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* Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
@ 2008-11-03  7:24 Marcin Borkowski
  2008-11-03  7:40 ` Marcin Borkowski
  2008-11-03  7:42 ` Wolfgang Schuster
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-03  7:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users

Hi,

I did everything as wiki says, and after "context test-06" I get

/usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/mtxrun:9016: attempt to index
global 'today' (a function value)

What might be wrong?

(I also chmod'ed all things in some .../script directories to executables.)

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

Kim jest ta, co wyłania się z pustyni,
Idzie wsparta na swoim Oblubieńcu?
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-03  7:24 Problem with MkIV on texlive2008 Marcin Borkowski
@ 2008-11-03  7:40 ` Marcin Borkowski
  2008-11-03  7:42 ` Wolfgang Schuster
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-03  7:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users

Dnia Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 08:24:22AM +0100, Marcin Borkowski napisał(a):
> Hi,
> 
> I did everything as wiki says, and after "context test-06" I get
> 
> /usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/mtxrun:9016: attempt to index
> global 'today' (a function value)
> 
> What might be wrong?
> 
> (I also chmod'ed all things in some .../script directories to executables.)
> 
> Greets

I forgot to include one more line of output: altogether it says

MtxRun | unknown script 'context.lua' or 'mtx-context.lua'

/usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/mtxrun:9016: attempt to index
global 'today' (a function value)

Please help...

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

It is impossible to split a cube into two cubes, a fourth power into
two fourth powers and so on.  I've found a remarkable proof of this
fact, but unfortunately it's too long to fit into the signature.
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-03  7:24 Problem with MkIV on texlive2008 Marcin Borkowski
  2008-11-03  7:40 ` Marcin Borkowski
@ 2008-11-03  7:42 ` Wolfgang Schuster
  2008-11-03  7:53   ` Marcin Borkowski
  2008-11-03  7:57   ` Otared Kavian
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2008-11-03  7:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


Am 03.11.2008 um 08:24 schrieb Marcin Borkowski:

> Hi,
>
> I did everything as wiki says, and after "context test-06" I get
>
> /usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/mtxrun:9016: attempt to index
> global 'today' (a function value)
>
> What might be wrong?
>
> (I also chmod'ed all things in some .../script directories to  
> executables.)

mtxrun --selfupdate
luatools --selfupdate

If the problem still remains send us a example.

Wolfgang

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-03  7:42 ` Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2008-11-03  7:53   ` Marcin Borkowski
  2008-11-03  8:50     ` Taco Hoekwater
                       ` (2 more replies)
  2008-11-03  7:57   ` Otared Kavian
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-03  7:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

Dnia Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 08:42:04AM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisał(a):

Thanks, but...

> mtxrun --selfupdate
root@marcin-desktop:~# mtxrun --selfupdate
MtxRun | to be replaced old script
/usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/mtxrun
MtxRun | checking new script
/usr/local/texlive/2008/texmf-dist/scripts/context/lua/mtxrun.lua
MtxRun | old script content replaced by new content

/usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/mtxrun:9016: attempt to index
global 'today' (a function value)

> luatools --selfupdate
root@marcin-desktop:~# luatools --selfupdate
LuaTools | to be replaced old script
/usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/luatools
LuaTools | checking new script
/usr/local/texlive/2008/texmf-dist/scripts/context/lua/luatools.lua
LuaTools | old script content replaced by new content
LuaTools | 
LuaTools | runtime: 0.240 seconds

> If the problem still remains send us a example.

marcin@marcin-desktop:~/works/marcin/context$ context whatever
MtxRun | unknown script 'context.lua' or 'mtx-context.lua'

/usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/mtxrun:9016: attempt to index
global 'today' (a function value)

(It seems that it doesn't matter whether whatever.tex exists or not.)

> Wolfgang

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

 _   _   _
/ \ / \ / \  OSTRE SŁOWA
\_/ \_/ \_/  OSTRA MUZYKA
/ \ / \ / \  OSTRA PŁYTA
\_/ \_/ \_/  2 Tm 2,3
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-03  7:42 ` Wolfgang Schuster
  2008-11-03  7:53   ` Marcin Borkowski
@ 2008-11-03  7:57   ` Otared Kavian
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Otared Kavian @ 2008-11-03  7:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

Hi Wolfgang,

I experience the same things as Marcin with ConTeXt Minimals from the  
Garden.
Doing
	mtxrun --selfupdate
or
	luatools --selfupdate
does not solve the problem.
My minimal file can be:
\starttext
This file has been typeset
on \currentdate{}
at \currenttime,
with
\doifmodeelse{mkiv}
	{mkiv,
	LuaTeX revision \luatexrevision,
	(LuaTeX date stamp \luatexdatestamp),
	using the command:
	\type{context basic-test.tex}}
	{mkii,
	using the command:
	\type{texexec basic-test.tex}},
ConTeXt version \contextversion.
\stoptext

