* beginners manual @ 2005-11-26 0:53 Hans Hagen 2005-11-26 8:11 ` VnPenguin ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-26 0:53 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi, I 'reorganized' (split) the beginners manual and put it in svn, so anyone who is willing to translate can check out a copy. I didn't yet change anything (only the file structure etc) and the styles need a cleanup (more modern setup). Because each chapter now has its own file, we can (as suggested on this list) edit piecewise. Don't start yet. First we need to add/remove things and rewrite chapters. But you can try to compile the file. Hans ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-26 0:53 beginners manual Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-26 8:11 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-26 11:07 ` Taco Hoekwater 2005-11-26 23:12 ` VnPenguin ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: VnPenguin @ 2005-11-26 8:11 UTC (permalink / raw) On 11/26/05, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote: > Hi, > > I 'reorganized' (split) the beginners manual and put it in svn, so > anyone who is willing to translate can check out a copy. I didn't yet > change anything (only the file structure etc) and the styles need a > cleanup (more modern setup). Because each chapter now has its own file, > we can (as suggested on this list) edit piecewise. Don't start yet. > First we need to add/remove things and rewrite chapters. But you can try > to compile the file. Just tried to compile: $ texexec --pdf ma-cb-en and I got: [skip] (/work/apps/teTeX/share/texmf-local/tex/context/base/type-buy.tex))kpathsea: Running mktextfm uplr8t mktextfm: Running mf-nowin -progname=mf \mode:=ljfive; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input uplr8t This is METAFONT, Version 2.71828 (Web2C 7.5.4) kpathsea: Running mktexmf uplr8t ! I can't find file `uplr8t'. <*> ...:=ljfive; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input uplr8t Please type another input file name ! Emergency stop. <*> ...:=ljfive; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input uplr8t Transcript written on mfput.log. grep: uplr8t.log: No such file or directory mktextfm: `mf-nowin -progname=mf \mode:=ljfive; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input uplr8t' failed to make uplr8t.tfm. kpathsea: Appending font creation commands to missfont.log. ! Font \*palatino12ptrmtf*:=uplr8t at 12.0pt not loadable: Metric (TFM) file no t found. <to be read again> \relax \xxdododefinefont ...tspec {#4}\newfontidentifier \let \localrelativefontsiz... \fontstrategy ...me \fontclass #2#3#4#5\endcsname \tryingfontfalse \fi <inserted text> ...yle \fontalternative \fontsize \fi \iftryingfont \fontstr... \synchronizefont ...strategy \the \fontstrategies \relax \fi \iftryingfont \... <argument> \getvalue {\@style@ \fontstyle } \edef \fontstyle {\fontstyle }\if... ... l.65 \setupbodyfont[palatino,10pt] ? ------------ end -------------------------------------------- My ConTeXt: $ texexec --version TeXExec 5.4.3 - ConTeXt / PRAGMA ADE 1997-2005 texexec : TeXExec 5.4.3 - ConTeXt / PRAGMA ADE 1997-2005 texutil : TeXUtil 9.0.0 - ConTeXt / PRAGMA ADE 1992-2004 tex : pdfeTeX, 3.141592-1.30.4-2.2 (Web2C 7.5.5) context : ver: 2005.11.24 cont-en : ver: 2005.11.24 fmt: 2005.11.24 mes: english total run time : 1 seconds I'm wrong my compiling command ? Thank you, -- http://vnoss.org Vietnamese Open Source Software Community ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-26 8:11 ` VnPenguin @ 2005-11-26 11:07 ` Taco Hoekwater 2005-11-26 12:57 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-26 19:46 ` David Arnold 0 siblings, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2005-11-26 11:07 UTC (permalink / raw) VnPenguin wrote: > Just tried to compile: > $ texexec --pdf ma-cb-en > > and I got: > > [skip] Hi, Please read the beginning of the "mfont.tex from manuals" thread (http://archive.contextgarden.net). It is the exact same error David Arnold had. Greetings, Taco ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-26 11:07 ` Taco Hoekwater @ 2005-11-26 12:57 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-27 23:29 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-26 19:46 ` David Arnold 1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: VnPenguin @ 2005-11-26 12:57 UTC (permalink / raw) On 11/26/05, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote: > VnPenguin wrote: > > Just tried to compile: > > $ texexec --pdf ma-cb-en > > > > and I got: > > > > [skip] > > Hi, > > Please read the beginning of the "mfont.tex from manuals" thread > (http://archive.contextgarden.net). It is the exact same error > David Arnold had. Thanks, it's ok. But I have to add: \usemodule[abr-01] into ma-cb-abbreviations.tex in order to fix error \ASCII non defined. Regards, -- http://vnoss.org Vietnamese Open Source Software Community ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-26 12:57 ` VnPenguin @ 2005-11-27 23:29 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-28 7:27 ` VnPenguin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-27 23:29 UTC (permalink / raw) VnPenguin wrote: >On 11/26/05, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote: > > >>VnPenguin wrote: >> >> >>>Just tried to compile: >>>$ texexec --pdf ma-cb-en >>> >>>and I got: >>> >>>[skip] >>> >>> >>Hi, >> >>Please read the beginning of the "mfont.tex from manuals" thread >>(http://archive.contextgarden.net). It is the exact same error >>David Arnold had. >> >> > >Thanks, it's ok. But I have to add: > >\usemodule[abr-01] > >into ma-cb-abbreviations.tex in order to fix error \ASCII non defined. > > > no, you need a new version of context -) when setting this up i decided to add a language system mode (i'll send you the file) so that we can let styles adapt to languages Hans ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-27 23:29 ` Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-28 7:27 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-28 10:27 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: VnPenguin @ 2005-11-28 7:27 UTC (permalink / raw) On 11/28/05, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote: > >Thanks, it's ok. But I have to add: > > > >\usemodule[abr-01] > > > >into ma-cb-abbreviations.tex in order to fix error \ASCII non defined. > > > > > > > no, you need a new version of context -) Release 2005.11.24 is not ok for this ? Thank you, -- http://vnoss.org Vietnamese Open Source Software Community ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-28 7:27 ` VnPenguin @ 2005-11-28 10:27 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-28 10:27 UTC (permalink / raw) VnPenguin wrote: >On 11/28/05, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote: > > >>>Thanks, it's ok. But I have to add: >>> >>>\usemodule[abr-01] >>> >>>into ma-cb-abbreviations.tex in order to fix error \ASCII non defined. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>no, you need a new version of context -) >> >> > >Release 2005.11.24 is not ok for this ? > > > i patched that at the day i uploaded the manuals to svn -) Hans ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-26 11:07 ` Taco Hoekwater 2005-11-26 12:57 ` VnPenguin @ 2005-11-26 19:46 ` David Arnold 1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: David Arnold @ 2005-11-26 19:46 UTC (permalink / raw) Hans, Taco, et al, It's time for me to wax philosophic on the beginner's manual. I've read a few posts to this list, and tried to think back to my experience, and looked at my troubles now, but I haven't reread the beginner's manual as yet. That I will do in the upcoming weeks. My first thought is this: In my opinion, the beginner's manual remains one of very best sources for Context. My second thought is the fact that this is a beginner's manual in every sense of the word. That is, you need to be very careful with what goes into the manual. Truly, a guiding principle should be: What does a beginner need to see? Think of a user who is beginning with a blank slate, or alternatively, think of a user who's been gone for a while (I've qualified for this category on several occasions and revisiting the beginner's manual has always been helpful). What does this user need to see? And what does this user need to be protected from? First and foremost, you've got to make sure that users on different platforms have a good install of Context. This could be a set of appendices: Appendix A -- Installation on Windows, Appendix B -- Installation on Linux, Appendix C -- Installation on Mac OS. Again, users could be very helpful in testing these instructions. This is a "beginner's manual," so it would be helpful if these instructions were of the "Quick Start" variety, as involved instructions will only serve to frustrate the beginner. Of course, these instructions should include a "Hello, World!" example in order to test for a valid installation. Whenever I teach a new concept in mathematics, I'm faced with a choice of two directions. I can start with the concept, then give examples. Or I can do some examples, then discuss the abstraction at a higher level. I am constantly forgetting that the second method is usually a better choice for my students. For example, suppose that I want to show that any multiple of an eigenvector is again an eigenvector of a given matrix. I can first prove it in the abstract (A (cx)=c(Ax)=c(lx)=l(cx)), then give examples. Alternatively, I can put a little 2x2 matrix on the board, find the eigenvectors, then demonstrate that multiples of the eigenvectors are again eigenvectors. Once the students have the idea, then I can put up the abstraction of the general proof. A reference manual is an example of the first method, a beginner's manual should follow the second method. It's easier, in my opinion, to learn by example, to learn by doing. Topics should be included or excluded based on a guiding principle: What does a beginner need to know to get started? It will be tempting to include using a different font, or talk about interactive documents, etc, but these are advanced topics, which belong in separate manuals where space and time will do them justice. Indeed, what is truly needed is a separate beginner's manual on interactive documents. Layout really threw me for a loss the first time (and times thereafter) I went through the beginner's manual. I was confronted with terms (cutspace, backspace) that might be familiar to typographers, but I had no clue what they meant. I can remember spending countless hours tweaking layout parameters, printing, then measuring with a ruler, only to scratch my head when I did not get predicted results. To this day, I am still not completely sure what I am doing in this area. I think what is needed in the beginner's manual is an image similar to Patrick's \ShowLayout result from his t- layout module. Secondly, it would be time well spent to build an improved \showframe command. Perhaps this even exists, but I am not aware of it. It needs to provide accurate measurements, even when printed and the rulers come out. Perhaps if a user included the \showframe command, a trigger of some sort could change the size of the paper that the document is typeset on, with an outline of the actual paper size, and the edges, margins, headers, etc, all framed and in view, even if they lie outside the actual paper outline. List users can help to make sure that the manual is free of errors. If something doesn't work, this is much more upsetting to a beginner than a seasoned user. A seasoned user might say "oh, that's just a typo, do this," but a beginner has an entirely different reaction on an entirely different emotional level. Troubleshooting should get some time in the beginner's manual. People coming from a Word environment are not going to understand what is going on when a compilation halts. Seasoned TeX users know about typing h, x, s, e, etc, but people who've never seen TeX before are going to freak out. So, some time should be spent on troubleshooting. Or, a conscious decision has to be made: Will we assume that all beginners in Context have TeX experience? So, I advise, stick to the basics. Get the user started. Ask yourself what a user needs to write a good paper: Title page, abstract, toc, index, bibliography, section headers, headers and footers, footnotes, labels and references, mathematics (somewhat weak in the current manual), tables, figures (including the idea of floats which bothers users coming from Word no end), lists, layout, alignment, quotations, formating text (bold, italic, slant, verbatim, etc), defining new environments for examples, definitions, theorems, etc., and some small macro capability. Finally, you should certainly provide pointers to advanced documents where users can continue their growth. I hope this helps. David ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-26 0:53 beginners manual Hans Hagen 2005-11-26 8:11 ` VnPenguin @ 2005-11-26 23:12 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-27 23:26 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-27 13:27 ` Vit Zyka 2005-11-28 13:13 ` Mari Voipio 3 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: VnPenguin @ 2005-11-26 23:12 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi Hans et al, Just tried to compile "ma-cb-en" with T5. Here are some remarks: 1. \def\TitlePage#1#2#3 in file "ma-cb-style.tex" does not work with T5. Because of \definedfont[SansBold at 40pt] I lossed so many vietnamese accented characters. I have to change to \switchtobodyfont[40pt]\bf in order to make T5 work. I think the file "ma-cb-style.tex" needs more attention for multi-lang support. 