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Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Unable to switch math fonts Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 17:57:25 +0200 Message-ID: References: <13b3e6da-c3c1-4243-dab5-3cca95c5c730@gmx.es> <20170721123311.gkughowlud2sslj5@odessa> <34c13d72-2354-159a-9acd-282b151158c7@gmail.com> <61c060e8-4ffb-b472-df66-390492a8c8fd@gmail.com> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4597907958134355011==" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1500998300 694 195.159.176.226 (25 Jul 2017 15:58:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 15:58:20 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 To: ntg-context@ntg.nl Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Tue Jul 25 17:58:14 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from zapf.boekplan.nl ([5.39.185.232] helo=zapf.ntg.nl) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1da2Dp-00080m-41 for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 17:58:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0E5EFE0839; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 17:57:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fC0EPuaXGFck; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 17:57:52 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1FC8FE083C; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 17:57:52 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1876FE083A for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 17:57:52 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g9ta7yQjSJzZ for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 17:57:51 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-wr0-f178.google.com (mail-wr0-f178.google.com [209.85.128.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99475FE0839 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 17:57:41 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by mail-wr0-f178.google.com with SMTP id 12so121117428wrb.1 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 08:57:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=dUT5gRFNIEcR3s1arKxfbqxDWke2fjlGsHZqsyBcaaY=; b=oJIdJBFL2AqEdRCgWpfsY8RgFA+h87DeiIsJoyHjoISieMEF/rA8p1ZP9YJlYdKmpz Y2cKgEodYpjyPdlnzi6NtJdDe35y4uXUscLTUrawtg8XcmJx9yi+FYheLoDaeHClfMLT lM6pcsZWgOpoV9qFAwPafkdrOIbrEw+HYoPfJTiMoREx4HlN1EuUZVTPMQA3uhlucTAM lXsL+52wivXVW6y9dDmw1qitdVPOHodA5KKrc9W84hfnapZE17qayTOfqtJIMTXFyK+H 7oye0jet8TOV12/b5wp5YNbY6DLQ8dljbLbQKVOQNve+A8451qShjsgg0AtYdd05rWNO T3Vg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=dUT5gRFNIEcR3s1arKxfbqxDWke2fjlGsHZqsyBcaaY=; b=LhvK1fKWgQXlI2SOLxuThIUpEhuhtIBwOpvyrx8pygEyd8MMEAdm9Q6ujU7iA444Kt x5+tCFOeQJ7UcUsuqv2M3IRxWR3T5IzrgYyaRTPjp5zTV/IXWlgrUAZN+N/GJrNaJflq ZVYJElH8mx9Cjaj/8O/nf4E5RXjqcczOmNSuMFE/gLaUiSL3zDEV8qFio0B3+angqGvx JAU9cqrHCbRwGCNCyudbdSnx4caznEFSdGTlTJDlSfDmryfikBu+j9WvuHJiCj6tSfJU v8yPmNrTI+CtgsC+TwAMoTgR0W3GgbHikK+S5U58nH/Tg/Y5tBsNeEtcXmR0Z0IfsTm/ 8uaw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110/1JLg7G8dksSnXEpX53NiOp4TOCjA1JbgAYo56ltuUoGXgEi3 sImM6ZsVBRKnPs54QIs= X-Received: by 10.223.170.140 with SMTP id h12mr5714549wrc.79.1500998260158; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 08:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.2] (port-92-201-29-140.dynamic.qsc.de. [92.201.29.140]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c47sm10794053wrc.7.2017.07.25.08.57.25 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 25 Jul 2017 08:57:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-GB X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: "ntg-context" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:98523 Archived-At: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============4597907958134355011== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3AB38C5F30CEE0BF40405299" Content-Language: en-GB This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3AB38C5F30CEE0BF40405299 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for your response Hans. On 25/07/2017 00:12, Hans Hagen wrote: > On 7/24/2017 11:41 PM, Sebastian L. wrote: >> Yes it helps, thanks; it explains why there was so little response to >> this. ;) >> After some search I found regular style pictures of it. I was sure, >> that it was italic as standard, because that's what "modern" >> suggests: compability for current regulations (i.e. regular >> constants, italic variables) as well as an attractive style overall. >> But since Neo Euler seems to have no italic style, it is of no use >> for academic purposes, like in my case. > > originally "euler" is a math companion font to "concrete" and it's not > trivial to make en euler with all text styles (maybe some day the tex > gyre project will give it a try) .. btw, the same is true for sans > fonts: at some point one runs out of distinctive features > > btw, it also fits with pagella (see type-imp-euler) I don't want to argue with you Hans, as I know that you have better things to do. But for clarification: for a non-power TeX / CTX user this is information, that one usually doesn't get, as it makes deep interest in fonts creation necessary. On the other hand I don't expect you to be the one who teaches users about fonts, relationships or even the motives behind their creation. Thanks for your explanation though. >> The story, to add to the subject of the mail, in case somebody >> searches the archive for this, is that I wasn't able to find out is >> how to change the math font only, as i like the standard font with >> \setupbodyfont[sans] as global setup but not