Expert version: How to make empty pages by default empty?

Expert version: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Hi Hans (probably the only relevant recipient),

while Patrick Gundlach could provide me a solution for all chapters in one file
there still is no idea how to do it within the project structure.

See for example the following:
The generated empty pages
after the TOC (page 2), and after the last chapter (14 and 15)
all have pagenumbers.

Quite ugly.

How to get rid of them?
How to make empty pages by default empty?

Steffen


Minimal Example:

\definepagebreak
    [chapter]
    [yes,header,right]

\setuphead
   [chapter]
   [page=chapter,
]

\setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
\setupsectionblock[frontmatter][page=chapter] % doesn't work

\starttext
\startfrontmatter
   \completecontent
\stopfrontmatter
\startbodymatter
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\stopbodymatter

\stoptext

Re: Expert version: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Holger Schöner]

Hi Steffen,

I could not confirm the following in the ConTeXt source code (could not find
the definition), but I might be remembering a similar case, where I wanted
special setups for chapters and wondered why the contents were shown
differently. As far as I remember, I solved it by using \setuphead not only
for chapter, but also for title (and/or some others?), so this might help
for your problem as well ...

For some reason the example you provided does not work at all for me
(there is no page break before chapters; perhaps my ConTeXt is too
old), so I'm sorry, I could not test this suggestion.

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> while Patrick Gundlach could provide me a solution for all chapters in one file
> there still is no idea how to do it within the project structure.
>
> See for example the following:
> The generated empty pages
> after the TOC (page 2), and after the last chapter (14 and 15)
> all have pagenumbers.
>
> Quite ugly.
>
> How to get rid of them?
> How to make empty pages by default empty?
>
> Steffen
>
>
> Minimal Example:
>
> \definepagebreak
>     [chapter]
>     [yes,header,right]
>
> \setuphead
>    [chapter]
>    [page=chapter,
> ]
>
> \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
> \setupsectionblock[frontmatter][page=chapter] % doesn't work
>
> \starttext
> \startfrontmatter
>    \completecontent
> \stopfrontmatter
> \startbodymatter
> \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
> \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
> \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
> \stopbodymatter
>
> \stoptext

-- 
Holger F. Schoener	TU Berlin; Dept. IV: EE and Computer Science
hfsch@cs.tu-berlin.de	http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~hfsch/
Rooms FR2525		Tel: +49-30-314-73115, Fax: -73121
Office FR 2-1		Franklinstr. 28/29, D-10587 Berlin, Germany

Re: Expert version: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Patrick Gundlach]

Holger Schöner <hfsch@cs.tu-berlin.de> writes:

Hi,

> For some reason the example you provided does not work at all for me
> (there is no page break before chapters; perhaps my ConTeXt is too
> old), so I'm sorry, I could not test this suggestion.

how old is your ConTeXt Version? It must be more than one year old
(that is if my memory serves me right).

Patrick
-- 
Silent is the goldfish in its bowl

Re: Re: Expert version: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Holger Schöner]

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
> Holger Schöner <hfsch@cs.tu-berlin.de> writes:
> > For some reason the example you provided does not work at all for me
> > (there is no page break before chapters; perhaps my ConTeXt is too
> > old), so I'm sorry, I could not test this suggestion.
>
> how old is your ConTeXt Version? It must be more than one year old
> (that is if my memory serves me right).

Not quite that much:
ConTeXt  ver: 2003.2.11  fmt: 2003.4.4  int: english  mes: english

and what I was wondering about is, that the command \definepagebreak exists,
and I cannot find an error message; so I do not know, where it breaks. But I
did not have time to investigate, and am planning to update anyway, when the
new TexLive is out ...

-- 
Holger F. Schoener	TU Berlin; Dept. IV: EE and Computer Science
hfsch@cs.tu-berlin.de	http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~hfsch/
Rooms FR2525		Tel: +49-30-314-73115, Fax: -73121
Office FR 2-1		Franklinstr. 28/29, D-10587 Berlin, Germany

Re: Re: Expert version: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Jens-Uwe Morawski]

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:38:03 +0200
Patrick Gundlach <pg@levana.de> wrote:

> Holger Schöner <hfsch@cs.tu-berlin.de> writes:
> >
> > For some reason the example you provided does not work at all for me
> > (there is no page break before chapters; perhaps my ConTeXt is too
> > old), so I'm sorry, I could not test this suggestion.
> 
> how old is your ConTeXt Version? It must be more than one year old
> (that is if my memory serves me right).

AFAIK No. Yesterday before my update to the current beta i tested the example
and it did not work. The version installed was from july this year.

With the current beta it works, but gives in the bad result Steffen mentioned
if \[start|stop][front|body]matter is present in the file. Esp. that it adds an empty
odd page 15. Without those *matter's  it works as expected. 

