebtxrendering[beispiel][apa][dataset=beispiel,group=beispiele]

\starttext
\placelistofpublications[beispiel]

\cite[authoryear] [WiFo2010]

\cite[authoryear] [rattenhka]

\stoptext
"""

But I get the error message:

"""
system          > error: invalid parent apa for beispiel, apa defined 
too (best check it)
system          > error: invalid parent btx:apa for btx:beispiel, 
btx:apa defined too (best check it)
"""

Are these messages wrong? And why do they come from "system" and not 
from "publications"?


My minimal example works anyway, still investigating why it doesn’t in 
my book.


Another question:

Consider:
@Book {rattenhka,
author = "Bettina von Arnim and Gisela von Arnim",
title = "Das Leben der Hochgräfin Gritta von Rattenzuhausbeiuns",
…
}

The authors are usually given as “Bettina and Gisela von Arnim” (mother 
and daughter; similar “Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm” as brothers or “Bettina 
and Achim von Arnim” as a couple) – is there a good solution for related 
authors?

Hraban

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@Book {WiFo2010,
	title = "Lesetypografie",
	author = "Willberg, Hans Peter and Forssman, Friedrich",
	publisher = "Hermann Schmidt",
	address = "Mainz",
	year = "2010",
  language = "german",
	keywords = "typography",
}

@Book {kgdz,
	author = "Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow",
	title = "Die kürzeste Geschichte der Zeit",
	title:en = "A Briefer History of Time",
	publisher = "Rowohlt",
	address = "Reinbek",
	year = "2005",
	language = "german",
	keywords = "physics;astromy;time",
}

@Book {rattenhka,
	author = "Bettina von Arnim and Gisela von Arnim",
	title = "Das Leben der Hochgräfin Gritta von Rattenzuhausbeiuns",
	editor = "Otto Mallon",
	publisher = "S. Martin Fraenkel",
	address = "Berlin",
	year = "1926",
	language = "german",
	keywords = "novel;historical",
}

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[NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions

[Alan Braslau via ntg-context]

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:13:52 +0200
Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> wrote:

> Consider:
> @Book {rattenhka,
> author = "Bettina von Arnim and Gisela von Arnim",
> title = "Das Leben der Hochgräfin Gritta von Rattenzuhausbeiuns",
> …
> }
> 
> The authors are usually given as “Bettina and Gisela von Arnim”
> (mother and daughter; similar “Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm” as brothers
> or “Bettina and Achim von Arnim” as a couple) – is there a good
> solution for related authors?

Multiple authors should be treated as multiple authors. That they are
related is not and should not be a consideration in citing works. At
least this is the practice that I know of for academic texts.

You can cheat and try to define one author with a combined first name,
like
author={Eames, Ray & Earl},
but I don't know how that parses as I have never tried it; "and" is a
reserved token used to define multiple authors. I wouldn't do it as I
can think of many examples (Bjaer & Bjaer) where we give both credit,
individually.

Alan
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[NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 03.10.23 um 02:02 schrieb Alan Braslau:
> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:13:52 +0200
> Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> wrote:
> 
>> Consider:
>> @Book {rattenhka,
>> author = "Bettina von Arnim and Gisela von Arnim",
>> title = "Das Leben der Hochgräfin Gritta von Rattenzuhausbeiuns",
>> …
>> }
>>
>> The authors are usually given as “Bettina and Gisela von Arnim”
>> (mother and daughter; similar “Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm” as brothers
>> or “Bettina and Achim von Arnim” as a couple) – is there a good
>> solution for related authors?
> 
> Multiple authors should be treated as multiple authors. That they are
> related is not and should not be a consideration in citing works. At
> least this is the practice that I know of for academic texts.
> 
> You can cheat and try to define one author with a combined first name,
> like
> author={Eames, Ray & Earl},
> but I don't know how that parses as I have never tried it; "and" is a
> reserved token used to define multiple authors. I wouldn't do it as I
> can think of many examples (Bjaer & Bjaer) where we give both credit,
> individually.

Thank you.

It seems like database solutions like BibTeX & Cie are generally not 
suitable for quoting books as they were published – and that’s important 
in the contexts of “my” authors (literary studies, history).

For my ConTeXt book, I thought it would make sense, and I would jump 
through some hoops just to use the system, but
– most sources that I want to list are never quoted (method=dataset)
– I would need to define my own rendering, e.g. don’t like the handling 
of names
– I need additional fields (custom rendering again)
– if I refer to sources, I want a URL or file path in a footnote (custom 
cite wrapper macro)
This all works fine without the btx subsysten (I just need to find 
solutions for some edge cases, or avoid them), so I probably had wrong 
ideas about bibliographies (at least in TeX).

OTOH, for my novel I can use the bib database approach for an extended 
person register; the required rendering is much less involved.

Hraban
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[NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions

[Aditya Mahajan]

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On Tue, 3 Oct 2023, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

> For my ConTeXt book, I thought it would make sense, and I would jump through
> some hoops just to use the system, but
> – most sources that I want to list are never quoted (method=dataset)
> – I would need to define my own rendering, e.g. don’t like the handling of
> names
> – I need additional fields (custom rendering again)
> – if I refer to sources, I want a URL or file path in a footnote (custom cite wrapper macro)

When I have to write your own rendering, I find it more convenient to use XML/JSON (or even a lua table) as a starting format.

Aditya

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[NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 03.10.23 um 23:08 schrieb Aditya Mahajan:
> On Tue, 3 Oct 2023, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> 
>> For my ConTeXt book, I thought it would make sense, and I would jump through
>> some hoops just to use the system, but
>> – most sources that I want to list are never quoted (method=dataset)
>> – I would need to define my own rendering, e.g. don’t like the handling of
>> names
>> – I need additional fields (custom rendering again)
>> – if I refer to sources, I want a URL or file path in a footnote (custom cite wrapper macro)
> 
> When I have to write your own rendering, I find it more convenient to use XML/JSON (or even a lua table) as a starting format.

I don’t understand how a custom rendering relates to the input database?

My bib database is already complete, and I find the format much more 
comfortable to write than XML.

Hraban
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