2. In file "ma-cb-en-document.tex" : ... \CONTEXT\ expects a plain \ASCII\ input file. Of course you can use any texteditor or wordprocessor you want, but you should not forget that \CONTEXT\ can only read \ASCII\ input. Most texteditors or wordprocessors can export your file as plain \ASCII. ... What do you think about a plain text input file in UTF-8 charset ? It's not ASCII by definition, but the current ConTeXt (pdfetex) can work with it no problem. All my works with ConTeXt are prepared in UTF-8 input file. That's all for now. Thank you for your work, Regards, -- http://vnoss.org Vietnamese Open Source Software Community ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-26 23:12 ` VnPenguin @ 2005-11-27 23:26 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-28 20:16 ` VnPenguin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-27 23:26 UTC (permalink / raw) VnPenguin wrote: >Hi Hans et al, > >Just tried to compile "ma-cb-en" with T5. Here are some remarks: > >1. \def\TitlePage#1#2#3 in file "ma-cb-style.tex" does not work with T5. >Because of > >\definedfont[SansBold at 40pt] > >I lossed so many vietnamese accented characters. I have to change to > >\switchtobodyfont[40pt]\bf > >in order to make T5 work. I think the file "ma-cb-style.tex" needs >more attention for multi-lang support. > > > sure, the only thing i did so far is split and reorganize; at your place, it runs with: \startnotmode[atpragma] \usetypescriptfile[type-buy] \usetypescript[palatino][ec] \setupbodyfont[palatino,10pt] \stopnotmode so for vietnamese you need another encoding. (i added language modes, so we can now do for vietnamese): \startmode[*vn] \enableregime[utf] \setupencoding[default=t5] \stopmode \startnotmode[atpragma] \usetypescriptfile[type-buy] \usetypescript[palatino][\defaultencoding] \setupbodyfont[palatino,10pt] \stopnotmode (in ma-cb-style.tex) can you test that? >2. In file "ma-cb-en-document.tex" : >... >\CONTEXT\ expects a plain \ASCII\ input file. Of course you >can use any texteditor or wordprocessor you want, but you >should not forget that \CONTEXT\ can only read \ASCII\ >input. Most texteditors or wordprocessors can export your >file as plain \ASCII. >... >What do you think about a plain text input file in UTF-8 charset ? >It's not ASCII by definition, but the current ConTeXt (pdfetex) can >work with it no problem. All my works with ConTeXt are prepared in >UTF-8 input file. > > > sure, no problem for the vn version Hans ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-27 23:26 ` Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-28 20:16 ` VnPenguin 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: VnPenguin @ 2005-11-28 20:16 UTC (permalink / raw) On 11/28/05, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote: > > so for vietnamese you need another encoding. > > (i added language modes, so we can now do for vietnamese): > > \startmode[*vn] > \enableregime[utf] > \setupencoding[default=t5] > \stopmode > > \startnotmode[atpragma] > > \usetypescriptfile[type-buy] > \usetypescript[palatino][\defaultencoding] > \setupbodyfont[palatino,10pt] > > \stopnotmode > > (in ma-cb-style.tex) > > can you test that? > It does not work :( ... (/work/apps/teTeX/share/texmf-local/tex/context/base/type-buy.tex))kpathsea: Running mktextfm uplr8t mktextfm: Running mf-nowin -progname=mf \mode:=ljfive; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input uplr8t This is METAFONT, Version 2.71828 (Web2C 7.5.4) kpathsea: Running mktexmf uplr8t ! I can't find file `uplr8t'. <*> ...:=ljfive; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input uplr8t Please type another input file name ! Emergency stop. <*> ...:=ljfive; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input uplr8t Transcript written on mfput.log. grep: uplr8t.log: No such file or directory mktextfm: `mf-nowin -progname=mf \mode:=ljfive; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input uplr8t' failed to make uplr8t.tfm. kpathsea: Appending font creation commands to missfont.log. ! Font \*palatino12ptrmtf*:=uplr8t at 12.0pt not loadable: Metric (TFM) file no t found. <to be read again> \relax \xxdododefinefont ...tspec {#4}\newfontidentifier \let \localrelativefontsiz... \fontstrategy ...me \fontclass #2#3#4#5\endcsname \tryingfontfalse \fi <inserted text> ...yle \fontalternative \fontsize \fi \iftryingfont \fontstr... \synchronizefont ...strategy \the \fontstrategies \relax \fi \iftryingfont \... <argument> \getvalue {\@style@ \fontstyle } \edef \fontstyle {\fontstyle }\if... ... l.73 \setupbodyfont[palatino,12pt] ? x But when I try: \startnotmode[atpragma] \enableregime[utf] \setupencoding[default=t5] \usetypescript[berry][\defaultencoding] %\usetypescriptfile[type-buy] \usetypescript[palatino][\defaultencoding] \setupbodyfont[palatino,10pt] \stopnotmode It's OK. Thanks, -- http://vnoss.org Vietnamese Open Source Software Community ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-26 0:53 beginners manual Hans Hagen 2005-11-26 8:11 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-26 23:12 ` VnPenguin @ 2005-11-27 13:27 ` Vit Zyka 2005-11-27 22:34 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-28 13:13 ` Mari Voipio 3 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Vit Zyka @ 2005-11-27 13:27 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Libor Škarvada, David Jež, Ján Buša, Petr Tesařík Hans Hagen wrote: > Hi, > > I 'reorganized' (split) the beginners manual and put it in svn, so > anyone who is willing to translate can check out a copy. I didn't yet > change anything (only the file structure etc) and the styles need a > cleanup (more modern setup). Because each chapter now has its own file, > we can (as suggested on this list) edit piecewise. Don't start yet. > First we need to add/remove things and rewrite chapters. But you can try > to compile the file. > > Hans Hello, I got unexpected positive responce to idea of beginners manual translation on Saturday's Czech/Slovak TUG meeting. The small working group of 5 people was establish there. Nobody but me has context experience now, but I think it is not a serious drawback for translating. There was an interest (when the work will be finnished) to publish it in the Czechoslovac TeX Bulletin. I find only advantages for ConTeXt to do so, nevertheless I have to ask if such idea is welcomed. Vit ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-27 13:27 ` Vit Zyka @ 2005-11-27 22:34 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-28 10:03 ` Vit Zyka 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-27 22:34 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Libor Škarvada, David Jež, Petr Tesařík, Ján Buša Vit Zyka wrote: > I got unexpected positive responce to idea of beginners manual > translation on Saturday's Czech/Slovak TUG meeting. The small working > group of 5 people was establish there. Nobody but me has context > experience now, but I think it is not a serious drawback for translating. i don't know if david antos was present, but he knows his way around context and can be of help (given that he has time) > > There was an interest (when the work will be finnished) to publish it > in the Czechoslovac TeX Bulletin. I find only advantages for ConTeXt > to do so, nevertheless I have to ask if such idea is welcomed. > sure, no problem Hans ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-27 22:34 ` Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-28 10:03 ` Vit Zyka 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Vit Zyka @ 2005-11-28 10:03 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Libor Škarvada, David Jež, Ján Buša, Petr Tesařík Hans Hagen wrote: > Vit Zyka wrote: > >> I got unexpected positive responce to idea of beginners manual >> translation on Saturday's Czech/Slovak TUG meeting. The small working >> group of 5 people was establish there. Nobody but me