Feature request for export: Interactive Notes

Feature request for export: Interactive Notes

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

Dear gang,

  I've spent a considerable amount of time over the past month trying to
  master the art of xhtml output. We are close to being able to use ConTeXt
  as a replacement for markdown in, e.g., WordPress. Indeed, I plan to
  present the results of this experiment (porting an entire academic article
  to xhtml and WP) in a future article for one of the TeX journals...

  There is at least one crucial feature that's still needed. Perhaps it is
  already supported: If so, it would be much appreciated if someone kindly
  explained how to do it.

  In a web post (or epub), one wants to be able to interact back and forth
  with notes. Here is how markdown (extra) does it:

  ========Input========
  That's some text with a footnote.[^1]

  [^1]: And that's the footnote.

        That's the second paragraph of the note.

  More main text
  ========Output========
<p>That's some text with a footnote.<sup id="fnref:1"><a href="#fn:1"
  rel="footnote">1</a></sup></p>
  <p>More main text</p>

  <div class="footnotes">
  <hr />
  <ol>
  <li id="fn:1">
  <p>And that's the footnote.</p>
  <p>That's the second paragraph of the note.&nbsp;<a href="#fnref:1"
  rev="footnote">&#8617;</a></p>
  </li>
  </ol>
  </div>
  =====================

  The resulting html file is attached. '&#8617;' corresponds to U+21A9 (↩).
  See also

https://michelf.ca/projects/php-markdown/extra/#footnotes

  Now we can of course already export xhtml footnotes from ConTeXt but there
  will be no interactive links. In the current project, there are 77
  footnotes; I had to add the links manually to get the output to do what we
  wanted.

  [Also note that it makes much more sense to export the footnotes as
  endnotes, particularly for long blog posts.]

  Is there already a way to get done automatically?

  In any case: This feature is a must-do in my humble opinion. Aside from a
  few other export bugs, this is one of the few features still needed so
  that ConTeXt can completely replace markdown for (advanced) web posts.
  Thanks is advance and

  Best wishes
  Idris

-- 
Idris Samawi Hamid, Professor
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Feature request for export: Interactive Notes

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2548 bytes --]

+ attachment

On Fri, 24 Apr 2015 18:36:12 -0600, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس   سماوي حامد  
<ishamid@colostate.edu> wrote:

> Dear gang,
>
>   I've spent a considerable amount of time over the past month trying to
>   master the art of xhtml output. We are close to being able to use  
> ConTeXt
>   as a replacement for markdown in, e.g., WordPress. Indeed, I plan to
>   present the results of this experiment (porting an entire academic  
> article
>   to xhtml and WP) in a future article for one of the TeX journals...
>
>   There is at least one crucial feature that's still needed. Perhaps it  
> is
>   already supported: If so, it would be much appreciated if someone  
> kindly
>   explained how to do it.
>
>   In a web post (or epub), one wants to be able to interact back and  
> forth
>   with notes. Here is how markdown (extra) does it:
>
>   ========Input========
>   That's some text with a footnote.[^1]
>
>   [^1]: And that's the footnote.
>
>         That's the second paragraph of the note.
>
>   More main text
>   ========Output========
> <p>That's some text with a footnote.<sup id="fnref:1"><a href="#fn:1"
>   rel="footnote">1</a></sup></p>
>   <p>More main text</p>
>
>   <div class="footnotes">
>   <hr />
>   <ol>
>   <li id="fn:1">
>   <p>And that's the footnote.</p>
>   <p>That's the second paragraph of the note.&nbsp;<a href="#fnref:1"
>   rev="footnote">&#8617;</a></p>
>   </li>
>   </ol>
>   </div>
>   =====================
>
>   The resulting html file is attached. '&#8617;' corresponds to U+21A9  
> (↩).
>   See also
>
> https://michelf.ca/projects/php-markdown/extra/#footnotes
>
>   Now we can of course already export xhtml footnotes from ConTeXt but  
> there
>   will be no interactive links. In the current project, there are 77
>   footnotes; I had to add the links manually to get the output to do  
> what we
>   wanted.
>
>   [Also note that it makes much more sense to export the footnotes as
>   endnotes, particularly for long blog posts.]
>
>   Is there already a way to get done automatically?
>
>   In any case: This feature is a must-do in my humble opinion. Aside  
> from a
>   few other export bugs, this is one of the few features still needed so
>   that ConTeXt can completely replace markdown for (advanced) web posts.
>   Thanks is advance and
>
>   Best wishes
>   Idris
>


