Indentation within footnotes

Indentation within footnotes

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

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Dear gang,

In the attached example: For a given footnote I would like for the first  
line of each paragraph after paragraph one to be indented. What do I need  
to do to get this right? Thanks in advance, and

Best wishes
Idris

============
\setupindenting[big,yes]
\setupheads[indentnext=no]
\setupnotation[footnote][command={\setupindenting[big,yes]},indenting=yes,next]

\starttext
\startsubject[title=Indentation Within a Footnote]
\input ward
\startfootnote
\input ward

\input ward

\input ward
\stopfootnote

\input ward
\stopsubject
\stoptext
============
-- 
Idris Samawi Hamid
Professor of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Indentation within footnotes

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 07:42:11 -0600, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد  
<ishamid@colostate.edu> wrote:

> Dear gang,
>
> In the attached example: For a given footnote I would like for the first
> line of each paragraph after paragraph one to be indented. What do I need
> to do to get this right? Thanks in advance, and
>
> Best wishes
> Idris
>
> ============
> \setupindenting[big,yes]
> \setupheads[indentnext=no]
> \setupnotation[footnote][command={\setupindenting[big,yes]},indenting=yes,next]
>
> \starttext
> \startsubject[title=Indentation Within a Footnote]
> \input ward
> \startfootnote
> \input ward
>
> \input ward
>
> \input ward
> \stopfootnote
>
> \input ward
> \stopsubject
> \stoptext
> ============

\setupnotation[footnote][indenting=yes,next]
\setupfootnotedefinition[before={\setupindenting[big,yes]}]

will give me what I want. But can anyone explain why *both* commands are  
needed? Toggling these two commands doesn't work.

Best wishes
Idris

-- 
Idris Samawi Hamid
Professor of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Indentation within footnotes

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 03/15/2015 03:16 PM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد wrote:
> [...]
> \setupnotation[footnote][indenting=yes,next]
> \setupfootnotedefinition[before={\setupindenting[big,yes]}]
> 
> will give me what I want. But can anyone explain why *both* commands are  
> needed? Toggling these two commands doesn't work.

Hi Idris,

this does what you need:

\setupindenting[big,yes]
\startsetups[footnote:indenting]
    \setupindenting[big,yes]
\stopsetups
\setupheads[indentnext=no]
\setupnote[footnote][setups=footnote:indenting]
\setupnotation[footnote][indenting=yes,next]

\starttext
\startsubject[title=Indentation Within a Footnote]
\input ward
\startfootnote
\input ward

\input ward

\input ward
\stopfootnote

The explanation (you are a ConTeXt expert and I’m only a long-term
newbie :-)) is that setups are required.

Setups belong to \setupnote and indenting belongs to \setupnotation.

I hope it helps,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Indentation within footnotes

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

Hi Pablo,

On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 10:29:25 -0600, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:

> On 03/15/2015 03:16 PM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد wrote:
>> [...]
>> \setupnotation[footnote][indenting=yes,next]
>> \setupfootnotedefinition[before={\setupindenting[big,yes]}]
>>
>> will give me what I want. But can anyone explain why *both* commands are
>> needed? Toggling these two commands doesn't work.

<snip>

> \setupindenting[big,yes]
> \startsetups[footnote:indenting]
>     \setupindenting[big,yes]
> \stopsetups
> \setupheads[indentnext=no]
> \setupnote[footnote][setups=footnote:indenting]
> \setupnotation[footnote][indenting=yes,next]

Fortunately, it's much easier that that ;-)

% Argument to after= controls vertical space between notes
\setupnotation
[footnote][before={\setupwhitespace[big]},indenting={yes,big},after={\blank[small]}]

As mentioned in the other email, the first "next" is apparently already  
built in, no no need for it.