the style of >> (non-modern) Euler. >> I tried >> >> \definefontfamily [mainface] [mm] [Xits Math] > > most users who mess with fonts either use the selectfont mechanism or > peek into the type-imp files to see how to set up a combination I see. Well I just used search on the CTX wiki to find information about selectfont, but neither selectfont nor \selectfont gives me any result. If it's something TeX related, then I have to say that I didn't start to use CTX to get into TeX before. Anyways this is where it starts. This time it's type-imp, other topics will make it necessary to search other source files and then it starts over... This is something for you, the other coders or users who want to tweak CTX or its components, but a standard user will never do this, as he usually doesn't know where to look for info. >> but this changes the whole typeface; not what I want. >> So the trick is to define the standard font for the rest of the font >> variations. The standard font can be found out with \showbodyfont. At >> least that's what it suggests. But it gives you "modern-design" as >> font. When you use this within \definefontfamily then it gives you >> nothing, because the real id of the standard font is "modern". So to >> change the math font only and keep the main font standard, you have >> to use this command group (just in case somebody looks for it): >> >> \definefontfamily [mainface] [rm] [Modern] % = serif >> \definefontfamily [mainface] [ss] [Modern] % = sans >> \definefontfamily [mainface] [tt] [Modern] % = mono (teletype) >> \definefontfamily [mainface] [mm] [Xits Math] [rscale=1.03] % = math >> >> But as this seems to be so trivial, that few people care, I really >> have to wonder why people who test CTX criticise the lack of >> documentation. We (especially who haven't been through LaTeX or even >> TeX) seem to be a minority. > > In what sense? In the sense that we (or let's even say just me) don't know where to look for information. I mean how many software do you have, where you go through its source files to understand how it does basic tasks? For me it's only CTX and as a consequence thereof Textadept, but for me that's already /too much/. So IMHO this must not be the future... Except for those who can't stop loving open source software that is usually made for a specific topic in the first place. > > Anyway, there is quite some documentation (also about fonts) available > (and the context distribution documentation section has examples). There you are right. There is so much documentation that it's overwhelming. For instance documentation on fonts goes over several wiki pages. Suffice it to say you have to know what you are looking for, and not where. And the more you start searching, the more wiki pages you have to go through. A better approach might be to merge several pages that belong to a single chapter to one single wiki page. But that's just my opinion. Another example: I have found different links to manuals like Hoekwater's or Hagen's (on the wiki). But on several pages you get links to several versions of the manual, for instance I found one link to Hoekwater's 2003 version and to 2011 or 2013 version (I don't remember the exact dates as I deleted them both). Some time later I read that there is an online manual somewhere in the download area, that has to be built first. But there seems to be no manual for Windows users how to do this. I.e. one has to get some basic Linux info or similar, just to build a manual. I don't find this to be user friendly at all. That being said, the US army has a code name for something like that: Charlie Foxtrot (abbreviation for cluster fuck, i.e. chaos). So indeed there is plenty of information, but most of it is written from the POV of a long time user or a programmer. There clearly lacks documentation from the POV of a simple user who has never used TeX or its kind. I mean sure, it could be only me who has a hard time understanding CTX, but since I have found out many things about CTX without asking anybody but reading information that is already there, the fact that I found out how to change only the math font after approx two years somehow shows me, that it's not only some lack of my will to read all the pages several times to understand CTX but also the lack of passion in the documentation. Still I won't give up. So far I am a happy CTX user. Cheers, Sebastian >> Cheers and thanks, S. >> On 23/07/2017 21:22, Pablo Rodriguez wrote: >>> On 07/22/2017 03:16 AM, Sebastian L. wrote: >>>> Hi, I have trouble with Neo Euler font after playing around with those >>>> options. >>>> [...] >>>> I am pretty sure that before I started mixing the fonts in one single >>>> document, Neo Euler was italic. >>>> >>>> Does anybody have a clue what might have went wrong? >>> Hi Sebastian, >>> >>> as far as I remember, Neo Euler is a regular font only >>> (https://github.com/khaledhosny/euler-otf). >>> >>> Euler is an italic font and it might have the other regular, bold, bold >>> italic typefaces (I don’t know). >>> >>> I hope it helps, >>> >>> Pablo >> >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an >> entry to the Wiki! >> >> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / >> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context >> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net >> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ >> wiki : http://contextgarden.net >> ___________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> > > --------------3AB38C5F30CEE0BF40405299 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for your response Hans.

