* \quotation
@ 2007-11-01 14:18 Idris Samawi Hamid
2007-11-02 10:01 ` \quotation Wolfgang Schuster
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2007-11-01 14:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Dear gang,
This has bugged me for years but I never said anything since the
workaround is so easy. OTOH I am working on something I'd like to share
with others and an official solution would be better:
\starttext
\input knuth
\startquotation
\input knuth
\stopquotation
\input knuth
\stoptext
I. \start-\stopquotation surrounds the block quote in double-quotes marks.
I don't know about other European languages but in English this is
redundant; I've hardly ever seen block quotes use dbl-quote marks.
We at least need a setup option to turn this off.
II. There should be some default whitespace between the block quote and
the surrounding text, just as \start-stopitemize has. Or at least this
should be configurable in the setups.
If these two are already there (not in the manual) then please let us know
how to set this up. Otherwise could you add configuration options for this?
FYI: Here is what I use
===========
\definestartstop
[quote]
[before={\startnarrower[2*left,2*right]\blank[big]\noindenting},
after={\stopnarrower\blank[big]}]
===========
Best wishes
Idris
--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: \quotation 2007-11-01 14:18 \quotation Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2007-11-02 10:01 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2007-11-02 10:09 ` \quotation Wolfgang Schuster 2007-11-03 16:25 ` \quotation Idris Samawi Hamid 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2007-11-02 10:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2077 bytes --] 2007/11/1, Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu>: > > Dear gang, > > This has bugged me for years but I never said anything since the > workaround is so easy. OTOH I am working on something I'd like to share > with others and an official solution would be better: > > \starttext > \input knuth > \startquotation > \input knuth > \stopquotation > \input knuth > \stoptext > > I. \start-\stopquotation surrounds the block quote in double-quotes marks. > I don't know about other European languages but in English this is > redundant; I've hardly ever seen block quotes use dbl-quote marks. > > We at least need a setup option to turn this off. > > II. There should be some default whitespace between the block quote and > the surrounding text, just as \start-stopitemize has. Or at least this > should be configurable in the setups. > > If these two are already there (not in the manual) then please let us know > how to set this up. Otherwise could you add configuration options for > this? > > FYI: Here is what I use > > =========== > \definestartstop > [quote] > [before={\startnarrower[2*left,2*right]\blank[big]\noindenting}, > after={\stopnarrower\blank[big]}] > =========== > > Best wishes > Idris Hi Idris, there is no perfect solution in ConTeXt because the \quotation and the \start/stopquotation commands are defined with the same definition and it is not possible to disable the quote marks for the one and enable it for the other, but you can use ConTeXt's mechanism for nested quotations and redefine the other one. \setupdelimitedtext [quotation] [1] [left={\symbol[leftquotation]}, right={\symbol[rightquotation]}] \setupdelimitedtext [quotation] [2] [left={\symbol[leftquote]}, right={\symbol[rightquote]}] \setupdelimitedtext [quote] [location=margin, % paragraph left=, right=, before={\blank[big]}, after={\blank[big]}] \starttext \input knuth \quotation{I'm a quoteted text \quotation{within another quoteted text} and back.} \startquote \input knuth \stopquote \input knuth \stoptext Wolfgang [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2683 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: \quotation 2007-11-02 10:01 ` \quotation Wolfgang Schuster @ 2007-11-02 10:09 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2007-11-03 16:25 ` \quotation Idris Samawi Hamid 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2007-11-02 10:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2524 bytes --] 2007/11/2, Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com>: > > > > 2007/11/1, Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu>: > > > > Dear gang, > > > > This has bugged me for years but I never said anything since the > > workaround is so easy. OTOH I am working on something I'd like to share > > with others and an official solution would be better: > > > > \starttext > > \input knuth > > \startquotation > > \input knuth > > \stopquotation > > \input knuth > > \stoptext > > > > I. \start-\stopquotation surrounds the block quote in double-quotes > > marks. > > I don't know about other European languages but in English this is > > redundant; I've hardly ever seen block quotes use dbl-quote marks. > > > > We at least need a setup option to turn this off. > > > > II. There should be some default whitespace between the block quote and > > the surrounding text, just as \start-stopitemize has. Or at least this > > should be configurable in the setups. > > > > If these two are already there (not in the manual) then please let us > > know > > how to set this up. Otherwise could you add configuration options for > > this? > > > > FYI: Here is what I use > > > > =========== > > \definestartstop > > [quote] > > [before={\startnarrower[2*left,2*right]\blank[big]\noindenting}, > > after={\stopnarrower\blank[big]}] > > =========== > > > > Best wishes > > Idris > > > Hi Idris, > > there is no perfect solution in ConTeXt because the \quotation and the > \start/stopquotation commands are defined with the same definition and it > is > not possible to disable the quote marks for the one and enable it for the > other, > but you can use ConTeXt's mechanism for nested quotations and redefine the > other one. > > \setupdelimitedtext > [quotation] > [1] > [left={\symbol[leftquotation]}, > right={\symbol[rightquotation]}] > > \setupdelimitedtext > [quotation] > [2] > [left={\symbol[leftquote]}, > right={\symbol[rightquote]}] > > \setupdelimitedtext > [quote] > [location=margin, % paragraph > left=, > right=, > before={\blank[big]}, > after={\blank[big]}] > This can also be written as \setupdelimitedtext [quote] [location=margin, % paragraph left=, right=, spacebefore=big, %spaceafter=big, % spaceafter is spacebefore by default ] \starttext > > \input knuth > > \quotation{I'm a quoteted text \quotation{within another quoteted text} > and back.