has context >> experience now, but I think it is not a serious drawback for translating. > > i don't know if david antos was present, but he knows his way around > context and can be of help (given that he has time) He was not. Anybody's help will be welcomed, especially David... Vit ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-26 0:53 beginners manual Hans Hagen ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2005-11-27 13:27 ` Vit Zyka @ 2005-11-28 13:13 ` Mari Voipio 2005-11-28 13:56 ` Taco Hoekwater ` (3 more replies) 3 siblings, 4 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Mari Voipio @ 2005-11-28 13:13 UTC (permalink / raw) Hans Hagen wrote: > I 'reorganized' (split) the beginners manual and put it in svn, so > anyone who is willing to translate can check out a copy. OK, I'm either out of the loop (had off-the-Internet holiday) or just a dummy Windows user, but the above doesn't really parse here so cannot even get started... I've used CVS, but SVN is totally new for me (although I've seen it mentioned here once or twice) - so if anyone has recommendations for what client/program to use in Windows (2000/XP) and Mac OS 10.4, I'd be very interested. And a URL or other directions towards the SVN server (or whatever it is) would be appreciated; my work computer isn't very cooperative with online pdf pages, so I've got real problems with finding anything on Pragma website (*never* install newer Acrobat Reader on a Windows that already has an older full Acrobat...). Feeling really stupid, but grateful for any help Mari ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-28 13:13 ` Mari Voipio @ 2005-11-28 13:56 ` Taco Hoekwater 2005-11-28 14:08 ` Wolfgang Zillig ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2005-11-28 13:56 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi, The SVN repository is here: svn://ctx.pragma-ade.nl/manuals but that only works when you have subversion client installed. In the mean time or for people that cannot get subversion running at all: I have an automatic checkout script that gets called every hour, and the working directory of that is online as: http://context.aanhet.net/svn/ So if you do not mind a lag of 30min \pm 30, you can download/browse that from your normal internet browser. Cheers, Taco Mari Voipio wrote: > Hans Hagen wrote: > >> I 'reorganized' (split) the beginners manual and put it in svn, so >> anyone who is willing to translate can check out a copy. > > > OK, I'm either out of the loop (had off-the-Internet holiday) or just a > dummy Windows user, but the above doesn't really parse here so cannot > even get started... > > I've used CVS, but SVN is totally new for me (although I've seen it > mentioned here once or twice) - so if anyone has recommendations for > what client/program to use in Windows (2000/XP) and Mac OS 10.4, I'd be > very interested. And a URL or other directions towards the SVN server > (or whatever it is) would be appreciated; my work computer isn't very > cooperative with online pdf pages, so I've got real problems with > finding anything on Pragma website (*never* install newer Acrobat Reader > on a Windows that already has an older full Acrobat...). > > > Feeling really stupid, but grateful for any help > > Mari > _______________________________________________ > ntg-context mailing list > ntg-context@ntg.nl > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-28 13:13 ` Mari Voipio 2005-11-28 13:56 ` Taco Hoekwater @ 2005-11-28 14:08 ` Wolfgang Zillig 2005-11-28 15:09 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-28 19:45 ` VnPenguin 3 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Zillig @ 2005-11-28 14:08 UTC (permalink / raw) Mari Voipio schrieb: > Hans Hagen wrote: > >> I 'reorganized' (split) the beginners manual and put it in svn, so >> anyone who is willing to translate can check out a copy. > > > OK, I'm either out of the loop (had off-the-Internet holiday) or just > a dummy Windows user, but the above doesn't really parse here so > cannot even get started... > > I've used CVS, but SVN is totally new for me (although I've seen it > mentioned here once or twice) - so if anyone has recommendations for > what client/program to use in Windows (2000/XP) and Mac OS 10.4, I'd > be very interested. And a URL or other directions towards the SVN > server (or whatever it is) would be appreciated; my work computer > isn't very cooperative with online pdf pages, so I've got real > problems with finding anything on Pragma website (*never* install > newer Acrobat Reader on a Windows that already has an older full > Acrobat...). > For Win there is tortoiseSVN: http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/ You will have to install it. Then create somewhere a new folder. Rightclick on that folder and there should "SVN Checkout" available in the menu use this URL svn://ctx.pragma-ade.nl/manuals When I'm not completely wrong that should be all. Wolfgang ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-28 13:13 ` Mari Voipio 2005-11-28 13:56 ` Taco Hoekwater 2005-11-28 14:08 ` Wolfgang Zillig @ 2005-11-28 15:09 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-28 19:45 ` VnPenguin 3 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-28 15:09 UTC (permalink / raw) Mari Voipio wrote: > Hans Hagen wrote: > >> I 'reorganized' (split) the beginners manual and put it in svn, so >> anyone who is willing to translate can check out a copy. > > > OK, I'm either out of the loop (had off-the-Internet holiday) or just > a dummy Windows user, but the above doesn't really parse here so > cannot even get started... > > I've used CVS, but SVN is totally new for me (although I've seen it > mentioned here once or twice) - so if anyone has recommendations for > what client/program to use in Windows (2000/XP) and Mac OS 10.4, I'd > be very interested. And a URL or other directions towards the SVN > server (or whatever it is) would be appreciated; my work computer > isn't very cooperative with online pdf pages, so I've got real > problems with finding anything on Pragma website (*never* install > newer Acrobat Reader on a Windows that already has an older full > Acrobat...). for windows ... google for "tortoise svn" Hans ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-28 13:13 ` Mari Voipio ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2005-11-28 15:09 ` Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-28 19:45 ` VnPenguin 3 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: VnPenguin @ 2005-11-28 19:45 UTC (permalink / raw) On 11/28/05, Mari Voipio <mari.voipio@iki.fi> wrote: > finding anything on Pragma website (*never* install newer Acrobat Reader > on a Windows that already has an older full Acrobat...). \startOT At work, I have Acrobat 5.0 (full) + Acrobat Reader 7.x => work perfectly :-) \stopOT ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* beginners manual @ 2005-11-21 22:03 Hans Hagen 2005-11-22 16:00 ` VnPenguin ` (10 more replies) 0 siblings, 11 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-21 22:03 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi, I'm going to clean up the beginners manual (at least the source code) so