Ajami script

Ajami script

[Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context]

I just read this:
https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/fallou-ngom-discovers-ajami-african-writing-system/

And now I’d like to know if ConTeXt is capable of typesetting this 
variant of Arabic. (Just out of curiosity, I can’t read any Arabic and 
don’t know any African language.)

Hraban
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Re: Ajami script

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 12/31/2022 3:06 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context wrote:
> I just read this:
> https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/fallou-ngom-discovers-ajami-african-writing-system/
> 
> And now I’d like to know if ConTeXt is capable of typesetting this 
> variant of Arabic. (Just out of curiosity, I can’t read any Arabic and 
> don’t know any African language.)
Afaiks that script has been known fro a while:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajami_script
http://www.currah.download/pages/ajamisenegal/index.html#police

so when there are proper fonts, as:

https://software.sil.org/scheherazade/
https://software.sil.org/harmattan/

it should be doable. The script is supported by unicode. I get the 
impression that the arabic scipt is mostly used getting the way the 
languages sounds on paper so vowels matter. There is mentioning of 
transliteration and so that might need some specific support. Nothing 
tex (context) can't do bnut only users and usage can prove that.

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Ajami script

[Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context]

Am 01.01.23 um 10:21 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context:
> On 12/31/2022 3:06 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context wrote:
>> I just read this:
>> https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/fallou-ngom-discovers-ajami-african-writing-system/
>>
>> And now I’d like to know if ConTeXt is capable of typesetting this 
>> variant of Arabic. (Just out of curiosity, I can’t read any Arabic and 
>> don’t know any African language.)
> Afaiks that script has been known fro a while:

I also thought I heard about it several years ago. The article makes it 
sound like news, that might be the perspective of the US scholars or a 
necessary means to get funded. But the oldest sources quoted in 
Wikipedia are from 1971 and 1982.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajami_script
> so when there are proper fonts, as:
> https://software.sil.org/scheherazade/
> https://software.sil.org/harmattan/

I don’t dare to ask about the Husayni fonts... ;)

> it should be doable. The script is supported by unicode. I get the 
> impression that the arabic scipt is mostly used getting the way the 
> languages sounds on paper so vowels matter. There is mentioning of 
> transliteration and so that might need some specific support. Nothing 
> tex (context) can't do but only users and usage can prove that.

Thank you for your insights!
Of course it’s a matter of use(r)s.

All the best for a happy new year!
Hraban

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Re: Ajami script

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 1/1/2023 11:03 AM, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context wrote:

> I also thought I heard about it several years ago. The article makes it 
> sound like news, that might be the perspective of the US scholars or a 
> necessary means to get funded. But the oldest sources quoted in 
> Wikipedia are from 1971 and 1982.

yes, kind of asking for funding to research if the earth is flat .. we 
can expect more such articles when these ai-chat-bots starts combine 
more old stuff into presented as new stuff

Hans

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Ajami script

[Alain Delmotte via ntg-context]

Le 1/01/2023 à 11:03, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context a 
écrit :
> Am 01.01.23 um 10:21 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context:
>> On 12/31/2022 3:06 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm via 
>> ntg-context wrote:
>>> I just read this:
>>> https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/fallou-ngom-discovers-ajami-african-writing-system/ 
>>>
>>>
>>> And now I’d like to know if ConTeXt is capable of 
>>> typesetting this variant of Arabic. (Just out of 
>>> curiosity, I can’t read any Arabic and don’t know any 
>>> African language.)
>> Afaiks that script has been known fro a while:
>
> I also thought I heard about it several years ago. The 
> article makes it sound like news, that might be the 
> perspective of the US scholars or a necessary means to get 
> funded. But the oldest sources quoted in Wikipedia are 
> from 1971 and 1982.

The arabic alphabet was also used from the XIth century to 
write swahili and some bantu languages around Tanzania and 
Kenya (Mozambic, Malawi, Uganda, east of Kongo, Sudan).

