* A new manual @ 2006-09-28 13:20 John R. Culleton 2006-09-28 14:42 ` Nikolai Weibull ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: John R. Culleton @ 2006-09-28 13:20 UTC (permalink / raw) What is needed now for greater acceptance of Context is not new features but a new manual, perhaps a multi volume set with a common index. The 2001 manual is great, but many of the features discussed daily here are not in it. One must chase around the wiki and the individual manuals like "details", and that is not satisfactory from the point of view of the new user. Most of us have memorized the locations of key information but newcomers have not. If a consolidated manual set were offered for sale there would be a lot of customers. Or an abridged version, something like the 1999 Excursion manual but expanded and updated, would be a possibility. -- John Culleton Able Indexing and Typesetting Precision typesetting (tm) at reasonable cost. Satisfaction guaranteed. http://wexfordpress.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: A new manual 2006-09-28 13:20 A new manual John R. Culleton @ 2006-09-28 14:42 ` Nikolai Weibull 2006-09-28 16:42 ` Marcus Vinicius Mesquita de So 2006-09-29 14:19 ` gnwiii 2006-10-02 17:09 ` fdu.xiaojf 2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Nikolai Weibull @ 2006-09-28 14:42 UTC (permalink / raw) On 9/28/06, John R. Culleton <john@wexfordpress.com> wrote: > What is needed now for greater acceptance of Context is not new > features but a new manual, perhaps a multi volume set with a > common index. > If a consolidated manual set were offered for sale there would be a > lot of customers. I'd buy it in an instant. With 38 hits on "LaTeX" in Computers & Internet on Amazon.com I'd say that ConTeXt is lagging behind in the published-book-about department. nikolai ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: A new manual 2006-09-28 14:42 ` Nikolai Weibull @ 2006-09-28 16:42 ` Marcus Vinicius Mesquita de So 2006-09-28 18:54 ` Alexander Lazic 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Marcus Vinicius Mesquita de So @ 2006-09-28 16:42 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 161 bytes --] I would buy it too... Marcus Vinicius --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 265 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 139 bytes --] _______________________________________________ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: A new manual 2006-09-28 16:42 ` Marcus Vinicius Mesquita de So @ 2006-09-28 18:54 ` Alexander Lazic 2006-09-29 7:09 ` Ricard Roca 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Alexander Lazic @ 2006-09-28 18:54 UTC (permalink / raw) On Don 28.09.2006 09:42, Marcus Vinicius Mesquita de So wrote: >I would buy it too... I too ;-)) Ragards Alex ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: A new manual 2006-09-28 18:54 ` Alexander Lazic @ 2006-09-29 7:09 ` Ricard Roca 0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Ricard Roca @ 2006-09-29 7:09 UTC (permalink / raw) And me too. No doubt! Ricard Roca ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: A new manual 2006-09-28 13:20 A new manual John R. Culleton 2006-09-28 14:42 ` Nikolai Weibull @ 2006-09-29 14:19 ` gnwiii 2006-09-29 17:00 ` John R. Culleton 2006-09-29 20:09 ` A new manual Hans Hagen 2006-10-02 17:09 ` fdu.xiaojf 2 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: gnwiii @ 2006-09-29 14:19 UTC (permalink / raw) On 9/28/06, John R. Culleton <john@wexfordpress.com> wrote: > What is needed now for greater acceptance of Context is not new > features but a new manual, perhaps a multi volume set with a > common index. The 2001 manual is great, but many of the features > discussed daily here are not in it. One must chase around the > wiki and the individual manuals like "details", and that is not > satisfactory from the point of view of the new user. Most of us > have memorized the locations of key information but newcomers > have not. I don't agree that lack of a current manual is a big problem for potential users of ConteXt. In my experience, the biggest problem is with the 3rd party tools (perl, ghostscript, ruby) on Win32 and legacy commercial unix (where ruby is not provided and the system perl will be a very old version). You can write simple LaTeX documents without working 3rd party tools (MikTeX-2.5 seems to provide ghostscript), but you need perl and ruby before you can format anything in ConTeXt. There should be some tools to check the functioning and versions of ghostscript, perl, and ruby. A VMWare player appliacance might be helpful for people with current Win32 systems (e.g., ample CPU, disk, and RAM). > If a consolidated manual set were offered for sale there would be a > lot of customers. Or an abridged version, something like the > 1999 Excursion manual but expanded and updated, would be a > possibility. Any printed manual will soon become stale. What is needed is an