Re: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

Re: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

[Elena Fraboschi]

Dear Mojca:

I think I see what the problem is.  If, instead of typing

>\bTR\bTD
>	a midaligned parbox:
>\eTD\bTD[offset=0pt,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
>	1 2 3
>\eTD\eTR

you type
1\ 2\ 3\

you get what is wanted, namely,

  1
  2
  3
  
My guess is that there is a built-in bias not to split a line
but, rather, give you an overfull \hbox.  I "forced" the
issue by defining each column to be less than 1em (because "1"
is a very narrow char that surely takes less than 1 em), and
by adding a typescript space after each number.  It might
even be possible to eliminate the typescript space and simply
define each column to be 0.25em, say, but I did not try it.
Best, elena

P.S.  Let me know if I missed the boat entirely.  This is the
first issue I attempt to answer.

Here is what I ran in LiveContext:

\starttext
\setupTABLE[frame=on] % only for debugging reasons
\setupTABLE[c][each][align=lohi] % to center vertically (any better way?)
\bTABLE
\bTR\bTD[offset=0pt,width=0.5em] % 1em wide paragraph
	1\ 2\ 3\
\eTD\eTR
\eTABLE
\stoptext



>Hello,
>
>On the wiki (http://contextgarden.net/Vertically_centred) a while ago 
>someone asked how to do the following in ConTeXt:
>
>%%%%%%
>
>\documentclass{article}
>\begin{document}
>a box with a table:
>\fbox{\begin{tabular}[c]{l}1\\2\\3\end{tabular}}\par
>
>a midaligned parbox: \parbox[c]{1em}{1 2 3}
>\end{document}
>
>%%%%%%
>
>I don't know if this would be the proper solution, but for the second 
>case (\parbox[c]{1em}{...} which should make a paragraph 1 em wide and 
>center the paragraph box vertically) I tried the following:
>
>%%%%%%
>
>\setupTABLE[frame=on] % only for debugging reasons
>\setupTABLE[c][1,2][align=lohi] % to center vertically (any better way?)
>\bTABLE
>\bTR\bTD
>	a midaligned parbox:
>\eTD\bTD[offset=0pt,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
>	1 2 3
>\eTD\eTR
>\eTABLE
>
>%%%%%%
>
>My ConTeXt version is 2005.06.27.
>See the vcenter-context-old.png for the result.
>
>The strange thing is that the number 2 is still in the first line, 
>although it is too wide.
>
>Even more strange, I tried the same on live.contextgarden.net. See 
>vcenter-context-new.png for the result.
>
>vcenter-latex.tex is what the result should be.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>This also results in a mess on the live.contextgarden.net:
>
>\bTABLE
>\bTR\bTD
>     {\bTABLE
>        \bTR\bTD whatever \eTD\eTR
>     \eTABLE}
>\eTD\eTR
>\eTABLE
>
>Mojca

Re: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

[Mojca Miklavec]

Elena Fraboschi wrote:
> My guess is that there is a built-in bias not to split a line
> but, rather, give you an overfull \hbox.  I "forced" the
> issue by defining each column to be less than 1em (because "1"
> is a very narrow char that surely takes less than 1 em), and
> by adding a typescript space after each number.  It might
> even be possible to eliminate the typescript space and simply
> define each column to be 0.25em, say, but I did not try it.

It may actually be that the penalty for an underfull box is bigger
than for the overfull one. This explains strange placing of the
numbers then.

... but in the latest ConTeXt version it looks as if it wouldn't work at all.

-----------------------------------------------

It is perhaps a lot of work included, but extending the
contextgarden.net in such a way that users could provide test cases
which would be typeset with different ConTeXt versions and PNGs
compared afterwards ... could make it easier to discover any broken
functionality.

Mojca

test suite in the garden (was: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE)

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2005-07-25 um 22:04 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:

> It is perhaps a lot of work included, but extending the
> contextgarden.net in such a way that users could provide test cases
> which would be typeset with different ConTeXt versions and PNGs
> compared afterwards ... could make it easier to discover any broken
> functionality.