> (you are a ConTeXt expert and I’m only a long-term newbie :-))

Well, all users are long-term ConTeXt newbies, now and forever... The only  
exception is Wolfgang ;-)

And I still suspect Wolfgang is just Hans in disguise :D

Best wishes
Idris
-- 
Idris Samawi Hamid
Professor of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Indentation within footnotes

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 03/15/2015 07:36 PM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 10:29:25 -0600, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> On 03/15/2015 03:16 PM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> will give me what I want. But can anyone explain why *both* commands are
>>> needed? Toggling these two commands doesn't work.
>>
>> \setupindenting[big,yes]
>> \startsetups[footnote:indenting]
>>     \setupindenting[big,yes]
>> \stopsetups
>> \setupheads[indentnext=no]
>> \setupnote[footnote][setups=footnote:indenting]
>> \setupnotation[footnote][indenting=yes,next]
> 
> Fortunately, it's much easier that that ;-)
> 
> % Argument to after= controls vertical space between notes
> \setupnotation
> [footnote][before={\setupwhitespace[big]},indenting={yes,big},after={\blank[small]}]

Hi Idris,

I’m not sure whether this is clearer to me. It seems that your approach
enables indenting by setting vertical space in paragraphs.

I may be missing something, since I’d bet that the setups for notes
approach is clearer.

>> (you are a ConTeXt expert and I’m only a long-term newbie :-))
> 
> Well, all users are long-term ConTeXt newbies, now and forever... The only  
> exception is Wolfgang ;-)
> 
> And I still suspect Wolfgang is just Hans in disguise :D

Good point.

It is Hans in his Superman disguise , :D.


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Indentation within footnotes

[Alan BRASLAU]

> > And I still suspect Wolfgang is just Hans in disguise :D  
> 
> It is Hans in his Superman disguise , :D.

The ConTeXt meetings are a great opportunity to ask BOTH Hans and
Wolfgang everything that you might have wanted to know about ConTeXt
(and were afraid to ask on the mailing list).

Alan
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Re: Indentation within footnotes

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 15:07:57 -0600, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:

> I’m not sure whether this is clearer to me. It seems that your approach
> enables indenting by setting vertical space in paragraphs.
> I may be missing something, since I’d bet that the setups for notes
> approach is clearer.

Didn't mean to confuse you, all you need is

\setupnotation[footnote][indenting={yes,big}] % no "next"

The other two options were just to show other things you could do with  
\setupnotation. Thanks again for your help and

Best wishes
Idris
-- 
Idris Samawi Hamid
Professor of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Indentation within footnotes

[Pablo Rodriguez]

 03/15/2015 10:37 PM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 15:07:57 -0600, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
> 
>> I’m not sure whether this is clearer to me. It seems that your approach
>> enables indenting by setting vertical space in paragraphs.
>> I may be missing something, since I’d bet that the setups for notes
>> approach is clearer.
> 
> Didn't mean to confuse you, all you need is
> 
> \setupnotation[footnote][indenting={yes,big}] % no "next"

Many thanks for the explanation, Idris.

I forgot to add big to indenting in \setupnotation.

This was the reason why it didn’t work. And why setups aren’t needed there.

Best


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: Indentation within footnotes

[Wolfgang Schuster]

> Am 15.03.2015 um 14:42 schrieb Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد <ishamid@colostate.edu>:
> 
> Dear gang,
> 
> In the attached example: For a given footnote I would like for the first line of each paragraph after paragraph one to be indented. What do I need to do to get this right? Thanks in advance, and
> 
> Best wishes
> Idris
> 
> ============
> \setupindenting[big,yes]
> \setupheads[indentnext=no]
> \setupnotation[footnote][command={\setupindenting[big,yes]},indenting=yes,next]

1. You have to put braces around the arguments for the indenting key.

2. Change the notation setup to \setupnotation[footnote][indenting={yes,big}] because notes ignore the global indent value.

Wolfgang
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Re: Indentation within footnotes

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 03/15/2015 05:55 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> Am 15.03.2015 um 14:42 schrieb Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد:
>>
>> Dear gang,
>>
>> In the attached example: For a given footnote I would like for the
>> first line of each paragraph after paragraph one to be indented. What do
>> I need to do to get this right? Thanks in advance, and
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Idris
>>
>> ============
>> \setupindenting[big,yes]
>> \setupheads[indentnext=no]
>> \setupnotation[footnote][command={\setupindenting[big,yes]},indenting=yes,next]
> 
> 1. You have to put braces around the arguments for the indenting key.
> 
> 2. Change the notation setup to
> \setupnotation[footnote][indenting={yes,big}] because notes ignore the
> global indent value.