There are articles in Wikipedia.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabet_arabe_swahili
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swahili_language#Orthography

also: https://www.mustgo.com/worldlanguages/swahili/  see 
"writing"
https://omniglot.com/writing/swahili.htm

>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajami_script
>> so when there are proper fonts, as:
>> https://software.sil.org/scheherazade/
>> https://software.sil.org/harmattan/
>
> I don’t dare to ask about the Husayni fonts... ;)
>
>> it should be doable. The script is supported by unicode. 
>> I get the impression that the arabic scipt is mostly used 
>> getting the way the languages sounds on paper so vowels 
>> matter. There is mentioning of transliteration and so 
>> that might need some specific support. Nothing tex 
>> (context) can't do but only users and usage can prove that.
>
> Thank you for your insights!
> Of course it’s a matter of use(r)s.
>
> All the best for a happy new year!
> Hraban
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
>
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please 
> add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / 
> http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
>
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Re: Ajami script

[BPJ via ntg-context]

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It's a bit confusing because the word ʿajamī simply means anything written
in a non-Arabic language with Arabic script. Africa is certainly not the
only place where that term has been used. It is also the case that Arabic
script has been used to write West African languages for very many
centuries. There is no way that guy can have grown up there and not know
that so I don't understand what this article is up to. Possibly this is a
separate adaptation using its own conventions for writing the local
language. Probably just pop-sci sensationalism coupled with some rather
severe mis-/non-understanding on the part of the article author.

Den sön 1 jan. 2023 14:30Alain Delmotte via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
skrev:

> Le 1/01/2023 à 11:03, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context a
> écrit :
> > Am 01.01.23 um 10:21 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context:
> >> On 12/31/2022 3:06 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm via
> >> ntg-context wrote:
> >>> I just read this:
> >>>
> https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/fallou-ngom-discovers-ajami-african-writing-system/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> And now I’d like to know if ConTeXt is capable of
> >>> typesetting this variant of Arabic. (Just out of
> >>> curiosity, I can’t read any Arabic and don’t know any
> >>> African language.)
> >> Afaiks that script has been known fro a while:
> >
> > I also thought I heard about it several years ago. The
> > article makes it sound like news, that might be the
> > perspective of the US scholars or a necessary means to get
> > funded. But the oldest sources quoted in Wikipedia are
> > from 1971 and 1982.
>
> The arabic alphabet was also used from the XIth century to
> write swahili and some bantu languages around Tanzania and
> Kenya (Mozambic, Malawi, Uganda, east of Kongo, Sudan).
>
> There are articles in Wikipedia.
>
> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabet_arabe_swahili
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swahili_language#Orthography
>
> also: https://www.mustgo.com/worldlanguages/swahili/  see
> "writing"
> https://omniglot.com/writing/swahili.htm
>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajami_script
> >> so when there are proper fonts, as:
> >> https://software.sil.org/scheherazade/
> >> https://software.sil.org/harmattan/
> >
> > I don’t dare to ask about the Husayni fonts... ;)
> >
> >> it should be doable. The script is supported by unicode.
> >> I get the impression that the arabic scipt is mostly used
> >> getting the way the languages sounds on paper so vowels
> >> matter. There is mentioning of transliteration and so
> >> that might need some specific support. Nothing tex
> >> (context) can't do but only users and usage can prove that.
> >
> > Thank you for your insights!
> > Of course it’s a matter of use(r)s.
> >
> > All the best for a happy new year!
> > Hraban
> >
> >
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
> >
> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please
> > add an entry to the Wiki!
> >
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> > https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> > webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl /
> > http://context.aanhet.net
> > archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> > wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
> >
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
> >
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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Re: Ajami script

[George N. White III via ntg-context]

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On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 2:14 PM BPJ via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
wrote:

It's a bit confusing because the word ʿajamī simply means anything written
> in a non-Arabic language with Arabic script. Africa is certainly not the
> only place where that term has been used. It is also the case that Arabic
> script has been used to write West African languages for very many
> centuries. There is no way that guy can have grown up there and not know
> that so I don't understand what this article is up to. Possibly this is a
> separate adaptation using its own conventions for writing the local
> language. Probably just pop-sci sensationalism coupled with some rather
> severe mis-/non-understanding on the part of the article author.
>

I grew up in Northern New Mexico and now live in Canada, so know that
"educational" efforts
which suppressed non-European languages and writing systems were too often
imposed on
indigenous peoples in N. America.  It would not surprise me to learn that
some West African kids
were never exposed to "anything written in a non-Arabic language with
Arabic script".

-- 
George N. White III

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