The file typesets yielding a correct PDF but I get
	...-10.4/context-minimal/tex/texmf-osx-intel/bin/mtxrun:9016: attempt  
to index global 'today' (a function value)

Here is the output when saying mtxrun --selfupdate:
Setting "/Volumes/OK-10.4/context-minimal/tex" as TEXROOT.
MacKavian:~ kavian$ mtxrun --selfupdate
MtxRun | to be replaced old script /Volumes/OK-10.4/context-minimal/ 
tex/texmf-osx-intel/bin/mtxrun
MtxRun | checking new script /Volumes/OK-10.4/context-minimal/tex/ 
texmf-context/scripts/context/lua/mtxrun.lua
MtxRun | old script content replaced by new content

...-10.4/context-minimal/tex/texmf-osx-intel/bin/mtxrun:9016: attempt  
to index global 'today' (a function value)
MacKavian:~ kavian$ luatools --selfupdate
LuaTools | to be replaced old script /Volumes/OK-10.4/context-minimal/ 
tex/texmf-osx-intel/bin/luatools
LuaTools | checking new script /Volumes/OK-10.4/context-minimal/tex/ 
texmf-context/scripts/context/lua/luatools.lua
LuaTools | old script content replaced by new content
LuaTools |
LuaTools | runtime: 0.084 seconds

MacKavian:~ kavian$ mtxrun --selfupdate
MtxRun | to be replaced old script /Volumes/OK-10.4/context-minimal/ 
tex/texmf-osx-intel/bin/mtxrun
MtxRun | checking new script /Volumes/OK-10.4/context-minimal/tex/ 
texmf-context/scripts/context/lua/mtxrun.lua
MtxRun | old script content replaced by new content

...-10.4/context-minimal/tex/texmf-osx-intel/bin/mtxrun:9016: attempt  
to index global 'today' (a function value)
MacKavian:~ kavian$

Best regards: OK

On 3 nov. 08, at 08:42, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

>
> Am 03.11.2008 um 08:24 schrieb Marcin Borkowski:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I did everything as wiki says, and after "context test-06" I get
>>
>> /usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/mtxrun:9016: attempt to index
>> global 'today' (a function value)
>>
>> What might be wrong?
>>
>> (I also chmod'ed all things in some .../script directories to
>> executables.)
>
> mtxrun --selfupdate
> luatools --selfupdate
>
> If the problem still remains send us a example.
>
> Wolfgang
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Otared Kavian
Département de Mathématiques
Université de Versailles Saint-Quentin
Bâtiment Fermat
45 aveue des Etats Unis
78035 Versailles cedex

Téléphone: +33 1 39 25 46 42
Secrétariat: +33 1 39 25 46 44
Secrétariat: +33 1 39 25 46 46

e-mail: Otared.Kavian@math.uvsq.fr



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-03  7:53   ` Marcin Borkowski
@ 2008-11-03  8:50     ` Taco Hoekwater
  2008-11-03  9:52       ` luigi scarso
  2008-11-03  9:21     ` Hans Hagen
  2008-11-03 22:26     ` Marcin Borkowski
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2008-11-03  8:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users



Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> 
> /usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/mtxrun:9016: attempt to index
> global 'today' (a function value)

There is a small, but fatal bug in the script. You have to open the
mtxrun script in a text editor and fix line 9016 so it says:

   today = os.date('*t')

Best wishes,
Taco
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-03  7:53   ` Marcin Borkowski
  2008-11-03  8:50     ` Taco Hoekwater
@ 2008-11-03  9:21     ` Hans Hagen
  2008-11-03 22:26     ` Marcin Borkowski
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2008-11-03  9:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> Dnia Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 08:42:04AM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisał(a):
> 
> Thanks, but...
> 
>> mtxrun --selfupdate
> root@marcin-desktop:~# mtxrun --selfupdate
> MtxRun | to be replaced old script
> /usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/mtxrun
> MtxRun | checking new script
> /usr/local/texlive/2008/texmf-dist/scripts/context/lua/mtxrun.lua
> MtxRun | old script content replaced by new content
> 
> /usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/mtxrun:9016: attempt to index
> global 'today' (a function value)

no 'today' in my version here; i'l regenerated mtxrun and luatools and 
push a beta (which will then end up in the minimals)