-- 
Idris Samawi Hamid, Professor
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

[-- Attachment #2: test-md-footnote.html --]
[-- Type: text/html, Size: 32545 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 485 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Feature request for export: Interactive Notes

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 04/25/2015 02:36 AM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس   سماوي حامد wrote:
> Dear gang,
> 
>   I've spent a considerable amount of time over the past month trying to
>   master the art of xhtml output. We are close to being able to use ConTeXt
>   as a replacement for markdown in, e.g., WordPress.

Hi Idris,

Markdown or pandoc? Markdown is the markup format, pandoc is the tool.

Replacing pandoc with ConTeXt to generate XHTML or ePub files has a
downside.

As far as I know, ConTeXt is much slower for this task. With a sample
from pandoc (http://pandoc.org/epub.html#a-real-book), it takes between
5 and 3 seconds on my computer (depending whether pandoc is loaded in
memory or not).

With pandoc you have also more formats to write to.

>   Indeed, I plan topresent the results of this experiment (porting an
>   entire academic article to xhtml and WP) in a future article for one of
>   the TeX journals...

I’m really interested in reading it. Also because I’m trying to use
ConTeXt to generate high-quality PDF documents from XHTML files
generated by pandoc ;-).

>   Now we can of course already export xhtml footnotes from ConTeXt but there
>   will be no interactive links. In the current project, there are 77
>   footnotes; I had to add the links manually to get the output to do what we
>   wanted.

I’m afraid that missing links for footnotes is a bug,

>   [Also note that it makes much more sense to export the footnotes as
>   endnotes, particularly for long blog posts.]

I think that footnotes are related to pages. You can only have proper
footnotes in a page.

Just in case it might help,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Feature request for export: Interactive Notes

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

Hi Pablo,

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 03:05:07 -0600, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:

> On 04/25/2015 02:36 AM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس   سماوي حامد wrote:
>> Dear gang,
>>
>>   I've spent a considerable amount of time over the past month trying to
>>   master the art of xhtml output. We are close to being able to use  
>> ConTeXt
>>   as a replacement for markdown in, e.g., WordPress.
>
> Hi Idris,
>
> Markdown or pandoc? Markdown is the markup format, pandoc is the tool.

In this case we're talking about markdown qua source. In the WordPress  
case, pandoc of course is not needed: WP can either use md directly or (as  
I prefer) an editor such as MarkdownPad~2 will export the html for you,  
which you can then paste to WP.

> Replacing pandoc with ConTeXt to generate XHTML or ePub files has a
> downside.
>
> As far as I know, ConTeXt is much slower for this task.

Absolutely, by far. But see below.

> With a sample
> from pandoc (http://pandoc.org/epub.html#a-real-book), it takes between
> 5 and 3 seconds on my computer (depending whether pandoc is loaded in
> memory or not).

Sure, and as you know I've done an entire small book using pandoc  
(docx->md; then md->epub; md->context->pdf)

> With pandoc you have also more formats to write to.

Yes, but the goal here is much narrower: to use ConTeXt as source. Perhaps  
if pandoc supported ConTeXt input I might have gone that route, but I  
don't see that happening anytime soon...

For simple tasks the markdown/pandoc route is excellent. But as the  
typesetting needs become more advanced (e.g., bibliographies), markdown as  
source makes less and less sense. And pandoc export to epub has  
limitations, as you and I have discussed before.