} > > \startquote > \input knuth > \stopquote > > \input knuth > > \stoptext > > Wolfgang > > > > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3600 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: \quotation 2007-11-02 10:01 ` \quotation Wolfgang Schuster 2007-11-02 10:09 ` \quotation Wolfgang Schuster @ 2007-11-03 16:25 ` Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-03 17:00 ` on block quotes Idris Samawi Hamid 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2007-11-03 16:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Hans Hagen On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 04:01:25 -0600, Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com> wrote: > there is no perfect solution in ConTeXt because the \quotation and the > \start/stopquotation commands are defined with the same definition and > it is > not possible to disable the quote marks for the one and enable it for the > other, > but you can use ConTeXt's mechanism for nested quotations and redefine > the > other one. > > \setupdelimitedtext > [quotation] > [1] > [left={\symbol[leftquotation]}, > right={\symbol[rightquotation]}] > > \setupdelimitedtext > [quotation] > [2] > [left={\symbol[leftquote]}, > right={\symbol[rightquote]}] > > \setupdelimitedtext > [quote] > [location=margin, % paragraph > left=, > right=, > before={\blank[big]}, > after={\blank[big]}] Thanks, Wolfgang. This is very helpful, though I must say that, in this case, ConTeXt is being a bit obtuse. Maybe an official, dedicated \start-stopblockquote command, independent of the other two and with no quotation marks by default, is in order here (please, Hans?). OTOH your illustration gives me ideas for other things; thnx again and all the Best Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* on block quotes 2007-11-03 16:25 ` \quotation Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2007-11-03 17:00 ` Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-05 12:24 ` Wolfgang Schuster 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2007-11-03 17:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Dear Hans, wolfgang, and the rest of the gang, How about adding something like this to the distribution: ================================ \definedelimitedtext [blockquote][quote] \setupdelimitedtext [blockquote] [location=margin, left=, right=, leftmargin=standard, ] ================================ I'm working on a context utility that I want to distribute when done and we need a standard, quotes-empty blockquote mechanism. This way we can leave \quote and \quotation alone. Best wishes Idris On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 10:25:30 -0600, Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu> wrote: > On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 04:01:25 -0600, Wolfgang Schuster > <schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com> wrote: > >> there is no perfect solution in ConTeXt because the \quotation and the >> \start/stopquotation commands are defined with the same definition and >> it is >> not possible to disable the quote marks for the one and enable it for >> the >> other, >> but you can use ConTeXt's mechanism for nested quotations and redefine >> the >> other one. >> >> \setupdelimitedtext >> [quotation] >> [1] >> [left={\symbol[leftquotation]}, >> right={\symbol[rightquotation]}] >> >> \setupdelimitedtext >> [quotation] >> [2] >> [left={\symbol[leftquote]}, >> right={\symbol[rightquote]}] >> >> \setupdelimitedtext >> [quote] >> [location=margin, % paragraph >> left=, >> right=, >> before={\blank[big]}, >> after={\blank[big]}] -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: on block quotes 2007-11-03 17:00 ` on block quotes Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2007-11-05 12:24 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2007-11-09 5:01 ` Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-13 21:48 ` Hans Hagen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2007-11-05 12:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1042 bytes --] 2007/11/3, Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu>: > > Dear Hans, wolfgang, and the rest of the gang, > > How about adding something like this to the distribution: I think this is a goog idea but your definition is a little bit to long. ================================ > \definedelimitedtext > [blockquote][quote] \startvariables all blockquote: blockquote \stopvariables \definedelimitedtext [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation] \setupdelimitedtext > [blockquote] > [location=margin, > left=, > right=, > leftmargin=standard, > ] \setupdelimitedtext [\v!blockquote] [\c!left=, \c!right=] > ================================ location=margin is a default value and set with \definedelimitedtext and leftmargin=standard is taken from quotation. I'm working on a context utility that I want to distribute when done and > we need a standard, quotes-empty blockquote mechanism. This way we can > leave \quote and \quotation alone. > > Best wishes > Idris > Wolfgang [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2308 