introductory manual for new users together with an ongoing process to provide current information. The wiki is a good start, but there needs to be more effort to ensure that the sources can be used as the definitive manual. The introductory manual should devote considerable space to explaining how to find current information in the wiki and or using the source files. -- George N. White III <aa056@chebucto.ns.ca> Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: A new manual 2006-09-29 14:19 ` gnwiii @ 2006-09-29 17:00 ` John R. Culleton 2006-10-29 12:57 ` Geoffrey Alan Washburn 2006-09-29 20:09 ` A new manual Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: John R. Culleton @ 2006-09-29 17:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Friday 29 September 2006 10:19, gnwiii@gmail.com wrote: > On 9/28/06, John R. Culleton <john@wexfordpress.com> wrote: > > What is needed now for greater acceptance of Context is not new > > features but a new manual, perhaps a multi volume set with a > > common index. The 2001 manual is great, but many of the features > > discussed daily here are not in it. One must chase around the > > wiki and the individual manuals like "details", and that is not > > satisfactory from the point of view of the new user. Most of us > > have memorized the locations of key information but newcomers > > have not. > > I don't agree that lack of a current manual is a big problem for > potential users of ConteXt. In my experience, the biggest problem is > with the 3rd party tools (perl, ghostscript, ruby) on Win32 and legacy > commercial unix (where ruby is not provided and the system perl will > be a very old version). > Interesting. There are minimal Context distros for each of the major platforms. Does the Win verson include the missing compilers? > You can write simple LaTeX documents without working 3rd party tools > (MikTeX-2.5 seems to provide ghostscript), but you need perl and ruby > before you can format anything in ConTeXt. There should be some tools > to check the functioning and versions of ghostscript, perl, and ruby. > A VMWare player appliacance might be helpful for people with current > Win32 systems (e.g., ample CPU, disk, and RAM). > > > If a consolidated manual set were offered for sale there would be a > > lot of customers. Or an abridged version, something like the > > 1999 Excursion manual but expanded and updated, would be a > > possibility. > > Any printed manual will soon become stale. What is needed is an > introductory manual > for new users together with an ongoing process to provide current > information. The wiki is a good start, but there needs to be more > effort to ensure that the sources can be used as the definitive > manual. The introductory manual should devote considerable space to > explaining how to find current information in the wiki and or using > the source files. My preferences in order are printed book, downloadable source, downloadable pdf and online anything. Information needs to be structured, indexed, portable, easily readable. -- John Culleton Able Indexing and Typesetting Precision typesetting (tm) at reasonable cost. Satisfaction guaranteed. http://wexfordpress.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: A new manual 2006-09-29 17:00 ` John R. Culleton @ 2006-10-29 12:57 ` Geoffrey Alan Washburn 2006-11-01 17:52 ` Printing ConTeXt books on Lulu? (Was: A new manual) Geoffrey Alan Washburn 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Geoffrey Alan Washburn @ 2006-10-29 12:57 UTC (permalink / raw) John R. Culleton wrote: > My preferences in order are printed book, downloadable source, > downloadable pdf and online anything. Information needs to be > structured, indexed, portable, easily readable. Speaking of printed manuals, it struck me the other day that an interim solution would be to use Lulu (www.lulu.com) to obtain printed copies of the existing manuals. However, it would probably be best if the folks at PRAGMA ADE were to handle this to avoid some of the copyright issues, and they might as well be the ones receiving any profits from the sales. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Printing ConTeXt books on Lulu? (Was: A new manual) 2006-10-29 12:57 ` Geoffrey Alan Washburn @ 2006-11-01 17:52 ` Geoffrey Alan Washburn 2006-11-01 18:19 ` Matthias Weber 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Geoffrey Alan Washburn @ 2006-11-01 17:52 UTC (permalink / raw) I figured I would try adjusting the subject to make the query a little more apparent. Would it be possible to purchase some of the books on ConTeXt via Lulu? Geoffrey Alan Washburn wrote: > John R. Culleton wrote: > >> My preferences in order are printed book, downloadable source, >> downloadable pdf and online anything. Information needs to be >> structured, indexed, portable, easily readable. > > Speaking of printed manuals, it struck me the other day that an interim > solution would be to use Lulu (www.lulu.com) to obtain printed copies of > the existing manuals. However, it would probably be best if the folks > at PRAGMA ADE were to handle this to avoid some of the copyright issues, > and they might as well be the ones receiving any profits from the sales. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: Printing ConTeXt books on Lulu? (Was: A new manual) 2006-11-01 17:52 ` Printing ConTeXt books on Lulu? (Was: A new manual) Geoffrey Alan Washburn @ 2006-11-01 18:19 ` Matthias Weber 2006-11-01 19:07 ` Geoffrey Alan Washburn 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Matthias Weber @ 2006-11-01 18:19 UTC (permalink / raw) Not unless the copyright holders submit the material to Lulu. In short, Lulu.com is a print-on-demand publisher with no costs involved for the author: He or she uploads a 'book', specifies bindings and his/her royalties, and if someone purchases the book, it is printed and send to the person. A percentage o the royalties goes to Lulu. In particular, one can choose to publish a book w/o royalties, then it will only cost the printing expenses. Downloads just cost the royalties, if permitted. Finally, the author can choose among a range of copyright options. Matthias PS: On my personal wishlist, the #1 item is an updated version of con- eni. I'd prefer a downloadable PDF, but I'd also buy a printed version. On Nov 1, 2006, at 12:52 PM, Geoffrey Alan Washburn wrote: > > I figured I would try adjusting the subject to make the query a > little > more apparent. Would it be possible to purchase some of the books on > ConTeXt via Lulu? > > Geoffrey Alan Washburn wrote: >> John R. Culleton wrote: >> >>> My preferences in order are printed book, downloadable source, >>> downloadable pdf and online anything. Information needs to be >>> structured, indexed, portable, easily readable. >> >> Speaking of printed manuals, it struck me the other day that an >> interim >> solution would be to use Lulu (www.lulu.com) to obtain printed >> copies of >> the existing manuals. However, it would probably be best if the >> folks >> at PRAGMA ADE were to handle this to avoid some of the copyright >> issues, >> and they might as well be the ones receiving any profits from the >> sales. > > _______________________________________________ > ntg-context mailing list > ntg-context@ntg.nl > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: Printing ConTeXt books on Lulu? (Was: A new manual) 2006-11-01 18:19 ` Matthias Weber @ 2006-11-01 19:07 ` Geoffrey Alan Washburn 0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Geoffrey Alan Washburn @ 2006-11-01 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw) Matthias Weber wrote: > Not unless the copyright holders submit the material to Lulu. That wasn't my question. > > In short, Lulu.com is a print-on-demand publisher with no costs > involved for the > author: He or she uploads a 'book', specifies bindings and his/her > royalties, > and if someone purchases the book, it is printed and send to the person. > A percentage o the royalties goes to Lulu. In particular, one can > choose to publish > a book w/o royalties, then it will only cost the printing expenses. > Downloads just cost the > royalties, if permitted. Finally, the author can choose among a range > of copyright options. That would be why I said "However, it would probably be best if the folks at PRAGMA ADE were to handle this to avoid some of the copyright issues, and they might as well be the ones receiving any profits from the sales." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: A new manual 2006-09-29 14:19 ` gnwiii 2006-09-29 17:00 ` John R. Culleton @ 2006-09-29 20:09 ` Hans Hagen 2006-10-04 23:21 ` Aditya Mahajan 1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2006-09-29 20:09 UTC (permalink / raw) gnwiii@gmail.com wrote: > > I don't agree that lack of a current manual is a big problem for > potential users of ConteXt. In my experience, the biggest problem is > with the 3rd party tools (perl, ghostscript, ruby) on Win32 and legacy > commercial unix (where ruby is not provided and the system perl will > be a very old version). > actually, one could run context using "pdftex --fmt ...... " but it's less convenient; technically i could generate most of the tuo file directly (although index sorting always has to rely on an external prog) some two pass data (cross ref etc) can be loaded before an aux file is written, but toc info cannot, and tex itself cannot rename a temp file afterwards; because context can create tocs at any level any time, this means that there will always be a need for an separate read and write file (actuallym this is also true for more two pass data since some data structures may be defined anywhere in teh document which also leads to async loading) in luatex, i will probably write the index sorter in lua as well as support a different two pass info model as well which means that in principle one could provide an embedded kind of