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-03  8:50     ` Taco Hoekwater
@ 2008-11-03  9:52       ` luigi scarso
  2008-11-03  9:59         ` Taco Hoekwater
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso @ 2008-11-03  9:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


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On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> wrote:

>
>
> Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> >
> > /usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/mtxrun:9016: attempt to index
> > global 'today' (a function value)
>
> There is a small, but fatal bug in the script. You have to open the
> mtxrun script in a text editor and fix line 9016 so it says:
>
>   today = os.date('*t')
>
too slow....
read Egg does not work in MKIV

-- 
luigi

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-03  9:52       ` luigi scarso
@ 2008-11-03  9:59         ` Taco Hoekwater
  2008-11-03 10:11           ` luigi scarso
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater @ 2008-11-03  9:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users



luigi scarso wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com 
> <mailto:taco@elvenkind.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>      >
>      > /usr/local/texlive/2008/bin/i386-linux/mtxrun:9016: attempt to index
>      > global 'today' (a function value)
> 
>     There is a small, but fatal bug in the script. You have to open the
>     mtxrun script in a text editor and fix line 9016 so it says:
> 
>       today = os.date('*t')
> 
> too slow....
> read Egg does not work in MKIV

sorry missed that (I really should go back to bed ...)


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-03  9:59         ` Taco Hoekwater
@ 2008-11-03 10:11           ` luigi scarso
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso @ 2008-11-03 10:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


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>
>
> sorry missed that (I really should go back to bed ...)
>
ah, as we said here
"No Martini? No party!"


-- 
luigi

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-03  7:53   ` Marcin Borkowski
  2008-11-03  8:50     ` Taco Hoekwater
  2008-11-03  9:21     ` Hans Hagen
@ 2008-11-03 22:26     ` Marcin Borkowski
  2008-11-03 23:12       ` Marcin Borkowski
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-03 22:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

Dnia Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 08:53:48AM +0100, Marcin Borkowski napisa&#322;(a):
> Dnia Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 08:42:04AM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisa&#322;(a):
> 
> Thanks, but...
> 
> marcin@marcin-desktop:~/works/marcin/context$ context whatever
> MtxRun | unknown script 'context.lua' or 'mtx-context.lua'

Again and again.

What might have gone wrong?

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

888
___________________________________________________________________________________
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-03 22:26     ` Marcin Borkowski
@ 2008-11-03 23:12       ` Marcin Borkowski
  2008-11-04  0:00         ` luigi scarso
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-03 23:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

Dnia Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 11:26:51PM +0100, Marcin Borkowski napisa&#322;(a):
> Dnia Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 08:53:48AM +0100, Marcin Borkowski napisa&#322;(a):
> > Dnia Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 08:42:04AM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster napisa&#322;(a):
> > 
> > Thanks, but...
> > 
> > marcin@marcin-desktop:~/works/marcin/context$ context whatever
> > MtxRun | unknown script 'context.lua' or 'mtx-context.lua'
> 
> Again and again.
> 
> What might have gone wrong?

OK, now it seems to work: I run luatools --generate and context --make
as a user, not root.  Why does it work?

And one more question:

texexec whatever.tex

and

context whatever.tex

yield *different* pdf files: the MkIV one renders very poorly in xpdf
(evince is ok).  The properties dialog of evince says something about
Type 1C (CID) fonts.

Doues it mean I have to throw xpdf out?  It would be a pity, since it is
much more comfortable than evince...

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

This program is written in Perl.  While stronger people find reading
Perl code character-building, it should not be shown to people in their
formative years.  The author will not accept any responsibility for any
moral grief caused.

	    (The McKornik Jr. Public License)
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-03 23:12       ` Marcin Borkowski
@ 2008-11-04  0:00         ` luigi scarso
  2008-11-04  6:19           ` Marcin Borkowski
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso @ 2008-11-04  0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


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>
> And one more question:
>
> texexec whatever.tex
>
try
$> pdffonts  whatever.pdf

>
> and
>
> context whatever.tex
>
again, try now
$> pdffonts  whatever.pdf

Are the same fonts ?

