From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/15907 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Patrick Gundlach" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation? Date: 3 Aug 2004 08:31:47 +0200 Organization: chaos Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Message-ID: References: <200408022313.i72NDkpC006902@blue1.Math.Berkeley.EDU> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1091514843 23331 80.91.224.253 (3 Aug 2004 06:34:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 06:34:03 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Tue Aug 03 08:33:47 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Brsrr-0001rn-00 for ; Tue, 03 Aug 2004 08:33:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB0D2127A5; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:33:46 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ronja.vet.uu.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 23593-05; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:33:46 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 270E112789; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:32:01 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7032D12789 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:31:59 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ronja.vet.uu.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 23593-04 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:31:58 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lilly.ping.de (unknown [83.97.42.2]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id D11A112772 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:31:58 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: (qmail 3259 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2004 06:31:57 -0000 Original-Received: (ofmipd 83.97.40.227); 3 Aug 2004 06:31:35 -0000 Original-Received: from schnee.local. (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by schnee.local (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i736VrZ5000145 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:31:53 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: (from pg@localhost) by schnee.local. (8.12.9/8.12.2/Submit) id i736VoJh000144; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:31:50 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Authentication-Warning: schnee.local.: pg set sender to patrick@gundla.ch using -f X-Lieblings-Musik: the_capricorns In-Reply-To: <200408022313.i72NDkpC006902@blue1.Math.Berkeley.EDU> (Paulo Ney de Souza's message of "Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:13:46 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) Emacs/21.3.50 (darwin) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:15907 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.context:15907 Hello again, > >Oh come on, this is completely crap. The people at PRAGMA (i.e. Hans) > >share ConTeXt, wich is the holy grail that PRAGMA is based on > >(besides the knowledge). It is such a generous gift to the community. > >Please think about if you write stuff like that. > > I realize better that you do Hans contibutions to the Open Source community > and I never complained about the sharing of ConTeXt, which is indeed the > best typesetting system I have seen. You are taking my comment into a > completely different context, pun not intended! No, actually I am not. You wrote "People at Pragma are willing to show off but not willing to share code and teach by example..." Willing to show off -> that is right. The talks etc. are really impressive (but more than that). "but not willing to share code" -> this is, as you know, mostly wrong. How many thousands of lines do they share? How many lines do you share? "...and teach by example". There *are* a few examples online. Did you look at the magazines? Did you look at the pdftex manual? I just guess you did not find them. (Or know about.) > >There are already some styles in the ConTeXt wiki. And there are > >styles that come with the distribution. > > The discussion is not about styles, it is about examples and how-to. Styles are examples. Did you have a look? And yes, howtos are missing. [...] > We are not talking about experience and or copy/paste, if you are assuming > that I don't have the experience or that the guy that posted the initial > message wants to copy and paste, again you are on the wrong track. You were talking about reverse engeneering. What is wrong about making up your own style and publish it? You obviously lack experience (which is not ment negative) (or are too unwilling to do so) in style design with ConTeXt, or you would do the first step and publish *your* styles somewhere, together with sources. Then you will find out that publishing source code is not always trivial. So my conclusion is something like this: write down your questions you have and we can fill in the gap. As long as people are only complaining and whining, nothing will change. Constructive criticism is much better than the messages you sent. And if we continue this conversation: please point out which styles you would like to see available. There too many documents at PRAGMA, so we might talk about different items. Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net texshow-web: http://texshow.contextgarden.net List archive: http://archive.contextgarden.net