Oh, another quest for our magic Patrick! ;-)

Let me extend the suggestion, for we miss a ConTeXt test suite for a  
long time now:

- users send test cases
- test cases get typeset with the actual ConTeXt and converted to PNG  
(like inline samples)
- user "votes" if it looks right, if not adds comment
- test case gets saved, including PNG, ConTeXt version and vote/comments
- at next update, all test cases get typeset again, and users can  
"vote" if it looks still ok or at least the same (perhaps it would be  
possible to check automatically if the bitmaps are exactly identical)

This does work only for max. 1 page samples, and I don't know if it's  
within the abilities of our wizard(s)...
And I guess different users have different opinions what looks  
"right", but we could check if something changed.


Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://contextgarden.net

Re: test suite in the garden

[Hans Hagen]

Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

> Am 2005-07-25 um 22:04 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:
>
>> It is perhaps a lot of work included, but extending the
>> contextgarden.net in such a way that users could provide test cases
>> which would be typeset with different ConTeXt versions and PNGs
>> compared afterwards ... could make it easier to discover any broken
>> functionality.
>
>
> Oh, another quest for our magic Patrick! ;-)
>
> Let me extend the suggestion, for we miss a ConTeXt test suite for a  
> long time now:
>
> - users send test cases
> - test cases get typeset with the actual ConTeXt and converted to PNG  
> (like inline samples)
> - user "votes" if it looks right, if not adds comment
> - test case gets saved, including PNG, ConTeXt version and vote/comments
> - at next update, all test cases get typeset again, and users can  
> "vote" if it looks still ok or at least the same (perhaps it would be  
> possible to check automatically if the bitmaps are exactly identical)
>
> This does work only for max. 1 page samples, and I don't know if it's  
> within the abilities of our wizard(s)...
> And I guess different users have different opinions what looks  
> "right", but we could check if something changed.

i'd say, go ahead ... you can use the wiki as place to collect those things

Hans 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: test suite in the garden

[Patrick Gundlach]

>> It is perhaps a lot of work included, but extending the
>> contextgarden.net in such a way that users could provide test cases
>> which would be typeset with different ConTeXt versions and PNGs
>> compared afterwards ... could make it easier to discover any broken
>> functionality.

It comes down to:

* different context versions needed
* different test documents needed

1) user can select any combination of the above
2) result (one page/png, more pages pdf) can be viewed or downloaded
3) feedback

or perhaps (as I can read between your lines)

a pdf with even number of pages:
left page: original, right page the selcted version. 

So we need test documents and after that context can mix in the pages
from the known good document and the selecte version. 

So you think that users actually download these comparisons?

> Oh, another quest for our magic Patrick! ;-)

Don't call me magic. I am currently trying to understand the tftopl,
pltotf, vftovp and vptovf programs in detail. And I am so miserable at
that; all kinds of optimizations that makes the code unreadable. 

> Let me extend the suggestion, for we miss a ConTeXt test suite for a
> long time now:
>
> - users send test cases
> - test cases get typeset with the actual ConTeXt and converted to PNG
>   (like inline samples)
> - user "votes" if it looks right, if not adds comment
> - test case gets saved, including PNG, ConTeXt version and vote/comments
> - at next update, all test cases get typeset again, and users can
>   "vote" if it looks still ok or at least the same (perhaps it would
>   be  possible to check automatically if the bitmaps are exactly
>   identical)

Again, I doubt that users will actually do these kind of things. I
could provide some interface for documents connected to version
numbers, so you could download a set of .tex files (or one big tex
file) and the related pdf file, but we need to collect good examples.
And I think that testing is very hard: there are so many different
things in ConTeXt that can be tested, so the pdf would result in a few
hundred pages. 

