From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/47620 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?SWRyaXMgU2FtYXdpIEhhbWlkINin2K/YsdmK2LMg2LPZhdin2YjZiiDYrQ==?= =?utf-8?B?2KfZhdiv?= Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Making necessary OpenType features on by default Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:08:29 -0700 Organization: Colorado State University Message-ID: References: <20090220183922.GA10583@khaled-laptop> <499FE87C.3070602@wxs.nl> <20090222205231.GA16381@khaled-laptop> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"; DelSp="yes" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1235344295 13145 80.91.229.12 (22 Feb 2009 23:11:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:11:35 +0000 (UTC) To: "mailing list for ConTeXt users" Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon Feb 23 00:12:50 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LbNV4-0004Mn-Rb for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:12:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6005E1FC06; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:11:17 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 16853-07-2; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:10:19 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22B301FBC1; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:10:19 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09DC11FBC6 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:10:11 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 19218-01 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:09:26 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from filter1-til.mf.surf.net (filter1-til.mf.surf.net [194.171.167.217]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89FEC1FBC1 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:09:26 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from trueband.net (director.trueband.net [216.163.120.8]) by filter1-til.mf.surf.net (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with SMTP id n1MN9Op1023921 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:09:25 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 10832 invoked by uid 1006); 22 Feb 2009 23:09:22 -0000 Original-Received: from ishamid@colostate.edu by rs0 by uid 1003 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (spamassassin: 3.1.4. Clear:SA:0(3.3/100.0):. Processed in 0.337102 secs); 22 Feb 2009 23:09:22 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO trueband.net) (172.16.0.20) by -v with SMTP; 22 Feb 2009 23:09:22 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 27927 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2009 23:09:20 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO your-b27fb1c401) (ishamid@75.104.85.3) by -v with SMTP; 22 Feb 2009 23:09:20 -0000 In-Reply-To: <20090222205231.GA16381@khaled-laptop> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.50 (Win32) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=216.163.120.8; country=US; region=VA; city=Herndon; postalcode=20171; latitude=38.9266; longitude=-77.3936; metrocode=511; areacode=703; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=38.9266,-77.3936&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 183617702 - dc006f391b8f X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 194.171.167.217 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:47620 Archived-At: On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:54:51 -0700, Khaled Hosny wrote: >>> http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otfntdev/arabicot/features.htm >>> >>> :-) >> >> watch the "The standard order for applying Arabic features encoded in >> OpenType fonts" ... an earlier mkiv otf handler did this but then we >> found out that it violates the otf 'any order possible' rule so now we >> do just the order as we encounter it (and even then it took us a while >> to figure out where/how to avoid interferences); so ... it's up to the >> font designer (or technician) > > IIRC, the 'ccmp' should be applied before any other lookup, the rest are > applied as they are ordered in the font, at least this makes sense more. It is not the order of the features, but the order of the lookups that really counts here. So, more precisely, the lookups in ccmp should be defined in the font before all other lookups. See also http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otfntdev/arabicot/shaping.htm http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otfntdev/arabicot/default.htm >> now, having init, medi, fina, isol, rlig enabled might be the default, >> but for instance arabtype output looks much better when instead of rlig >> we use calt/clig etc so, in that case the defaults would bot be the best >> choice; again an argument for a database approach > > Arabic Typesetting is a quit a special case font, though I believe that > 'calt' and 'clig' should be on by default for any font. That's just it, there are so many exceptional cases it's not trivial to define a rule. Again, Scheherazade seems appropriate as a place to start... I will try to find some time in the next month to work on this, or someone can start and Hans and I can complete the module. >> there are even fonts out there that have the right gsub/gpos info but >> lack the feature being listed in the script/lang dictionary which is >> complicating live even more; maybe we should assume that the renderers >> of ms and adobe have some additional built in heuristics of using >> specific fonts > > Any links to such fonts? Looks interesting. Hans may be referring to hybrids like Traditional Arabic.... Best wishes Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________