\startuserdata syntax questions

\startuserdata syntax questions

[Rik Kabel]

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Wolfgang, Hans, et al,

The new \startuserdata macro looks very promising, and can simplify some 
work I have in progress.

The first question: the wiki example and the source use

    \userparameter{optionkey}
    \userparameter{anotherkey}

to retrieve the value of optionkey and anotherkey. Is there a way to 
provide the key/value pairs in a manner that they can be retrieved with 
the getparameters mechanism, as:

    \getrawparameters [XX] [optionkey=,anotherkey=,#1]

This has the added advantage of allowing the setting of a default value, as

    \getrawparameters [XX] [optionkey=2em,anotherkey=,#1]

Or is there a reason not to use getparameters in this setting?


The second question: Is there the possibility to enhance the syntax so 
that one can write

    \startMyStuff [optionalkey=value, anotherkey=value]
         stuff
    \stopMyStuff

instead of

    \startuserdata [MyStuff] [optionalkey=value, anotherkey=value]
    stuff
    \stopuserdata

Such syntactic sugar makes sweeter reading of the text, and makes 
clearer what is being done when nesting the macro.

-- 
Rik Kabel


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Re: \startuserdata syntax questions

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/28/2018 10:40 PM, Rik Kabel wrote:
> Wolfgang, Hans, et al,
> 
> The new \startuserdata macro looks very promising, and can simplify some 
> work I have in progress.
> 
> The first question: the wiki example and the source use
> 
>     \userparameter{optionkey}
>     \userparameter{anotherkey}
> 
> to retrieve the value of optionkey and anotherkey. Is there a way to 
> provide the key/value pairs in a manner that they can be retrieved with 
> the getparameters mechanism, as:
> 
>     \getrawparameters [XX] [optionkey=,anotherkey=,#1]
> 
> This has the added advantage of allowing the setting of a default value, as
> 
>     \getrawparameters [XX] [optionkey=2em,anotherkey=,#1]
> 
> Or is there a reason not to use getparameters in this setting?

hardly any of the core mechanisms in mkiv uses get(raw)parameters

define a category and then clone it ...

> The second question: Is there the possibility to enhance the syntax so 
> that one can write
> 
>     \startMyStuff [optionalkey=value, anotherkey=value]
>          stuff
>     \stopMyStuff
> 
> instead of
> 
>     \startuserdata [MyStuff] [optionalkey=value, anotherkey=value]
>     stuff
>     \stopuserdata
> 
> Such syntactic sugar makes sweeter reading of the text, and makes 
> clearer what is being done when nesting the macro.
for such Named environments there are probably other alternatives 
(depending on what you need it for), like blocks

also, user dat picks up its content (they're buffers) so that would also 
mean more nested buffers .. it's meant as a simple mechanism

Hans

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Re: \startuserdata syntax questions

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Hans Hagen schrieb am 29.08.18 um 09:15:
> On 8/28/2018 10:40 PM, Rik Kabel wrote:
>> Wolfgang, Hans, et al,
>>
>> The new \startuserdata macro looks very promising, and can simplify 
>> some work I have in progress.
>>
>> The first question: the wiki example and the source use
>>
>>     \userparameter{optionkey}
>>     \userparameter{anotherkey}
>>
>> to retrieve the value of optionkey and anotherkey. Is there a way to 
>> provide the key/value pairs in a manner that they can be retrieved 
>> with the getparameters mechanism, as:
>>
>>     \getrawparameters [XX] [optionkey=,anotherkey=,#1]
>>
>> This has the added advantage of allowing the setting of a default 
>> value, as
>>
>>     \getrawparameters [XX] [optionkey=2em,anotherkey=,#1]
>>
>> Or is there a reason not to use getparameters in this setting?
>
> hardly any of the core mechanisms in mkiv uses get(raw)parameters
>
> define a category and then clone it ... 

\defineuserdata [rik] [name=Rik,alternative=rik]

\defineuserdataalternative [rik] [renderingsetup=userdata:rik]

\startsetups [userdata:rik]
     \starttabulate[|l|p|]
     \NC \userdataparameter{name} \NC \getuserdata \NC\NR
     \stoptabulate
\stopsetups

\starttext

\startuserdata [rik]
\samplefile{greenfield}
\stopuserdata

\startuserdata [rik] [name=Greenfield]
\samplefile{greenfield}
\stopuserdata

\stoptext

> The second question: Is there the possibility to enhance the syntax so 
> that one can write
>>
>>     \startMyStuff [optionalkey=value, anotherkey=value]
>>          stuff
>>     \stopMyStuff
>>
>> instead of
>>
>>     \startuserdata [MyStuff] [optionalkey=value, anotherkey=value]
>>     stuff
>>     \stopuserdata

I can generated environment commands but I haven’t done this at the 
beginning because I prefer to pass the name of the environment as 
argument because this allows me to check if the used instance exists.

