\quotation

\quotation

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Dear gang,

This has bugged me for years but I never said anything since the  
workaround is so easy. OTOH I am working on something I'd like to share  
with others and an official solution would be better:

\starttext
\input knuth
\startquotation
\input knuth
\stopquotation
\input knuth
\stoptext

I. \start-\stopquotation surrounds the block quote in double-quotes marks.  
I don't know about other European languages but in English this is  
redundant; I've hardly ever seen block quotes use dbl-quote marks.

We at least need a setup option to turn this off.

II. There should be some default whitespace between the block quote and  
the surrounding text, just as \start-stopitemize has. Or at least this  
should be configurable in the setups.

If these two are already there (not in the manual) then please let us know  
how to set this up. Otherwise could you add configuration options for this?

FYI: Here is what I use

===========
\definestartstop
   [quote]
   [before={\startnarrower[2*left,2*right]\blank[big]\noindenting},
     after={\stopnarrower\blank[big]}]
===========

Best wishes
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: \quotation

[Wolfgang Schuster]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2077 bytes --]

2007/11/1, Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu>:
>
> Dear gang,
>
> This has bugged me for years but I never said anything since the
> workaround is so easy. OTOH I am working on something I'd like to share
> with others and an official solution would be better:
>
> \starttext
> \input knuth
> \startquotation
> \input knuth
> \stopquotation
> \input knuth
> \stoptext
>
> I. \start-\stopquotation surrounds the block quote in double-quotes marks.
> I don't know about other European languages but in English this is
> redundant; I've hardly ever seen block quotes use dbl-quote marks.
>
> We at least need a setup option to turn this off.
>
> II. There should be some default whitespace between the block quote and
> the surrounding text, just as \start-stopitemize has. Or at least this
> should be configurable in the setups.
>
> If these two are already there (not in the manual) then please let us know
> how to set this up. Otherwise could you add configuration options for
> this?
>
> FYI: Here is what I use
>
> ===========
> \definestartstop
>    [quote]
>    [before={\startnarrower[2*left,2*right]\blank[big]\noindenting},
>      after={\stopnarrower\blank[big]}]
> ===========
>
> Best wishes
> Idris


Hi Idris,

there is no perfect solution in ConTeXt because the \quotation and the
\start/stopquotation commands are defined with the same definition and it is
not possible to disable the quote marks for the one and enable it for the
other,
but you can use ConTeXt's mechanism for nested quotations and redefine the
other one.

\setupdelimitedtext
  [quotation]
  [1]
  [left={\symbol[leftquotation]},
   right={\symbol[rightquotation]}]

\setupdelimitedtext
  [quotation]
  [2]
  [left={\symbol[leftquote]},
   right={\symbol[rightquote]}]

\setupdelimitedtext
  [quote]
  [location=margin, % paragraph
   left=,
   right=,
   before={\blank[big]},
   after={\blank[big]}]

\starttext

\input knuth

\quotation{I'm a quoteted text \quotation{within another quoteted text} and
back.}

\startquote
\input knuth
\stopquote

\input knuth

\stoptext

Wolfgang

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2683 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: \quotation

[Wolfgang Schuster]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2524 bytes --]