Hi Wolfgang,

with the following sample:

\setupindenting[big,yes]
\startsetups[footnote:indenting]
    \setupindenting[big,yes]
\stopsetups
\setupheads[indentnext=no]
\setupnote[footnote][setups=footnote:indenting]
\setupnotation[footnote][indenting={yes}]
\starttext
\input ward\footnote{\dorecurse{3}{\input ward\par}}

\input ward
\stoptext

it works as expected. Changing indenting to {yes, next} only the third
paragraph in the footnote is indented.

Isn’t it a bug?

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Indentation within footnotes

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

Hi Pablo,

On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 11:24:47 -0600, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:

> Changing indenting to {yes, next} only the third
> paragraph in the footnote is indented.

My guess is that the first "next" is already hardwired into the footnote  
mechanism. If you remove the "next" it should work. So this works here:

% \setupnotation[footnote][indenting={yes,big,next}]
\setupnotation[footnote][indenting={yes,big}]

When I had the "next" I got the same result as you.

Best wishes
Idris
-- 
Idris Samawi Hamid
Professor of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Indentation within footnotes

[Wolfgang Schuster]

> Am 15.03.2015 um 19:19 schrieb Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد <ishamid@colostate.edu>:
> 
> Hi Pablo,
> 
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 11:24:47 -0600, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:
> 
>> Changing indenting to {yes, next} only the third
>> paragraph in the footnote is indented.
> 
> My guess is that the first "next" is already hardwired into the footnote mechanism. If you remove the "next" it should work. So this works here:
> 
> % \setupnotation[footnote][indenting={yes,big,next}]
> \setupnotation[footnote][indenting={yes,big}]
> 
> When I had the "next" I got the same result as you.


I will show below the reason for the unexpected behaviour of the next keyword. What you should
keep in mind is that context uses the same mechanism for enumerations, description and note
entries.

In older versions of the mechanism indentation was set before the title and content where placed
but this produces unwanted results when you used the “next” keyword because the title itself
was recognised as first paragraph (see page 1). After moving the indentation setting between
the title and the content (see page 2) the “next” keyword produced the expected output.

The problem is now when make the title part of the first paragraph because the indentation
is changed until we start the second paragraph and the “next” keyword applies now to the third
paragraph.

%%%% begin example
\setuppapersize[A5]

\starttext

% Page 1

\start \setupindenting[yes,medium,next]

\noindent{\bf Description Title}

\input knuth

\stop

\page

% Page 2

\start

\noindent{\bf Description Title}

\setupindenting[yes,medium,next]

\input knuth

\stop

\page

% Page 3

\start

\noindent{\bf Description Title}
\setupindenting[yes,medium,next]
\input knuth

\stop

\stoptext
%%%% end example

Wolfgang
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Re: Indentation within footnotes

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 15:43:47 -0600, Wolfgang Schuster  
<schuster.wolfgang@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>> Am 15.03.2015 um 19:19 schrieb Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد  
>> <ishamid@colostate.edu>:
>>
>> Hi Pablo,
>>
>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 11:24:47 -0600, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Changing indenting to {yes, next} only the third
>>> paragraph in the footnote is indented.
>>
>> My guess is that the first "next" is already hardwired into the  
>> footnote mechanism. If you remove the "next" it should work. So this  
>> works here:
>>
>> % \setupnotation[footnote][indenting={yes,big,next}]
>> \setupnotation[footnote][indenting={yes,big}]
>>
>> When I had the "next" I got the same result as you.
>
>
> I will show below the reason for the unexpected behaviour of the next  
> keyword. What you should
> keep in mind is that context uses the same mechanism for enumerations,  
> description and note
> entries.
>
> In older versions of the mechanism indentation was set before the title  
> and content where placed
> but this produces unwanted results when you used the “next” keyword  
> because the title itself
> was recognised as first paragraph (see page 1). After moving the  
> indentation setting between
> the title and the content (see page 2) the “next” keyword produced the  
> expected output.
>
> The problem is now when make the title part of the first paragraph  
> because the indentation
> is changed until we start the second paragraph and the “next” keyword  
> applies now to the third
> paragraph.
>
> %%%% begin example
> \setuppapersize[A5]
>
> \starttext
>
> % Page 1
>
> \start \setupindenting[yes,medium,next]
>
> \noindent{\bf Description Title}
>
> \input knuth
>
> \stop
>
> \page
>
> % Page 2
>
> \start
>
> \noindent{\bf Description Title}
>
> \setupindenting[yes,medium,next]
>
> \input knuth
>
> \stop
>
> \page
>
> % Page 3
>
> \start
>
> \noindent{\bf Description Title}
> \setupindenting[yes,medium,next]
> \input knuth
>
> \stop
>
> \stoptext
> %%%% end example