>> Such syntactic sugar makes sweeter reading of the text, and makes 
>> clearer what is being done when nesting the macro.
> for such Named environments there are probably other alternatives 
> (depending on what you need it for), like blocks
>
> also, user dat picks up its content (they're buffers) so that would 
> also mean more nested buffers .. it's meant as a simple mechanism

Yes, the environment is meant for short blocks of text (e.g. a 
blockquote) where you have to set different texts (e.g. the name of a 
author) for each use of the environment.

I thought about adding a switch to change between buffer mode and normal 
start/stop commands which work like the startstop environment but it 
wasn’t worth the effort.

Wolfgang

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Re: \startuserdata syntax questions

[Rik Kabel]

On 8/29/2018 11:19, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
>
> Hans Hagen schrieb am 29.08.18 um 09:15:
>> On 8/28/2018 10:40 PM, Rik Kabel wrote:
>>> Wolfgang, Hans, et al,
>>>
>>> The new \startuserdata macro looks very promising, and can simplify 
>>> some work I have in progress.
>>>
>>> The first question: the wiki example and the source use
>>>
>>>     \userparameter{optionkey}
>>>     \userparameter{anotherkey}
>>>
>>> to retrieve the value of optionkey and anotherkey. Is there a way to 
>>> provide the key/value pairs in a manner that they can be retrieved 
>>> with the getparameters mechanism, as:
>>>
>>>     \getrawparameters [XX] [optionkey=,anotherkey=,#1]
>>>
>>> This has the added advantage of allowing the setting of a default 
>>> value, as
>>>
>>>     \getrawparameters [XX] [optionkey=2em,anotherkey=,#1]
>>>
>>> Or is there a reason not to use getparameters in this setting?
>>
>> hardly any of the core mechanisms in mkiv uses get(raw)parameters
>>
>> define a category and then clone it ... 
>
> \defineuserdata [rik] [name=Rik,alternative=rik]
>
> \defineuserdataalternative [rik] [renderingsetup=userdata:rik]
>
> \startsetups [userdata:rik]
>     \starttabulate[|l|p|]
>     \NC \userdataparameter{name} \NC \getuserdata \NC\NR
>     \stoptabulate
> \stopsetups
>
> \starttext
>
> \startuserdata [rik]
> \samplefile{greenfield}
> \stopuserdata
>
> \startuserdata [rik] [name=Greenfield]
> \samplefile{greenfield}
> \stopuserdata
>
> \stoptext
>

Ahh, that does nicely to set defaults. Thank you.

>> The second question: Is there the possibility to enhance the syntax 
>> so that one can write
>>>
>>>     \startMyStuff [optionalkey=value, anotherkey=value]
>>>          stuff
>>>     \stopMyStuff
>>>
>>> instead of
>>>
>>>     \startuserdata [MyStuff] [optionalkey=value, anotherkey=value]
>>>     stuff
>>>     \stopuserdata
>
> I can generated environment commands but I haven’t done this at the 
> beginning because I prefer to pass the name of the environment as 
> argument because this allows me to check if the used instance exists.
>
>>> Such syntactic sugar makes sweeter reading of the text, and makes 
>>> clearer what is being done when nesting the macro.
>> for such Named environments there are probably other alternatives 
>> (depending on what you need it for), like blocks
>>
>> also, user dat picks up its content (they're buffers) so that would 
>> also mean more nested buffers .. it's meant as a simple mechanism
>
> Yes, the environment is meant for short blocks of text (e.g. a 
> blockquote) where you have to set different texts (e.g. the name of a 
> author) for each use of the environment.
>
> I thought about adding a switch to change between buffer mode and 
> normal start/stop commands which work like the startstop environment 
> but it wasn’t worth the effort.
>

Very well. It is what it is. The ability to set defaults goes a long way.

> Wolfgang
>
-- 
Rik


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Re: \startuserdata syntax questions

[Aditya Mahajan]

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On Wed, 29 Aug 2018, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

>> The second question: Is there the possibility to enhance the syntax so 
>> that one can write
>>>
>>>     \startMyStuff [optionalkey=value, anotherkey=value]
>>>          stuff
>>>     \stopMyStuff
>>>
>>> instead of
>>>
>>>     \startuserdata [MyStuff] [optionalkey=value, anotherkey=value]
>>>     stuff
>>>     \stopuserdata
>
> I can generated environment commands but I haven’t done this at the 
> beginning because I prefer to pass the name of the environment as 
> argument because this allows me to check if the used instance exists.

Perhaps adding a `command=yes` key, which can be set to `no` by default.

Aditya

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