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --] ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: on block quotes 2007-11-05 12:24 ` Wolfgang Schuster @ 2007-11-09 5:01 ` Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-13 21:48 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2007-11-09 5:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Dear Wolfgang, Thank you for your improvements and corrections. I always appreciate your lessons! Best wishes Idris > I think this is a goog idea but your definition is a little bit to long. > > ================================ >> \definedelimitedtext >> [blockquote][quote] > > > \startvariables all > blockquote: blockquote > \stopvariables > > \definedelimitedtext > [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation] > > \setupdelimitedtext >> [blockquote] >> [location=margin, >> left=, >> right=, >> leftmargin=standard, >> ] > > > \setupdelimitedtext > [\v!blockquote] > [\c!left=, > \c!right=] > >> ================================ > > > location=margin is a default value and set with \definedelimitedtext and > leftmargin=standard is taken from quotation. > > I'm working on a context utility that I want to distribute when done and >> we need a standard, quotes-empty blockquote mechanism. This way we can >> leave \quote and \quotation alone. >> >> Best wishes >> Idris >> > > Wolfgang -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: on block quotes 2007-11-05 12:24 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2007-11-09 5:01 ` Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2007-11-13 21:48 ` Hans Hagen 2007-11-14 2:45 ` Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-14 19:02 ` Jesse Alama 1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2007-11-13 21:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > \definedelimitedtext > [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation] > > > \setupdelimitedtext > [\v!blockquote] > [\c!left=, > \c!right=] added ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: on block quotes 2007-11-13 21:48 ` Hans Hagen @ 2007-11-14 2:45 ` Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-14 19:02 ` Jesse Alama 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2007-11-14 2:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:48:37 -0700, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote: > Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > >> \definedelimitedtext >> [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation] >> >> >> \setupdelimitedtext >> [\v!blockquote] >> [\c!left=, >> \c!right=] > > added > Thank you Hans! -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: on block quotes 2007-11-13 21:48 ` Hans Hagen 2007-11-14 2:45 ` Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2007-11-14 19:02 ` Jesse Alama 2007-11-14 21:39 ` Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-14 22:36 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Jesse Alama @ 2007-11-14 19:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ntg-context Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes: > Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > >> \definedelimitedtext >> [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation] >> >> >> \setupdelimitedtext >> [\v!blockquote] >> [\c!left=, >> \c!right=] > > added Excellent -- thanks! If I do a ctxtools --updatecontext, will this be available? Jesse -- Jesse Alama (alama@stanford.edu) ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: on block quotes 2007-11-14 19:02 ` Jesse Alama @ 2007-11-14 21:39 ` Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-14 22:36 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2007-11-14 21:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:02:29 -0700, Jesse Alama <alama@stanford.edu> wrote: > Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes: > >> Wolfgang Schuster wrote: >> >>> \definedelimitedtext >>> [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation] >>> >>> >>> \setupdelimitedtext >>> [\v!blockquote] >>> [\c!left=, >>> \c!right=] >> >> added > > Excellent -- thanks! If I do a ctxtools --updatecontext, will this be > available? Hi, Check and compare with the release date of the latest beta on pragma-ade.com Best -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: on block quotes 2007-11-14 19:02 ` Jesse Alama 2007-11-14 21:39 ` Idris Samawi Hamid @ 2007-11-14 22:36 ` Hans Hagen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Hans Hagen @ 2007-11-14 22:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Jesse Alama wrote: > Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes: > >> Wolfgang Schuster wrote: >> >>> \definedelimitedtext >>> [\v!blockquote][\v!quotation] >>> >>> >>> \setupdelimitedtext >>> [\v!blockquote] >>> [\c!left=, >>> \c!right=] >> added > > Excellent -- thanks! If I do a ctxtools --updatecontext, will this be > available? no, there will be a current release in sync with a new luatex beta release (before the end of the month) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2007-11-14 22:36 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2007-11-01 14:18 \quotation Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-02 10:01 ` \quotation Wolfgang Schuster 2007-11-02 10:09 ` \quotation Wolfgang Schuster 2007-11-03 16:25 ` \quotation Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-03 17:00 ` on block quotes Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-05 12:24 ` Wolfgang Schuster 2007-11-09 5:01 ` Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-13 21:48 ` Hans Hagen 2007-11-14 2:45 ` Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-14 19:02 ` Jesse Alama 2007-11-14 21:39 ` Idris Samawi Hamid 2007-11-14 22:36 ` Hans Hagen
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