Thanks, Wolfgang -- or is it Hans? ;-) -- for this very instructive  
example!

I just made one change: \noindentation instead of \noindent (my  
understanding is that we're supposed to avoid very low-level indenting  
commands).

So the first paragraph of a footnote insertion contains an implicit title,  
or does the footnote numeral function as title? Anyway, very interesting!  
Thanks again and

Best wishes
Idris
-- 
Idris Samawi Hamid
Professor of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Indentation within footnotes

[Wolfgang Schuster]

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> Am 15.03.2015 um 22:58 schrieb Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد <ishamid@colostate.edu>:
> 
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 15:43:47 -0600, Wolfgang Schuster <schuster.wolfgang@gmail.com <mailto:schuster.wolfgang@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> Am 15.03.2015 um 19:19 schrieb Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد <ishamid@colostate.edu>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Pablo,
>>> 
>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 11:24:47 -0600, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Changing indenting to {yes, next} only the third
>>>> paragraph in the footnote is indented.
>>> 
>>> My guess is that the first "next" is already hardwired into the footnote mechanism. If you remove the "next" it should work. So this works here:
>>> 
>>> % \setupnotation[footnote][indenting={yes,big,next}]
>>> \setupnotation[footnote][indenting={yes,big}]
>>> 
>>> When I had the "next" I got the same result as you.
>> 
>> 
>> I will show below the reason for the unexpected behaviour of the next keyword. What you should
>> keep in mind is that context uses the same mechanism for enumerations, description and note
>> entries.
>> 
>> In older versions of the mechanism indentation was set before the title and content where placed
>> but this produces unwanted results when you used the “next” keyword because the title itself
>> was recognised as first paragraph (see page 1). After moving the indentation setting between
>> the title and the content (see page 2) the “next” keyword produced the expected output.
>> 
>> The problem is now when make the title part of the first paragraph because the indentation
>> is changed until we start the second paragraph and the “next” keyword applies now to the third
>> paragraph.
>> 
>> %%%% begin example
>> \setuppapersize[A5]
>> 
>> \starttext
>> 
>> % Page 1
>> 
>> \start \setupindenting[yes,medium,next]
>> 
>> \noindent{\bf Description Title}
>> 
>> \input knuth
>> 
>> \stop
>> 
>> \page
>> 
>> % Page 2
>> 
>> \start
>> 
>> \noindent{\bf Description Title}
>> 
>> \setupindenting[yes,medium,next]
>> 
>> \input knuth
>> 
>> \stop
>> 
>> \page
>> 
>> % Page 3
>> 
>> \start
>> 
>> \noindent{\bf Description Title}
>> \setupindenting[yes,medium,next]
>> \input knuth
>> 
>> \stop
>> 
>> \stoptext
>> %%%% end example
> 
> Thanks, Wolfgang -- or is it Hans? ;-) -- for this very instructive example!
> 
> I just made one change: \noindentation instead of \noindent (my understanding is that we're supposed to avoid very low-level indenting commands).
> 
> So the first paragraph of a footnote insertion contains an implicit title, or does the footnote numeral function as title? Anyway, very interesting!

The footnote number is placed as title.

Wolfgang


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