2007/11/2, Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com>:
>
>
>
> 2007/11/1, Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu>:
> >
> > Dear gang,
> >
> > This has bugged me for years but I never said anything since the
> > workaround is so easy. OTOH I am working on something I'd like to share
> > with others and an official solution would be better:
> >
> > \starttext
> > \input knuth
> > \startquotation
> > \input knuth
> > \stopquotation
> > \input knuth
> > \stoptext
> >
> > I. \start-\stopquotation surrounds the block quote in double-quotes
> > marks.
> > I don't know about other European languages but in English this is
> > redundant; I've hardly ever seen block quotes use dbl-quote marks.
> >
> > We at least need a setup option to turn this off.
> >
> > II. There should be some default whitespace between the block quote and
> > the surrounding text, just as \start-stopitemize has. Or at least this
> > should be configurable in the setups.
> >
> > If these two are already there (not in the manual) then please let us
> > know
> > how to set this up. Otherwise could you add configuration options for
> > this?
> >
> > FYI: Here is what I use
> >
> > ===========
> > \definestartstop
> >    [quote]
> >    [before={\startnarrower[2*left,2*right]\blank[big]\noindenting},
> >      after={\stopnarrower\blank[big]}]
> > ===========
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Idris
>
>
> Hi Idris,
>
> there is no perfect solution in ConTeXt because the \quotation and the
> \start/stopquotation commands are defined with the same definition and it
> is
> not possible to disable the quote marks for the one and enable it for the
> other,
> but you can use ConTeXt's mechanism for nested quotations and redefine the
> other one.
>
> \setupdelimitedtext
>   [quotation]
>   [1]
>   [left={\symbol[leftquotation]},
>    right={\symbol[rightquotation]}]
>
> \setupdelimitedtext
>   [quotation]
>   [2]
>   [left={\symbol[leftquote]},
>    right={\symbol[rightquote]}]
>
> \setupdelimitedtext
>   [quote]
>   [location=margin, % paragraph
>    left=,
>    right=,
>    before={\blank[big]},
>    after={\blank[big]}]
>

This can also be written as

\setupdelimitedtext
  [quote]
  [location=margin, % paragraph
   left=,
   right=,
   spacebefore=big,
   %spaceafter=big, % spaceafter is spacebefore by default
  ]

\starttext
>
> \input knuth
>
> \quotation{I'm a quoteted text \quotation{within another quoteted text}
> and back.}
>
> \startquote
> \input knuth
> \stopquote
>
> \input knuth
>
> \stoptext
>
> Wolfgang
>
>
>
>

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3600 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: \quotation

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 04:01:25 -0600, Wolfgang Schuster  
<schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com> wrote:

> there is no perfect solution in ConTeXt because the \quotation and the
> \start/stopquotation commands are defined with the same definition and  
> it is
> not possible to disable the quote marks for the one and enable it for the
> other,
> but you can use ConTeXt's mechanism for nested quotations and redefine  
> the
> other one.
>
> \setupdelimitedtext
>   [quotation]
>   [1]
>   [left={\symbol[leftquotation]},
>    right={\symbol[rightquotation]}]
>
> \setupdelimitedtext
>   [quotation]
>   [2]
>   [left={\symbol[leftquote]},
>    right={\symbol[rightquote]}]
>
> \setupdelimitedtext
>   [quote]
>   [location=margin, % paragraph
>    left=,
>    right=,
>    before={\blank[big]},
>    after={\blank[big]}]

Thanks, Wolfgang. This is very helpful, though I must say that, in this  
case, ConTeXt is being a bit obtuse. Maybe an official, dedicated

\start-stopblockquote

command, independent of the other two and with no quotation marks by  
default, is in order here (please, Hans?).

OTOH your illustration gives me ideas for other things; thnx again and all  
the

Best
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

on block quotes

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Dear Hans, wolfgang, and the rest of the gang,

How about adding something like this to the distribution:

================================
\definedelimitedtext
	[blockquote][quote]

\setupdelimitedtext
	[blockquote]
	[location=margin,
      	left=,
	right=,
      	leftmargin=standard,
	]
================================

I'm working on a context utility that I want to distribute when done and  
we need a standard, quotes-empty blockquote mechanism. This way we can  
leave \quote and \quotation alone.

Best wishes
Idris

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 10:25:30 -0600, Idris Samawi Hamid  
<ishamid@colostate.edu> wrote:

> On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 04:01:25 -0600, Wolfgang Schuster
> <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> there is no perfect solution in ConTeXt because the \quotation and the
>> \start/stopquotation commands are defined with the same definition and
>> it is
>> not possible to disable the quote marks for the one and enable it for  
>> the
>> other,
>> but you can use ConTeXt's mechanism for nested quotations and redefine
>> the
>> other one.
>>
>> \setupdelimitedtext
>>   [quotation]
>>   [1]
>>   [left={\symbol[leftquotation]},
>>    right={\symbol[rightquotation]}]
>>
>> \setupdelimitedtext
>>   [quotation]
>>   [2]
>>   [left={\symbol[leftquote]},
>>    right={\symbol[rightquote]}]
>>
>> \setupdelimitedtext
>>   [quote]
>>   [location=margin, % paragraph
>>    left=,
>>    right=,
>>    before={\blank[big]},
>>    after={\blank[big]}]

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: on block quotes

[Wolfgang Schuster]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1042 bytes --]

2007/11/3, Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu>:
>
> Dear Hans, wolfgang, and the rest of the gang,
>
> How about adding something like this to the distribution:


I think this is a goog idea but your definition is a little bit to long.