Patrick
-- 
ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net

Re: Re: test suite in the garden

[Mojca Miklavec]

Patrick Gundlach wrote:
> 
> >> It is perhaps a lot of work included, but extending the
> >> contextgarden.net in such a way that users could provide test cases
> >> which would be typeset with different ConTeXt versions and PNGs
> >> compared afterwards ... could make it easier to discover any broken
> >> functionality.
> 
> It comes down to:
> 
> * different context versions needed

Once you are done with the fonts ... Different ConTeXt versions also
seem to be useful for all kinds of stuff:
- browsing (& comparing) old source files
- running live.contextgarden.net on older versions (in case the
behaviour in the new version is changed)
- (maybe donloading old ConTeXt versions for whatever reason?)
- modules.pdf
- test suite

> * different test documents needed

This can be done gradually. Of course, it is impossible to have a very
good test suite, but at least some features can be tested; broken
functionality would be noted much later otherwise (if ever). If you
let the users add stuff, the suit will gradually grow. It would be
much easier then to say "take a look: my document is OK with the
version this-and-that, but since the version this-and-that something
strange happens" when reporting a bug.

(Perhaps testing documents should also have at least some very basic
set of labels: very important to test, interesting test case, just
temporary or one-time testing. Or at least some switch to leave the
document there, but to remove it from the list of "test suite" when
next ConTeXt version is out. 100 versions and 1000 documents ... can
slow down your computer a bit.)

> 1) user can select any combination of the above
> 2) result (one page/png, more pages pdf) can be viewed or downloaded

Converting multiple-page pdf to png-s should also be possible. Take
http://archive.contextgarden.net/thread/20050701.172657.13cd3fb5.html
for example (the difference seen on the third page). But the number of
pages or at least the number of document with a big number of pages
has to be limited somehow.

> 3) feedback

Perhaps some labeling in case the results differ?
- Label A: to inspect what's going wrong
- Label B: it's ok, it's only a new feature, not supported before
- Label C: ok, the bug was removed (some page inbetween differ)
- Label D: ...

Only the label A and perhaps some others would be interesting then ...

> So we need test documents and after that context can mix in the pages
> from the known good document and the selecte version.
> 
> So you think that users actually download these comparisons?

The most important would be some graphical representation (different
colors if a document doesn't compile or if it changes), but allowing
the user to download a selected document compiled with a selected
version should be possible.

> Don't call me magic. I am currently trying to understand the tftopl,
> pltotf, vftovp and vptovf programs in detail. And I am so miserable at
> that; all kinds of optimizations that makes the code unreadable.

:)

> > Let me extend the suggestion, for we miss a ConTeXt test suite for a
> > long time now:
> >
> > - users send test cases
> > - test cases get typeset with the actual ConTeXt and converted to PNG
> >   (like inline samples)
> > - user "votes" if it looks right, if not adds comment
> > - test case gets saved, including PNG, ConTeXt version and vote/comments
> > - at next update, all test cases get typeset again, and users can
> >   "vote" if it looks still ok or at least the same (perhaps it would
> >   be  possible to check automatically if the bitmaps are exactly
> >   identical)
> 
> Again, I doubt that users will actually do these kind of things. I
> could provide some interface for documents connected to version
> numbers, so you could download a set of .tex files (or one big tex
> file) and the related pdf file, but we need to collect good examples.
> And I think that testing is very hard: there are so many different
> things in ConTeXt that can be tested, so the pdf would result in a few
> hundred pages.

No, this wouldn't make any sense. I was thinking about PDF to PNG
conversion and bitwise comparison of the files, which could be made
automatically. Each time a new version would be uploaded, the
documents would be compiled, any compilation errors caught and any
image differences reported. Only if any of those two cases would be
reported, the results would be inspected manually.

Sorry Patrick :),
    Mojca

Re: test suite in the garden

[Patrick Gundlach]

[...]

> No, this wouldn't make any sense. I was thinking about PDF to PNG
> conversion and bitwise comparison of the files, which could be made
> automatically. Each time a new version would be uploaded, the
> documents would be compiled, any compilation errors caught and any
> image differences reported. Only if any of those two cases would be
> reported, the results would be inspected manually.

Anybody needs a subject for his (or her!!!) masters thesis?

Patrick
-- 
ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net

Re: Re: test suite in the garden

[Taco Hoekwater]

Patrick Gundlach wrote:
> 
> Don't call me magic. I am currently trying to understand the tftopl,
> pltotf, vftovp and vptovf programs in detail. And I am so miserable at
> that; all kinds of optimizations that makes the code unreadable. 

