From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/41499 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Idris Samawi Hamid" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Arabic with LuaTeX vs. XeTeX Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:25:05 -0600 Organization: Colorado State University Message-ID: References: Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1213054059 14590 80.91.229.12 (9 Jun 2008 23:27:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 23:27:39 +0000 (UTC) To: "mailing list for ConTeXt users" Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Tue Jun 10 01:28:21 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1K5qmb-0003QU-Tr for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:28:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320A31FC82; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:27:08 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 22424-02-5; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:26:22 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E40311FC20; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:26:20 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E29E21FC32 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:26:04 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 21972-01-6 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:25:16 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 2C30F1FC1B for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:25:14 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: (qmail 3398 invoked by uid 1006); 9 Jun 2008 23:25:13 -0000 Original-Received: from ishamid@colostate.edu by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.1.4. 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Processed in 0.397167 secs); 09 Jun 2008 23:25:13 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.6) by -v with SMTP; 9 Jun 2008 23:25:13 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 2024 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2008 23:25:10 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO your-b27fb1c401) (75.104.82.252) by -v with SMTP; 9 Jun 2008 23:25:10 -0000 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.24 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:41499 Archived-At: Hi Otared and all, On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 03:13:06 -0600, Otared Kavian wrote: > I just read the thread started by Burak Emir about "Typesetting Arabic > today", and tried to typeset the sample sent by Idris Samawi Hamid. > One of the Arabic or Persian fonts that I have and LuaTeX can find is > Nadeem (working on Mac OS X 10.5.3), but what I get after typesetting > is the following attached PDF: all the characters are typeset with > their isolated form. However typestting the same text with XeConTeXt > or XeTeX gives a nice result. As Khaled and Wolfgang already intimated, the problem is that Nadeem is not an OpenType font, but rather AAT. XeTeX is mainly Mac-based so it's natural that it supports AAT. It should not be too hard to overload GSUB and GPOS features for this particular font using the fea file overload feature of luatex (not sure if that has been fixed.) I looked at the AAT code, and saved an fea file using FontForge: but the contextual analysis is not there, so I suspect that AAT fonts depend on something like uniscribe for certain basic features. We (=Hans) need to know what that is. But at this stage of development, only pure OpenType fonts will be supported out of the box. For example: Traditional Arabic, which comes with XP, has OpenType tables but depends on Uniscribe instead of OpenType for, eg, making marks exceptions to the contextual analysis. Since the mark exception was not added to the GSUB table, voweled text appears unjoined in Trad. Arabic processed by luaTeX. I suppose we (=Hans) could add some "spell-checking" to the otf analyzer, but that's dangerous and needs some careful thought. Maybe we can come up with various "spell-checking" options that could be turned on and off, so that old-technology (Nadeem is 1998), platform-dependent (like Nadeem and Trad. Ar.) fonts can be used. In any case, we want to stay as platform-independent as possible. So for AAT, we may need to wait at least till someone (maybe one of you?) can come up with a spec so that we can implement a cross-platform solution for AAT. Best wishes Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________