i think this s a good moment to pick up the 'translation' thread So the question is: - what can go out - what should go in - what should be updated as well as: - who will participate (in translation) - how to deal with localization (maybe dedicated language related chapters) Hans ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-21 22:03 Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-22 16:00 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-22 16:39 ` Olivier ` (9 subsequent siblings) 10 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: VnPenguin @ 2005-11-22 16:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On 11/21/05, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm going to clean up the beginners manual (at least the source code) so > i think this s a good moment to pick up the 'translation' thread > > So the question is: > > - what can go out > - what should go in > - what should be updated > > as well as: > > - who will participate (in translation) I have no so many free time but I could organize (I hope) in VnOSS community for vietnamese translation of ConTeXt's manuals. Regards, -- http://vnoss.org Vietnamese Open Source Software Community ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-21 22:03 Hans Hagen 2005-11-22 16:00 ` VnPenguin @ 2005-11-22 16:39 ` Olivier 2005-11-23 10:33 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-22 16:56 ` Jose Antonio Rodriguez ` (8 subsequent siblings) 10 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Olivier @ 2005-11-22 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw) Quoting "Hans Hagen" : > -- was pragma@wxs.nl on Nov 21, 2005 at 11:03:49 -- > as well as: > > - who will participate (in translation) > - how to deal with localization (maybe dedicated language related chapters) I'll be glad to help for the french translation. By the way, what about the translation of the context core? Olivier ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-22 16:39 ` Olivier @ 2005-11-23 10:33 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-23 10:33 UTC (permalink / raw) Olivier wrote: >By the way, what about the translation of the context core? > > all we need is additional entries in the mult-com and mult-con files Hans ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-21 22:03 Hans Hagen 2005-11-22 16:00 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-22 16:39 ` Olivier @ 2005-11-22 16:56 ` Jose Antonio Rodriguez 2005-11-22 17:15 ` Mikael Persson ` (7 subsequent siblings) 10 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Jose Antonio Rodriguez @ 2005-11-22 16:56 UTC (permalink / raw) A las 23:03 del lun 21 nov, Hans Hagen tuvo a bien escribir: > > as well as: > > - who will participate (in translation) > - how to deal with localization (maybe dedicated language related chapters) > I'd like to contribute with the spanish translation -- José Antonio Rodríguez jar@eideia.net ------------------------ 'El Fuego vive en los corazones de quienes aman el futuro' (Agni Yoga) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-21 22:03 Hans Hagen ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2005-11-22 16:56 ` Jose Antonio Rodriguez @ 2005-11-22 17:15 ` Mikael Persson 2005-11-24 15:38 ` Johan Sandblom 2005-11-22 19:32 ` Taco Hoekwater ` (6 subsequent siblings) 10 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Mikael Persson @ 2005-11-22 17:15 UTC (permalink / raw) I could think of translating to swedish. Depends on how much work it is and about if it must be done before that or that day. I got pretty much to do at work... /Micke P On 11/21/05, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm going to clean up the beginners manual (at least the source code) so > i think this s a good moment to pick up the 'translation' thread > > So the question is: > > - what can go out > - what should go in > - what should be updated > > as well as: > > - who will participate (in translation) > - how to deal with localization (maybe dedicated language related chapters) > > Hans > _______________________________________________ > ntg-context mailing list > ntg-context@ntg.nl > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-22 17:15 ` Mikael Persson @ 2005-11-24 15:38 ` Johan Sandblom 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Johan Sandblom @ 2005-11-24 15:38 UTC (permalink / raw) I could help with this translation to Swedish, although I of course also have time constraints. Half the work and twice the fun! Johan 2005/11/22, Mikael Persson <mickep@gmail.com>: > I could think of translating to swedish. Depends on how much work it > is and about if it must be done before that or that day. I got pretty > much to do at work... > > /Micke P > > On 11/21/05, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm going to clean up the beginners manual (at least the source code) so > > i think this s a good moment to pick up the 'translation' thread > > > > So the question is: > > > > - what can go out > > - what should go in > > - what should be updated > > > > as well as: > > > > - who will participate (in translation) > > - how to deal with localization (maybe dedicated language related chapters) > > > > Hans > > _______________________________________________ > > ntg-context mailing list > > ntg-context@ntg.nl > > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > > > _______________________________________________ > ntg-context mailing list > ntg-context@ntg.nl > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > -- Johan Sandblom N8, MRC, Karolinska sjh t +46851776108 17176 Stockholm m +46735521477 Sweden "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite" - Bertrand Russell ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-21 22:03 Hans Hagen ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2005-11-22 17:15 ` Mikael Persson @ 2005-11-22 19:32 ` Taco Hoekwater 2005-11-22 20:51 ` Tobias Burnus 2005-11-23 20:15 ` Mojca Miklavec ` (5 subsequent siblings) 10 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2005-11-22 19:32 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi, Hans Hagen wrote: > Hi, > > I'm going to clean up the beginners manual (at least the source code) so > i think this s a good moment to pick up the 'translation' thread > > So the question is: Here is my 2 cents (numbers refer to the sections). > - what can go out \setupsectionblock (4) \indenting (34) twoletter language shortcuts (37) > - what should go in \mainlanguage endnotes environments arranging&papersize quotes"ations&narrower forms overlays typescripts regimes encodings? columnsets? natural tables? > - what should be updated special characters: explain e.g. \{ and \[ (3) rename Headers => Sectioning or Structure (5) perhaps TABLE gets to much attention (11) rename Definitions => Descriptions (15,16) comments should be explained earlier (37) modules (38) Cheers, Taco ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-22 19:32 ` Taco Hoekwater @ 2005-11-22 20:51 ` Tobias Burnus 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Tobias Burnus @ 2005-11-22 20:51 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi, Taco Hoekwater wrote: > special characters: explain