texexec funtionality; of course multiple runs still have to be managed by some external script then but this can be simple since tex itself can signal the need for that don't be surprised if contex mkiv provides a different user experience Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: A new manual 2006-09-29 20:09 ` A new manual Hans Hagen @ 2006-10-04 23:21 ` Aditya Mahajan 2006-10-05 6:51 ` Taco Hoekwater 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2006-10-04 23:21 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 29 Sep 2006, Hans Hagen wrote: > gnwiii@gmail.com wrote: >> >> I don't agree that lack of a current manual is a big problem for >> potential users of ConteXt. In my experience, the biggest problem is >> with the 3rd party tools (perl, ghostscript, ruby) on Win32 and legacy >> commercial unix (where ruby is not provided and the system perl will >> be a very old version). >> > actually, one could run context using "pdftex --fmt ...... " but it's > less convenient; > > technically i could generate most of the tuo file directly (although > index sorting always has to rely on an external prog) > > some two pass data (cross ref etc) can be loaded before an aux file is > written, but toc info cannot, and tex itself cannot rename a temp file > afterwards; because context can create tocs at any level any time, this > means that there will always be a need for an separate read and write > file (actuallym this is also true for more two pass data since some data > structures may be defined anywhere in teh document which also leads to > async loading) > > in luatex, i will probably write the index sorter in lua as well as > support a different two pass info model as well which means that in > principle one could provide an embedded kind of texexec funtionality; of > course multiple runs still have to be managed by some external script > then but this can be simple since tex itself can signal the need for that > Does this mean that in future (distant future) it will be possible to simple pass cont-en.fmt file along with the source file and write %&cont-en in the tex file, and someone just having plain tex can run tex filename (possibly multiple times) to get the output? If so, it may make things like submissions to some journals and online archives like arxiv very easy. Aditya ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: A new manual 2006-10-04 23:21 ` Aditya Mahajan @ 2006-10-05 6:51 ` Taco Hoekwater 0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2006-10-05 6:51 UTC (permalink / raw) Aditya Mahajan wrote: > > Does this mean that in future (distant future) it will be possible to > simple pass cont-en.fmt file along with the source file and write > > %&cont-en > > in the tex file, and someone just having plain tex can run > > tex filename (possibly multiple times) to get the output? Basically yes. Assuming they have luatex installed. Taco ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: A new manual 2006-09-28 13:20 A new manual John R. Culleton 2006-09-28 14:42 ` Nikolai Weibull 2006-09-29 14:19 ` gnwiii @ 2006-10-02 17:09 ` fdu.xiaojf 2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: fdu.xiaojf @ 2006-10-02 17:09 UTC (permalink / raw) John R. Culleton wrote: > What is needed now for greater acceptance of Context is not new > features but a new manual, perhaps a multi volume set with a > common index. The 2001 manual is great, but many of the features > discussed daily here are not in it. One must chase around the > wiki and the individual manuals like "details", and that is not > satisfactory from the point of view of the new user. Most of us > have memorized the locations of key information but newcomers > have not. > > If a consolidated manual set were offered for sale there would be a > lot of customers. Or an abridged version, something like the > 1999 Excursion manual but expanded and updated, would be a > possibility. > > I agree. A better and up-to-date manual will surely help the promotion of ConTeXt, because it make it easier to know it, learn it, use it and fall in love with it, not just for new users, but also for all non-expert people. Regards, xiaojf ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2006-11-01 19:07 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2006-09-28 13:20 A new manual John R. Culleton 2006-09-28 14:42 ` Nikolai Weibull 2006-09-28 16:42 ` Marcus Vinicius Mesquita de So 2006-09-28 18:54 ` Alexander Lazic 2006-09-29 7:09 ` Ricard Roca 2006-09-29 14:19 ` gnwiii 2006-09-29 17:00 ` John R. Culleton 2006-10-29 12:57 ` Geoffrey Alan Washburn 2006-11-01 17:52 ` Printing ConTeXt books on Lulu? (Was: A new manual) Geoffrey Alan Washburn 2006-11-01 18:19 ` Matthias Weber 2006-11-01 19:07 ` Geoffrey Alan Washburn 2006-09-29 20:09 ` A new manual Hans Hagen 2006-10-04 23:21 ` Aditya Mahajan 2006-10-05 6:51 ` Taco Hoekwater 2006-10-02 17:09 ` fdu.xiaojf
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