ConTeXt, Framemaker, and InDesign

ConTeXt, Framemaker, and InDesign

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Dear gang,

There has been some discussion on the list lately comparing ConTeXt with  
InDesign. Are there any Framemaker users on the list? I'm interested in  
comparisons between ConTeXt and Framemaker, with cross-comparisons with  
InDesign as appropriate.

What does ConTeXt have that Framemaker does not?

What does Framemaker have that ConTeXt does not? (svg integration comes to  
mind -- there's been some svg discussion here the last couple of days).

 From what I know of Framemaker -- structured processing etc, it seems that  
would be a more a~propos comparison with ConTeXt than InDesign.

Eventually I would like to establish a wiki page with detailed and  
accurate comparisons between ConTeXt, InDesign, Framemaker, and perhaps  
other DTP applications as well. I even plan to get my hands on the  
"competition" so I can get more 1st hands knowledge for my own edification.

Best wishes
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: ConTeXt, Framemaker, and InDesign

[Charles P. Schaum]

Oh, I WISH I had Framemaker...

But this might be interesting. Setting up margin notes in InDesign is
considered to be an "Intermediate to advanced feature." It may well be
possible to have more recurrent structured elements in Framemaker, but I
would suggest that only TeX and friends can do something like structured
recurrent text elements that might vary according to anything more than
a trivial algorithm.

I dunno. \inmargin seemed pretty simple to me... I think that my
designer may be jealous. ;-)

On Mon, 2008-06-30 at 10:53 -0600, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> Dear gang,
> 
> There has been some discussion on the list lately comparing ConTeXt with  
> InDesign. Are there any Framemaker users on the list? I'm interested in  
> comparisons between ConTeXt and Framemaker, with cross-comparisons with  
> InDesign as appropriate.
> 
> What does ConTeXt have that Framemaker does not?
> 
> What does Framemaker have that ConTeXt does not? (svg integration comes to  
> mind -- there's been some svg discussion here the last couple of days).
> 
>  From what I know of Framemaker -- structured processing etc, it seems that  
> would be a more a~propos comparison with ConTeXt than InDesign.
> 
> Eventually I would like to establish a wiki page with detailed and  
> accurate comparisons between ConTeXt, InDesign, Framemaker, and perhaps  
> other DTP applications as well. I even plan to get my hands on the  
> "competition" so I can get more 1st hands knowledge for my own edification.
> 
> Best wishes
> Idris
> 

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: ConTeXt, Framemaker, and InDesign

[Martin Schröder]

2008/6/30 Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu>:
> What does ConTeXt have that Framemaker does not?

I don't know about ConTeXt, but I know that something like LaTeX's
\include/\includeonly was a new feature of Frame 7 (from 2002). And
I'd be surprised if it's math support doesn't suck compared to TeX's. :-)

> What does Framemaker have that ConTeXt does not? (svg integration comes to
> mind -- there's been some svg discussion here the last couple of days).

tagged pdf export, Quark & Pagemaker import, ...

>  From what I know of Framemaker -- structured processing etc, it seems that
> would be a more a~propos comparison with ConTeXt than InDesign.

FrameMaker 7 <-> InDesign 2: http://dcortesi.home.mindspring.com/ID-FM.htm

I've heard that FM is a very good XML editor.

Best
   Martom
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Re: ConTeXt, Framemaker, and InDesign

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Hi Martin,

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:18:37 -0600, Martin Schröder <martin@oneiros.de>  
wrote:

> 2008/6/30 Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu>:
>> What does ConTeXt have that Framemaker does not?
>
> I don't know about ConTeXt, but I know that something like LaTeX's
> \include/\includeonly was a new feature of Frame 7 (from 2002).

What is \include/\includeonly?

[Since switching to Context six years ago-- wow, has it really been that  
long? -- I have not looked back]

Best wishes
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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Re: ConTeXt, Framemaker, and InDesign

[Aditya Mahajan]

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On Mon, 30 Jun 2008, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:

> Hi Martin,
>
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:18:37 -0600, Martin Schröder <martin@oneiros.de>
> wrote:
>
>> 2008/6/30 Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu>:
>>> What does ConTeXt have that Framemaker does not?
>>
>> I don't know about ConTeXt, but I know that something like LaTeX's
>> \include/\includeonly was a new feature of Frame 7 (from 2002).
>
> What is \include/\includeonly?
>

Suppose you are writing a book with 15 chapters, and it takes a long time 
to compile your chapters. In LaTeX, you can include each chapter using 
\include {name of file} and then add a command \includeonly{a few 
chapters} on the top of your file. Only the chapters specified by 
\includeonly are included. So, it saves a lot of time in compiling the 
file. (I think there is also a command to exclude specific chapters).