e.g. \{ and \[ (3) That brings me to a thing I miss a lot. My LaTeX book had in the end a few pages with special characters, which is the main reason I still look in it. I'd like to see - preferably at the last pages of the manual so one finds them quickly in the printed version: - somewhere: -, --, ---, |-| etc. - somewhere: \/ (German example: Auf\/lage) to prevent the ligature - \dots - How to enter: $ & % # { } \ (esp. the "\") - text mode accents \'o \type{\'o} (maybe mention \oaccute as well?) \SS\ \type{\SS} and text mode symbols \copyright, \S, ... - mention that for different languages some additional methods exists (e.g. de "u -> ü, "s -> ß; or for Greek; or ...) - mathematical input Math accents Greek Symbols Maybe also AMS Symbols In short I mean basically the following tables from "\LATEX Kurzbeschreibung" (http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/lshort/german/l2kurz.pdf): - Page 19, Table 4 (accents and special letters) and Table 5 (symbols) - page 32ff, Table 6 (math accents), Table 7 (small Greek letters), Table 8 (capital Greek letters), Table 9 (further symbols), Table 10 ("big" operators), Table 11 (binary operators), Table 12 (relations), Table 13 (negated relations), Table 14 (arrows) and Table 15 (braces) Tobias ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-21 22:03 Hans Hagen ` (4 preceding siblings ...) 2005-11-22 19:32 ` Taco Hoekwater @ 2005-11-23 20:15 ` Mojca Miklavec 2005-11-24 22:39 ` Maurice Diamantini (dom) 2005-11-24 11:18 ` Otared Kavian ` (4 subsequent siblings) 10 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Mojca Miklavec @ 2005-11-23 20:15 UTC (permalink / raw) Hans Hagen wrote: > Hi, > > I'm going to clean up the beginners manual (at least the source code) so > i think this s a good moment to pick up the 'translation' thread > > So the question is: > > - what can go out > - what should go in > - what should be updated 31.2. \showbodyfont[cmr] 32.2. has to be rewritten I guess (write something about \enableregime[utf-8] and something about encodings) 38 (using modules): to be rewritten C (auxilary files): mention texutil --purge[all] What could be added: - Tables: Natural tables (already mentioned by Taco). I just realized that this is the only manual where the "usual" tables are actually explained. I was looking for the explanation in cont-eni before. - Bibliography - Slides: some basic example with \usemodule[pre-whatever] to show the user that making slides is no more difficult than making an A4 document - Metafun: some basic examples and a reference to the manual - XML: a basic example - mention XeTeX & Aleph somewhere (at least under section with fonts or lnguage-specific issues) > as well as: > > - who will participate (in translation) Slovenian translation is not rentable yet :( > - how to deal with localization (maybe dedicated language related chapters) Not a bad idea. Encodings, regimes, \mainlanguage, using different interface, French "active characters", quotations, Greek, Vietnamese, Russian, ... under the same hood. Mojca ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-23 20:15 ` Mojca Miklavec @ 2005-11-24 22:39 ` Maurice Diamantini (dom) 2005-11-25 9:47 ` Wolfgang Zillig 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Maurice Diamantini (dom) @ 2005-11-24 22:39 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Maurice Diamantini (dom) Le 23 nov. 05 à 21:15, Mojca Miklavec a écrit : > > What could be added: > - Tables: Natural tables (already mentioned by Taco). I just realized > that this is the only manual where the "usual" tables are actually > explained. I was looking for the explanation in cont-eni before. > - Bibliography > - Slides: some basic example with \usemodule[pre-whatever] to show the > user that making slides is no more difficult than making an A4 > document > - Metafun: some basic examples and a reference to the manual > - XML: a basic example I agree with the above. And for people comming from LaTeX, it would be nice to see also : - a basic exemple for creating html from ConTeXt, - some mathematics Maurice, ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-24 22:39 ` Maurice Diamantini (dom) @ 2005-11-25 9:47 ` Wolfgang Zillig 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Zillig @ 2005-11-25 9:47 UTC (permalink / raw) Maurice Diamantini (dom) schrieb: > > Le 23 nov. 05 à 21:15, Mojca Miklavec a écrit : > >> >> What could be added: >> - Tables: Natural tables (already mentioned by Taco). I just realized >> that this is the only manual where the "usual" tables are actually >> explained. I was looking for the explanation in cont-eni before. >> - Bibliography >> - Slides: some basic example with \usemodule[pre-whatever] to show the >> user that making slides is no more difficult than making an A4 >> document >> - Metafun: some basic examples and a reference to the manual >> - XML: a basic example > > > I agree with the above. > And for people comming from LaTeX, it would be nice to see also : > - a basic exemple for creating html from ConTeXt, I would argument that it is easyer to create ConTeXt from a propper XML/XHTML source! But as it is the beginner manual a reference to the XML manual should be enough. > - some mathematics not really a big problem, but you have the choice also to use MathML. Wolfgang ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-21 22:03 Hans Hagen ` (5 preceding siblings ...) 2005-11-23 20:15 ` Mojca Miklavec @ 2005-11-24 11:18 ` Otared Kavian 2005-11-24 22:29 ` Otared KAVIAN 2005-11-25 4:41 ` Xiao Jianfeng ` (3 subsequent siblings) 10 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Otared Kavian @ 2005-11-24 11:18 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi Hans, Thank you for your great work. Regarding the beginners manual your are going to update, I have two or three suggestions. To begin with, I think we should designate a volunteer group of people on this list to do some tasks in "parallel": 1) Since the installation of ConTeXt seems to be not so easy for everyone, we should have at least three subgroups of people experimenting, and then explaining, how to install and update ConTeXt on Linux, Windows, MacOS X. Once each subgroup has carried out the experimentation of the "How to..." instructions, they would send them to you so that you can include them in the Beginners Manual (abbreviated BM in the sequel...). It is important to include in each subgroup a "wizard" and an "amateur beginner": otherwise the "How to..." instructions may result in something not really usable by real beginners. For my part I am volunteering to be a (rather dumb...) beginner regarding installation on MacOS X, and its use with XeTeX. The same observation applies for the use of ConTeXt with non roman languages under various operating systems. 2) We should divide the BM in $n$ parts ($n \geq 2$... but maybe $n=10 $) and designate one or two individuals for each part to test ALL the codes and examples you give in the BM to make sure that they work fine with a "basic" install of ConTeXt. 