\starttext

\input knuth

\stoptext

with texexec mkii the log says
...
48i,17n,52p,246b,511s stack positions out of
10000i,500n,10000p,4000000b,50000s
{/opt/luatex/minimals/tex/texmf/fonts/enc/dvips/lm/lm-ec.enc}</opt/luatex/min
imals/tex/texmf/fonts/type1/public/lm/lmr12.pfb>



with luatex mkiv
....
mkiv lua stats : loaded fonts              - lmex10:tfm lmmi12:tfm lmmi7:tfm
lmmi9:tfm lmroman10-bolditalic:otf lmroman10-italic:otf lmroman12-bold:otf
lmroman12-italic:otf lmroman12-regular:otf lmroman7-bold:otf
lmroman7-regular:otf lmroman9-bold:otf lmroman9-italic:otf
lmroman9-regular:otf lmromancaps10-regular:otf lmromanslant10-bold:otf
lmromanslant10-regular:otf lmromanslant12-regular:otf
lmromanslant9-regular:otf lmsy10:tfm lmsy7:tfm lmsy9:tfm msam10:tfm
msam7:tfm msbm10:tfm msbm7:tfm rm-lmr12:tfm rm-lmr7:tfm rm-lmr9:tfm





-- 
luigi

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___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-04  0:00         ` luigi scarso
@ 2008-11-04  6:19           ` Marcin Borkowski
  2008-11-04  8:30             ` luigi scarso
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-04  6:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users

Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 01:00:51AM +0100, luigi scarso napisa&#322;(a):
> >
> > And one more question:
> >
> > texexec whatever.tex
> >
> try
> $> pdffonts  whatever.pdf

So I'm doing:

$ cat test-07.tex
\starttext                                                             
Hello world!
\stoptext

$ texexec test-07
(...)
TeXExec | runtime: 3.723635

$ pdffonts test-07.pdf 
name                                 type              emb sub uni
object ID
------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- ---
---------
KBKNLC+LMRoman12-Regular             Type 1            yes yes yes
4  0

$ context test-07
(...)
MtxRun | total runtime: 11.478

$ pdffonts test-07.pdf 
name                                 type              emb sub uni
object ID
------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- ---
---------
AIGPIG+LMRoman12-Regular             CID Type 0C       yes yes yes
4  0

Any ideas what to do so that it could look better in xpdf?

Greets

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

- Pod jednym przynajmniej względem wcale się nie zmieniłeś -
powiedział Aragorn.  - Mówisz zagadkami!
- Co takiego?  Zagadki?  - odparł Gandalf.  - Nie!  Po prostu mówiłem
głośno do siebie.  Prastary zwyczaj kazał zwracać się do
najmądrzejszej osoby wśród obecnych, bo długie wyjaśnienia, których by
trzeba udzielać młodym, są nudne.

				J. R. R. Tolkien
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Problem with MkIV on texlive2008
  2008-11-04  6:19           ` Marcin Borkowski
@ 2008-11-04  8:30             ` luigi scarso
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso @ 2008-11-04  8:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1145 bytes --]

2008/11/4 Marcin Borkowski <mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl>

> Dnia Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 01:00:51AM +0100, luigi scarso napisa&#322;(a):
> > >
> > > And one more question:
> > >
> > > texexec whatever.tex
> > >
> > try
> > $> pdffonts  whatever.pdf
>
> So I'm doing:
>
> $ cat test-07.tex
> \starttext
> Hello world!
> \stoptext
>
> $ texexec test-07
> (...)
> TeXExec | runtime: 3.723635
>
> $ pdffonts test-07.pdf
> name                                 type              emb sub uni
> object ID
> ------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- ---
> ---------
> KBKNLC+LMRoman12-Regular             Type 1            yes yes yes
> 4  0
>
> $ context test-07
> (...)
> MtxRun | total runtime: 11.478
>
> $ pdffonts test-07.pdf
> name                                 type              emb sub uni
> object ID
> ------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- ---
> ---------
> AIGPIG+LMRoman12-Regular             CID Type 0C       yes yes yes
> 4  0
>
> Any ideas what to do so that it could look better in xpdf?
>
On my logs, I see that mkii uses type1
while  mkiv uses otf.

Maybe this is the difference.
-- 
luigi

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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2008-11-04  8:30 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2008-11-03  7:24 Problem with MkIV on texlive2008 Marcin Borkowski
2008-11-03  7:40 ` Marcin Borkowski
2008-11-03  7:42 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2008-11-03  7:53   ` Marcin Borkowski
2008-11-03  8:50     ` Taco Hoekwater
2008-11-03  9:52       ` luigi scarso
2008-11-03  9:59         ` Taco Hoekwater
2008-11-03 10:11           ` luigi scarso
2008-11-03  9:21     ` Hans Hagen
2008-11-03 22:26     ` Marcin Borkowski
2008-11-03 23:12       ` Marcin Borkowski
2008-11-04  0:00         ` luigi scarso
2008-11-04  6:19           ` Marcin Borkowski
2008-11-04  8:30             ` luigi scarso
2008-11-03  7:57   ` Otared Kavian

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