Jens

Re: Expert version: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:05 19/09/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi Steffen,



> > \definepagebreak
> >     [chapter]
> >     [yes,header,right]

\definepagebreak
   [chapter]
   [empty,header,right]

since yes+right in your case equals right; think of

yes yes yes == yes

and right right right ... being notthing when already on right

previous versions of context used to do a more hard coded pagebreak at 
section blocks (but i got so many complaints about that that i softened it)

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Expert version: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi Hans,

Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes:


> \definepagebreak
>    [chapter]
>    [empty,header,right]

could you explain in a few words what these keywords mean and how
they should be used? I can imagine what "right" is doing.

Patrick
-- 
Silent is the goldfish in its bowl

Re: Expert version: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi again,

> \definepagebreak
>    [chapter]
>    [empty,header,right]

I don't get it: 

==================================================
\definepagebreak
   [chapter]
   [empty,header,right] 

\setuphead
  [chapter]
  [page=chapter, 
]

\setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided] 
\setupsectionblock[frontmatter][page=chpater]

\starttext 
\startfrontmatter
  \completecontent
\stopfrontmatter
\startbodymatter
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte } 
\stopbodymatter

\stoptext
==================================================
gives me a 19 page document. 

page    contents
1       empty
2       empty
3       pagenumber, toc
4       pagenumber
5       empty
6       empty
7       pagenumber, text
...
17      pagenumber, text
18      pagenumber
19      pagenumber

The only pages I understand is 7--17. Why isn't the toc placed on page
one? Why is the page 4 headed with the pagenumber?
What is page 18 and 19 doing in the pdf file?

Patrick

Re: Re: Expert version: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Hans Hagen]

At 15:18 19/09/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi Hans,
>
>Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes:
>
>
> > \definepagebreak
> >    [chapter]
> >    [empty,header,right]
>
>could you explain in a few words what these keywords mean and how
>they should be used? I can imagine what "right" is doing.


empty   forces an empty page
header  nils the header line (which empty does anyway)
right   makes sure that we end up on a right page

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Simple but frustrating cross reference problem

[Duncan Hothersall]

Hello all.

I have a very simple challenge: I want to insert a reference point in a 
document, so that I can later refer to the page number at that point, 
but I'm not outputting a sectioning or start... command at the point in 
question.

I'm looking for something like \referencepoint[label] that can just be 
dropped anywhere in text so that I can later say \at{page }[label] and 
produce its page number.

I have searched documentation, and what I can of sources, in vain.

Thanks for any help.

Duncan

Re: Simple but frustrating cross reference problem

[Duncan Hothersall]

Apologies. I found the \pagereference[ref] command about a minute after 
sending this email. I had thought it output the page number, as the 
manual was slightly unclear on the issue. Sorry for the noise.

Duncan

Re: Simple but frustrating cross reference problem

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,

> I have a very simple challenge: I want to insert a reference point in
> a document, so that I can later refer to the page number at that
> point, but I'm not outputting a sectioning or start... command at the
> point in question.

besides your approach:

\starttext
See page \ref[p][myref 1] and \ref[p][myref 2].
\page
\reference[myref 1]{} This is the first reference.
\page
\reference[myref 2]{} This is the second one.
\stoptext


Patrick
-- 
I've put this in etexshow-web

Re: Expert version: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

>  At 10:05 19/09/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>  >Hi Steffen,
>
>
>
>  > > \definepagebreak
>  > >     [chapter]
>  > >     [yes,header,right]
>
>  \definepagebreak
>     [chapter]
>     [empty,header,right]


Sorry, but that doesn't work.

When changed the minimal example to...

\definepagebreak
    [chapter]
    [empty,header,right]

\setuphead
    [chapter]
    [page=chapter,]

\setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]

\starttext
\startfrontmatter
    \completecontent
\stopfrontmatter
\startbodymatter
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\stopbodymatter

\stoptext


... we have page numbers on (empty) page number 4, 18 and 19!

Plus there are two strange empty empty pages before the TOC?!

Steffen

Re: Expert version: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

>  At 10:05 19/09/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>  >Hi Steffen,
>
>
>
>  > > \definepagebreak
>  > >     [chapter]
>  > >     [yes,header,right]
>
>  \definepagebreak
>     [chapter]
>     [empty,header,right]


That doesn't work!

When changed the minimal example to...

\definepagebreak
    [chapter]
    [empty,header,right]

\setuphead
    [chapter]
    [page=chapter,]

\setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]

\starttext
\startfrontmatter
    \completecontent
\stopfrontmatter
\startbodymatter
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\stopbodymatter

\stoptext


... we have page numbers on (empty) page number 4, 18 and 19!

Plus there are two strange empty empty pages before the TOC?!

Steffen