================================
> \definedelimitedtext
>         [blockquote][quote]


\startvariables all
    blockquote: blockquote
\stopvariables

\definedelimitedtext
   [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation]

\setupdelimitedtext
>         [blockquote]
>         [location=margin,
>         left=,
>         right=,
>         leftmargin=standard,
>         ]


\setupdelimitedtext
  [\v!blockquote]
  [\c!left=,
   \c!right=]

> ================================


location=margin is a default value and set with \definedelimitedtext and
leftmargin=standard is taken from quotation.

I'm working on a context utility that I want to distribute when done and
> we need a standard, quotes-empty blockquote mechanism. This way we can
> leave \quote and \quotation alone.
>
> Best wishes
> Idris
>

Wolfgang

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2308 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: on block quotes

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Dear Wolfgang,
Thank you for your improvements and corrections. I always appreciate your  
lessons!

Best wishes
Idris

> I think this is a goog idea but your definition is a little bit to long.
>
> ================================
>> \definedelimitedtext
>>         [blockquote][quote]
>
>
> \startvariables all
>     blockquote: blockquote
> \stopvariables
>
> \definedelimitedtext
>    [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation]
>
> \setupdelimitedtext
>>         [blockquote]
>>         [location=margin,
>>         left=,
>>         right=,
>>         leftmargin=standard,
>>         ]
>
>
> \setupdelimitedtext
>   [\v!blockquote]
>   [\c!left=,
>    \c!right=]
>
>> ================================
>
>
> location=margin is a default value and set with \definedelimitedtext and
> leftmargin=standard is taken from quotation.
>
> I'm working on a context utility that I want to distribute when done and
>> we need a standard, quotes-empty blockquote mechanism. This way we can
>> leave \quote and \quotation alone.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Idris
>>
>
> Wolfgang

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: on block quotes

[Hans Hagen]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> \definedelimitedtext
>    [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation]
> 
>
> \setupdelimitedtext
>   [\v!blockquote]
>   [\c!left=,
>    \c!right=]

added


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: on block quotes

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:48:37 -0700, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
>> \definedelimitedtext
>>    [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation]
>>
>>
>> \setupdelimitedtext
>>   [\v!blockquote]
>>   [\c!left=,
>>    \c!right=]
>
> added
>

Thank you Hans!

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: on block quotes

[Jesse Alama]

Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes:

> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
>> \definedelimitedtext
>>    [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation]
>> 
>>
>> \setupdelimitedtext
>>   [\v!blockquote]
>>   [\c!left=,
>>    \c!right=]
>
> added

Excellent -- thanks!  If I do a ctxtools --updatecontext, will this be
available?

Jesse

-- 
Jesse Alama (alama@stanford.edu)

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: on block quotes

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:02:29 -0700, Jesse Alama <alama@stanford.edu> wrote:

> Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes:
>
>> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>>
>>> \definedelimitedtext
>>>    [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation]
>>>
>>>
>>> \setupdelimitedtext
>>>   [\v!blockquote]
>>>   [\c!left=,
>>>    \c!right=]
>>
>> added
>
> Excellent -- thanks!  If I do a ctxtools --updatecontext, will this be
> available?

Hi,

Check and compare with the release date of the latest beta on  
pragma-ade.com

Best
-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: on block quotes

[Hans Hagen]

Jesse Alama wrote:
> Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes:
> 
>> Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>>
>>> \definedelimitedtext
>>>    [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation]
>>>
>>>
>>> \setupdelimitedtext
>>>   [\v!blockquote]
>>>   [\c!left=,
>>>    \c!right=]
>> added
> 
> Excellent -- thanks!  If I do a ctxtools --updatecontext, will this be
> available?

no, there will be a current release in sync with a new luatex beta 
release (before the end of the month)

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________