3) Two great features of ConTeXt are its versatility regarding Metapost and presentations. In the BM these features should be presented in a transparent way, since most beginners would not have the patience or the technical knowledge of going through the source files. Best regards: OK On 21 nov. 2005, at 23:03, Hans Hagen wrote: > Hi, > > I'm going to clean up the beginners manual (at least the source > code) so i think this s a good moment to pick up the 'translation' > thread > > So the question is: > > - what can go out > - what should go in > - what should be updated > > as well as: > > - who will participate (in translation) > - how to deal with localization (maybe dedicated language related > chapters) > > Hans > _______________________________________________ > ntg-context mailing list > ntg-context@ntg.nl > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-24 11:18 ` Otared Kavian @ 2005-11-24 22:29 ` Otared KAVIAN 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Otared KAVIAN @ 2005-11-24 22:29 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi Hans, Thank you for your great work. Regarding the beginners manual your are going to update, I have two or three suggestions. To begin with, I think we should designate a volunteer group of people on this list to do some tasks in "parallel": 1) Since the installation of ConTeXt seems to be not so easy for everyone, we should have at least three subgroups of people experimenting, and then explaining, how to install and update ConTeXt on Linux, Windows, MacOS X. Once each subgroup has carried out the experimentation of the "How to..." instructions, they would send them to you so that you can include them in the Beginners Manual (abbreviated BM in the sequel...). It is important to include in each subgroup a "wizard" and an "amateur beginner": otherwise the "How to..." instructions may result in something not really usable by real beginners. For my part I am volunteering to be a (rather dumb...) beginner regarding installation on MacOS X, and its use with XeTeX. The same observation applies for the use of ConTeXt with non roman languages under various operating systems. 2) We should divide the BM in $n$ parts ($n \geq 2$... but maybe $n=10 $) and designate one or two individuals for each part to test ALL the codes and examples you give in the BM to make sure that they work fine with a "basic" install of ConTeXt. 3) Two great features of ConTeXt are its versatility regarding Metapost and presentations. In the BM these features should be presented in a transparent way, since most beginners would not have the patience or the technical knowledge of going through the source files. Best regards: OK On 21 nov. 2005, at 23:03, Hans Hagen wrote: > Hi, > > I'm going to clean up the beginners manual (at least the source > code) so i think this s a good moment to pick up the 'translation' > thread > > So the question is: > > - what can go out > - what should go in > - what should be updated > > as well as: > > - who will participate (in translation) > - how to deal with localization (maybe dedicated language related > chapters) > > Hans ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-21 22:03 Hans Hagen ` (6 preceding siblings ...) 2005-11-24 11:18 ` Otared Kavian @ 2005-11-25 4:41 ` Xiao Jianfeng 2005-11-25 13:10 ` Patrick Gundlach ` (2 subsequent siblings) 10 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Xiao Jianfeng @ 2005-11-25 4:41 UTC (permalink / raw) Hans Hagen wrote: > Hi, > > I'm going to clean up the beginners manual (at least the source code) > so i think this s a good moment to pick up the 'translation' thread > > So the question is: > > - what can go out > - what should go in > - what should be updated > > as well as: > > - who will participate (in translation) > - how to deal with localization (maybe dedicated language related > chapters) > > Hans > _______________________________________________ > ntg-context mailing list > ntg-context@ntg.nl > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > I recommend that the original manual in English be kept in the translation. I mean that we put the translation of each paragraph just after the English version, so people can refer to the original manual easily when they don't fully understand the translation. I've seen a Chinese translation of python manual in this manner, which I think if great for me. Just like this: [......paragraph one..............English version.................] [......paragraph one..............translated version..............] [......paragraph two..............English version.................] [......paragraph two..............translated version..............] ......... ......... [......the last paragraph ..............English version.................] [......the last paragraph ..............translated version..............] Hope my bad English didn't confuse anyone. Regards, xiaojf ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-21 22:03 Hans Hagen ` (7 preceding siblings ...) 2005-11-25 4:41 ` Xiao Jianfeng @ 2005-11-25 13:10 ` Patrick Gundlach 2005-11-25 14:05 ` Xiao Jianfeng 2005-11-28 11:46 ` Mari Voipio 10 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Patrick Gundlach @ 2005-11-25 13:10 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi, this is a follow-up to the first message... Are you (Hans) collecting the sugesstions from this thread or should they be wikified? Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-21 22:03 Hans Hagen ` (8 preceding siblings ...) 2005-11-25 13:10 ` Patrick Gundlach @ 2005-11-25 14:05 ` Xiao Jianfeng 2005-11-28 11:46 ` Mari Voipio 10 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Xiao Jianfeng @ 2005-11-25 14:05 UTC (permalink / raw) Hans Hagen wrote: > Hi, > > I'm going to clean up the beginners manual (at least the source code) > so i think this s a good moment to pick up the 'translation' thread > > So the question is: > > - what can go out > - what should go in > - what should be updated > > as well as: > > - who will participate (in translation) > - how to deal with localization (maybe dedicated language related > chapters) > > Hans > _______________________________________________ > ntg-context mailing list > ntg-context@ntg.nl > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > I can do some work with the Chinese translation if there is no other people going to take this job. One thing I have to mention is that I'm not good at ConTeXting, and I don't have too much time either, it will probably take a little long time for me to translate the whole manual. But I can promise that I will try my best to do a good job if I take the job. Regards, xiaojf ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: beginners manual 2005-11-21 22:03 Hans Hagen ` (9 preceding siblings ...) 