On 25/07/2017 00:12, Hans Hagen wrote:
On 7/24/2017 11:41 PM, Sebastian L. wrote:
Yes it helps, thanks; it explains why there was so little response to this. ;)
After some search I found regular style pictures of it. I was sure, that it was italic as standard, because that's what "modern" suggests: compability for current regulations (i.e. regular constants, italic variables) as well as an attractive style overall. But since Neo Euler seems to have no italic style, it is of no use for academic purposes, like in my case.

originally "euler" is a math companion font to "concrete" and it's not trivial to make en euler with all text styles (maybe some day the tex gyre project will give it a try) .. btw, the same is true for sans fonts: at some point one runs out of distinctive features

btw, it also fits with pagella (see type-imp-euler)

I don't want to argue with you Hans, as I know that you have better things to do. But for clarification: for a non-power TeX / CTX user this is information, that one usually doesn't get, as it makes deep interest in fonts creation necessary. On the other hand I don't expect you to be the one who teaches users about fonts, relationships or even the motives behind their creation. Thanks for your explanation though.

The story, to add to the subject of the mail, in case somebody searches the archive for this, is that I wasn't able to find out is how to change the math font only, as i like the standard font with \setupbodyfont[sans] as global setup but not the style of (non-modern) Euler.
I tried

\definefontfamily [mainface] [mm] [Xits Math]

most users who mess with fonts either use the selectfont mechanism or peek into the type-imp files to see how to set up a combination

I see. Well I just used search on the CTX wiki to find information about selectfont, but neither selectfont nor \selectfont gives me any result. If it's something TeX related, then I have to say that I didn't start to use CTX to get into TeX before. Anyways this is where it starts. This time it's type-imp, other topics will make it necessary to search other source files and then it starts over... This is something for you, the other coders or users who want to tweak CTX or its components, but a standard user will never do this, as he usually doesn't know where to look for info.

but this changes the whole typeface; not what I want.
So the trick is to define the standard font for the rest of the font variations. The standard font can be found out with \showbodyfont. At least that's what it suggests. But it gives you "modern-design" as font. When you use this within \definefontfamily then it gives you nothing, because the real id of the standard font is "modern". So to change the math font only and keep the main font standard, you have to use this command group (just in case somebody looks for it):

\definefontfamily [mainface] [rm] [Modern] % = serif
\definefontfamily [mainface] [ss] [Modern] % = sans
\definefontfamily [mainface] [tt] [Modern] % = mono (teletype)
\definefontfamily [mainface] [mm] [Xits Math] [rscale=1.03] % = math

But as this seems to be so trivial, that few people care, I really have to wonder why people who test CTX criticise the lack of documentation. We (especially who haven't been through LaTeX or even TeX) seem to be a minority.

In what sense?

In the sense that we (or let's even say just me) don't know where to look for information. I mean how many software do you have, where you go through its source files to understand how it does basic tasks? For me it's only CTX and as a consequence thereof Textadept, but for me that's already too much. So IMHO this must not be the future... Except for those who can't stop loving open source software that is usually made for a specific topic in the first place.


Anyway, there is quite some documentation (also about fonts) available (and the context distribution documentation section has examples).

There you are right. There is so much documentation that it's overwhelming. For instance documentation on fonts goes over several wiki pages. Suffice it to say you have to know what you are looking for, and not where. And the more you start searching, the more wiki pages you have to go through. A better approach might be to merge several pages that belong to a single chapter to one single wiki page. But that's just my opinion. Another example: I have found different links to manuals like Hoekwater's or Hagen's (on the wiki). But on several pages you get links to several versions of the manual, for instance I found one link to Hoekwater's 2003 version and to 2011 or 2013 version (I don't remember the exact dates as I deleted them both). Some time later I read that there is an online manual somewhere in the download area, that has to be built first. But there seems to be no manual for Windows users how to do this. I.e. one has to get some basic Linux info or similar, just to build a manual. I don't find this to be user friendly at all. That being said, the US army has a code name for something like that: Charlie Foxtrot (abbreviation for cluster fuck, i.e. chaos). So indeed there is plenty of information, but most of it is written from the POV of a long time user or a programmer. There clearly lacks documentation from the POV of a simple user who has never used TeX or its kind.

I mean sure, it could be only me who has a hard time understanding CTX, but since I have found out many things about CTX without asking anybody but reading information that is already there, the fact that I found out how to change only the math font after approx two years somehow shows me, that it's not only some lack of my will to read all the pages several times to understand CTX but also the lack of passion in the documentation.

Still I won't give up. So far I am a happy CTX user.

Cheers, Sebastian


Cheers and thanks, S.
On 23/07/2017 21:22, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
On 07/22/2017 03:16 AM, Sebastian L. wrote:
Hi, I have trouble with Neo Euler font after playing around with those
options.
[...]
I am pretty sure that before I started mixing the fonts in one single
document, Neo Euler was italic.

Does anybody have a clue what might have went wrong?
Hi Sebastian,

as far as I remember, Neo Euler is a regular font only
(https://github.com/khaledhosny/euler-otf).

Euler is an italic font and it might have the other regular, bold, bold
italic typefaces (I don’t know).

I hope it helps,

Pablo



___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________




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