It is roughly similar to compiling only a component of a big project in 
ConTeXt. However, I feel that the latex version works better since it 
maintains the numbering of chapters, etc.

For example, in latex if I include chapter 3 of a big book, its chapter 
number will be 3, and all the cross references to material outside that 
chapter will be correct.

In Context, if I compile the component containing chapter 3, its number 
will start from 1. I can get correct cross references by using 
\usereferences (and ignore the duplicate references warning), but the 
numbering of the compiled component is incorrect. This is one are where I 
wish context had better support.

Note that latex's method is not perfect. \include starts a new page, but 
that way it can ensure that the materical of included file is somewhat 
isolated with rest of the material. Context's \component does not start a 
new page, which is often times useful.

Aditya

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: ConTeXt, Framemaker, and InDesign

[Hans Hagen]

Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> 
>> Hi Martin,
>>
>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:18:37 -0600, Martin Schröder <martin@oneiros.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 2008/6/30 Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu>:
>>>> What does ConTeXt have that Framemaker does not?
>>>
>>> I don't know about ConTeXt, but I know that something like LaTeX's
>>> \include/\includeonly was a new feature of Frame 7 (from 2002).
>>
>> What is \include/\includeonly?
>>
> 
> Suppose you are writing a book with 15 chapters, and it takes a long 
> time to compile your chapters. In LaTeX, you can include each chapter 
> using \include {name of file} and then add a command \includeonly{a few 
> chapters} on the top of your file. Only the chapters specified by 
> \includeonly are included. So, it saves a lot of time in compiling the 
> file. (I think there is also a command to exclude specific chapters).
> 
> It is roughly similar to compiling only a component of a big project in 
> ConTeXt. However, I feel that the latex version works better since it 
> maintains the numbering of chapters, etc.
> 
> For example, in latex if I include chapter 3 of a big book, its chapter 
> number will be 3, and all the cross references to material outside that 
> chapter will be correct.
> 
> In Context, if I compile the component containing chapter 3, its number 
> will start from 1. I can get correct cross references by using 
> \usereferences (and ignore the duplicate references warning), but the 
> numbering of the compiled component is incorrect. This is one are where 
> I wish context had better support.
> 
> Note that latex's method is not perfect. \include starts a new page, but 
> that way it can ensure that the materical of included file is somewhat 
> isolated with rest of the material. Context's \component does not start 
> a new page, which is often times useful.

for that purpose there has always been

\setuphead[chapter][incrementnumber=somefilename] % whole doc file

(just as there are parallel documents and such)

but i haven't used it in 10 years; maybe i pick up this feature for mkiv

Hans


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Re: ConTeXt, Framemaker, and InDesign

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:56:22 -0600, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

>> In Context, if I compile the component containing chapter 3, its number
>> will start from 1. I can get correct cross references by using
>> \usereferences (and ignore the duplicate references warning), but the
>> numbering of the compiled component is incorrect. This is one are where
>> I wish context had better support.
>>
>> Note that latex's method is not perfect. \include starts a new page, but
>> that way it can ensure that the materical of included file is somewhat
>> isolated with rest of the material. Context's \component does not start
>> a new page, which is often times useful.

> for that purpose there has always been
> \setuphead[chapter][incrementnumber=somefilename] % whole doc file
> (just as there are parallel documents and such)

> but i haven't used it in 10 years; maybe i pick up this feature for mkiv

I hope so, that would be really useful!

(so many undocumented features... we really need to start working on that  
book and shake the tree...)

Best wishes
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: ConTeXt, Framemaker, and InDesign

[Aditya Mahajan]

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On Tue, 1 Jul 2008, Hans Hagen wrote:

> for that purpose there has always been
>
> \setuphead[chapter][incrementnumber=somefilename] % whole doc file
>
> (just as there are parallel documents and such)

I cannot get this feature to work. See the attached sample files.

I have a product file, prod.tex, two components, chap1.tex, chap2.tex and 
an evironment file containing \setuphead[chapter][incrementnumber=prod].

I first compile the whole product, then I compile chap2, but the chapter 
number is 1.

Aditya

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Re: ConTeXt, Framemaker, and InDesign

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:18 AM, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
>> for that purpose there has always been
>>
>> \setuphead[chapter][incrementnumber=somefilename] % whole doc file
>>
>> (just as there are parallel documents and such)
>
> I cannot get this feature to work. See the attached sample files.
>
> I have a product file, prod.tex, two components, chap1.tex, chap2.tex and an
> evironment file containing \setuphead[chapter][incrementnumber=prod].
>
> I first compile the whole product, then I compile chap2, but the chapter
> number is 1.

I think you can make two products where the second product starts with
the last number from the first product but not tested from my side.

\startproduct prod2

\setuphead[chapter][incrementnumber=prod1]

...

\stopproduct

Regards
Wolfgang
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