2005-11-25 14:05 ` Xiao Jianfeng @ 2005-11-28 11:46 ` Mari Voipio 10 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Mari Voipio @ 2005-11-28 11:46 UTC (permalink / raw) Hans Hagen wrote: > I'm going to clean up the beginners manual Yippee! :-) Having read one printout to shreds I really appreciate this... > - what should go in As has been suggested here to an extent, there should be attachments (or separate smaller manuals) on how to install and update ConTeXt in different operating systems (Mac OS 10.4 was a breeze even for a new Mac user, Windows is a great pain in the butt every time; still running TeXLive 2004 ConTeXt on this machine because I can't afford to break anything). As I probably should do it for work anyway, I'm willing to write the part for MsWinConTeXt (for Win 2000/XP) as long as I get at least until the end of the year. I also suggest writing a separate set of instructions for those people who migrate from LaTeX (like my brother did) and for those who migrate from MSWord (like I did) or Apple's Pages (or similar word processing software). I strongly feel that the beginners' manual per se should be for ALL beginners and shouldn't refer to either Word or LaTeX. Again, as I probably have to write it at some point anyway, I'm willing to chip in for the MS Word part and I might even be able to write a draft for others to fill in with. > - what should be updated Tables is what would be really useful. This far I've only used tabulate and \table, but I have a faint idea that "natural tables" would be the real solution to my problems - but finding info on them has been so challenging that I've given up this far. I also personally feel that a totally different approach to the fonts chapter would make my life a lot easier. I'm sure this partly relates to my Windows background, but for example the term "font family" was totally alien to me when I started using ConTeXt. And of course, much of the first weeks with ConTeXt (in Windows) were overshadowed by the important question of "how to make the fonts and font switches work at all". I still don't understand the system at all, so even though I've successfully gotten a few of the TeXLive fonts to work, I always have to refer to my older ConTeXt documents to copy the code that has worked at least at some stage. [In Word, you switch the font of the Normal style from Times New Roman to Century Schoolbook with about three clicks of the mouse - in ConTeXt the same may be a three-hour or three-day operation, at least with my not-even-intermediate skills... I love ConTeXt, I hate fonts.] The order of things in the beginners' manual has often frustrated me as I feel that "same stuff" is split in different places all over manual. I have not dealt with math, but when I taught word processing with Word, these would be things that come up in the very, very beginning: - how to change the font (family, size, emphasis) - how to change the paragraph (line spacing, paragraph spacing, indents, alignment) - how to print preview i.e. see the document as laid out on paper (in ConTeXt this would be "how to compile and view; maybe put more detailed instructions into the ConTeXt in Unix/Linux/Mac/Windows attachment/manual and just refer to these) - how to change the margins [I had REAL problems with this in ConTeXt, the whole context is so different; but this should probably go into the "ConTeXt for word processor users" chapter] [- how to save and retrieve a document; not really an issue with ConTeXt, I suspect all users are this much computer literate] Next step is often additional text features: - headings (in Word, "header" is only top part of page, the section/chapter titles are called headings) - lists (i.e. itemize in ConTeXt) - page numbers (many Word users never use their header/footer for anything else!) - page breaking - hyphenation And, as many people migrate to ConTeXt when having to deal with large documents and/or math, the next step for many would probably be: - figures (i.e. graphics) - tables - footnotes - header & footer - formulae, units, math otherwise - special characters! - registers, references - interactivity? If ConTeXt comes nowadays with modules, those should probably get a more prominent position in the manual and obviously a lot more detailed explanation than the current one. If I've understood the concept correctly, the modules are comparable to Word templates, but this far the information has been so split that I haven't bothered to piece it together to actually even try to use a module, not to talk about making one (although that bit probably belongs to the big manual). > - who will participate (in translation) I can do Finnish, it shouldn't take that long once the English original is ready. A bunch of LaTeX stuff exists in Finnish and that should help with the terminology (should probably try to stick to existing stuff) and I can possibly enlist brother to review what I've done, if there're no other Finnish speakers on this list. I'll also be quite happy to proof the Swedish manual but as there are native speakers of Swedish on this list, I'd rather leave the actual translation work to them (especially when I use Swedish as spoken in Finland, which sometimes makes a difference). > - how to deal with localization (maybe dedicated language related chapters) Yes, definitely. Having now worked with translations of originally English ConTeXt document to German and Spanish I've had to look for answers for the following problems: - hyphenation (how to turn it on and how to prevent it) - labels in captions and references (how to switch language, how to adjust) - regiments - character sets (especially non-Latin stuff) - punctuation rules (for example one vs. two spaces after period) Sometimes I'd really, really love to have a list of what characters and languages ConTeXt is/is not capable of coping with, just a quick reference would help... A few thoughts from the Windows front, Mari ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2005-11-28 20:16 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 37+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2005-11-26 0:53 beginners manual Hans Hagen 2005-11-26 8:11 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-26 11:07 ` Taco Hoekwater 2005-11-26 12:57 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-27 23:29 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-28 7:27 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-28 10:27 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-26 19:46 ` David Arnold 2005-11-26 23:12 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-27 23:26 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-28 20:16 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-27 13:27 ` Vit Zyka 2005-11-27 22:34 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-28 10:03 ` Vit Zyka 2005-11-28 13:13 ` Mari Voipio 2005-11-28 13:56 ` Taco Hoekwater 2005-11-28 14:08 ` Wolfgang Zillig 2005-11-28 15:09 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-28 19:45 ` VnPenguin -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below -- 2005-11-21 22:03 Hans Hagen 2005-11-22 16:00 ` VnPenguin 2005-11-22 16:39 ` Olivier 2005-11-23 10:33 ` Hans Hagen 2005-11-22 16:56 ` Jose Antonio Rodriguez 2005-11-22 17:15 ` Mikael Persson 2005-11-24 15:38 ` Johan Sandblom 2005-11-22 19:32 ` Taco Hoekwater 2005-11-22 20:51 ` Tobias Burnus 2005-11-23 20:15 ` Mojca Miklavec 2005-11-24 22:39 ` Maurice Diamantini (dom) 2005-11-25 9:47 ` Wolfgang Zillig 2005-11-24 11:18 ` Otared Kavian 2005-11-24 22:29 ` Otared KAVIAN 2005-11-25 4:41 ` Xiao Jianfeng 2005-11-25 13:10 ` Patrick Gundlach 2005-11-25 14:05 ` Xiao Jianfeng 2005-11-28 11:46 ` Mari Voipio
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