I've spent the better part of the last week trying to come to terms
with the eq_define() and unsave() routines in TeX, so I can relate
to that :-/


Taco

Re: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

>It may actually be that the penalty for an underfull box is bigger
>than for the overfull one. This explains strange placing of the
>numbers then.
>  
>
let's eee what taco says ... our tex source  magician may knows the 
dirty details

>... but in the latest ConTeXt version it looks as if it wouldn't work at all.
>  
>
eh ... what exactly does not work in the latest



Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> 
>> It may actually be that the penalty for an underfull box is bigger
>> than for the overfull one. This explains strange placing of the
>> numbers then.
>>  
>>
> let's eee what taco says ... our tex source  magician may knows the 
> dirty details

lines that cannot stretch far enough are skipped. Lines that cannot
shrink far enough are unsolvable, and therefore remain present.

Taco

Re: Strange behaviour of \bTABLE ... \eTABLE

[Hans Hagen]

Elena Fraboschi wrote:

>Dear Mojca:
>
>I think I see what the problem is.  If, instead of typing
>
>  
>
>>\bTR\bTD
>>	a midaligned parbox:
>>\eTD\bTD[offset=0pt,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
>>	1 2 3
>>\eTD\eTR
>>    
>>
>
>you type
>1\ 2\ 3\
>
>you get what is wanted, namely,
>
>  1
>  2
>  3
>  
>My guess is that there is a built-in bias not to split a line
>but, rather, give you an overfull \hbox.  I "forced" the
>issue by defining each column to be less than 1em (because "1"
>is a very narrow char that surely takes less than 1 em), and
>by adding a typescript space after each number.  It might
>even be possible to eliminate the typescript space and simply
>define each column to be 0.25em, say, but I did not try it.
>Best, elena
>
>P.S.  Let me know if I missed the boat entirely.  This is the
>first issue I attempt to answer.
>
>Here is what I ran in LiveContext:
>
>\starttext
>\setupTABLE[frame=on] % only for debugging reasons
>\setupTABLE[c][each][align=lohi] % to center vertically (any better way?)
>\bTABLE
>\bTR\bTD[offset=0pt,width=0.5em] % 1em wide paragraph
>	1\ 2\ 3\
>\eTD\eTR
>\eTABLE
>\stoptext
>
>
>
>  
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>On the wiki (http://contextgarden.net/Vertically_centred) a while ago 
>>someone asked how to do the following in ConTeXt:
>>
>>%%%%%%
>>
>>\documentclass{article}
>>\begin{document}
>>a box with a table:
>>\fbox{\begin{tabular}[c]{l}1\\2\\3\end{tabular}}\par
>>
>>a midaligned parbox: \parbox[c]{1em}{1 2 3}
>>\end{document}
>>
>>%%%%%%
>>
>>I don't know if this would be the proper solution, but for the second 
>>case (\parbox[c]{1em}{...} which should make a paragraph 1 em wide and 
>>center the paragraph box vertically) I tried the following:
>>
>>%%%%%%
>>
>>\setupTABLE[frame=on] % only for debugging reasons
>>\setupTABLE[c][1,2][align=lohi] % to center vertically (any better way?)
>>\bTABLE
>>\bTR\bTD
>>	a midaligned parbox:
>>\eTD\bTD[offset=0pt,width=1em] % 1em wide paragraph
>>	1 2 3
>>\eTD\eTR
>>\eTABLE
>>
>>%%%%%%
>>
>>My ConTeXt version is 2005.06.27.
>>See the vcenter-context-old.png for the result.
>>
>>The strange thing is that the number 2 is still in the first line, 
>>although it is too wide.
>>
>>Even more strange, I tried the same on live.contextgarden.net. See 
>>vcenter-context-new.png for the result.
>>
>>vcenter-latex.tex is what the result should be.
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>This also results in a mess on the live.contextgarden.net:
>>
>>\bTABLE
>>\bTR\bTD
>>    {\bTABLE
>>       \bTR\bTD whatever \eTD\eTR
>>    \eTABLE}
>>\eTD\eTR
>>\eTABLE
>>
>>Mojca
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ntg-context mailing list
>ntg-context@ntg.nl
>http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>
>
>  
>


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------