Yes, the ConTeXt route is slower, and the learning curve has been  
considerably longer than I anticipated. But the resulting workflow is  
*much* more flexible for serious academic typesetting and export tasks.

>>   Indeed, I plan topresent the results of this experiment (porting an
>>   entire academic article to xhtml and WP) in a future article for one  
>> of
>>   the TeX journals...
>
> I’m really interested in reading it. Also because I’m trying to use
> ConTeXt to generate high-quality PDF documents from XHTML files
> generated by pandoc ;-).

Ah, I'll be interested in seeing that workflow as well ;-)

>>   Now we can of course already export xhtml footnotes from ConTeXt but  
>> there
>>   will be no interactive links. In the current project, there are 77
>>   footnotes; I had to add the links manually to get the output to do  
>> what we
>>   wanted.
>
> I’m afraid that missing links for footnotes is a bug,

Hmm, what do you mean exactly?

>>   [Also note that it makes much more sense to export the footnotes as
>>   endnotes, particularly for long blog posts.]
>
> I think that footnotes are related to pages. You can only have proper
> footnotes in a page.

This is why I said that it makes much more sense to export the footnotes  
as endnotes. At the end of, e.g., a blog post you'll have a section for  
footnotes/endnotes. In the context source I had to make a derivative  
version and use something like

\startsubsubject[title=Endnotes]
\placefootnotes
\stopsubsubject

[Aside: I wonder if there is a way in ConTeXt to setup \placefootnotes  
etc. in a mode so that it gets invoked only in the export. Will explore  
this for the article.]

Some crude regular expressions helped me to edit ConTeXt's *div.xhtml  
output; with scripting one should be able to do it all automatically. But  
my scripting skill set is limited-to-nonexistent so the part of the task  
that couldn't fit easily into a regex sub I had to do manually.

Best wishes
Idris
-- 
Idris Samawi Hamid
Professor of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Feature request for export: Interactive Notes

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 04/25/2015 02:19 PM, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>   Indeed, I plan to present the results of this experiment (porting an
>>>   entire academic article to xhtml and WP) in a future article for one  
>>>   of the TeX journals...
>>
>> I’m really interested in reading it. Also because I’m trying to use
>> ConTeXt to generate high-quality PDF documents from XHTML files
>> generated by pandoc ;-).
> 
> Ah, I'll be interested in seeing that workflow as well ;-)

Hi Idris,

I’m working on an article on this topic. But without bibligraphies, I
have never used myself in ConTeXt or in pandoc :-(.

>>>   Now we can of course already export xhtml footnotes from ConTeXt but  
>>>   there will be no interactive links. In the current project, there are 77
>>>   footnotes; I had to add the links manually to get the output to do  
>>>   what we wanted.
>>
>> I’m afraid that missing links for footnotes is a bug,
> 
> Hmm, what do you mean exactly?

If footnotes in ePub (or XHTML) have no links, how is the user supposed
to handle them?

I must be missing something, because I think footnotes are hardly
accesible in XHTML without links.

> This is why I said that it makes much more sense to export the footnotes  
> as endnotes. At the end of, e.g., a blog post you'll have a section for  
> footnotes/endnotes. In the context source I had to make a derivative  
> version and use something like
> 
> \startsubsubject[title=Endnotes]
> \placefootnotes
> \stopsubsubject
> 
> [Aside: I wonder if there is a way in ConTeXt to setup \placefootnotes  
> etc. in a mode so that it gets invoked only in the export. Will explore  
> this for the article.]

How about the system mode: \doifmode{*export}{\placefootnotes}?

I discovered this (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Modes#System_modes)
after the reply from Hans to my own question.

Best,


Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Feature request for export: Interactive Notes

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

Hi Pablo,

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 13:19:47 -0600, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:

> > Hmm, what do you mean exactly?

> If footnotes in ePub (or XHTML) have no links, how is the user supposed
> to handle them?

> I must be missing something, because I think footnotes are hardly
> accesible in XHTML without links.

I think we're both saying the same thing in different ways: I'm calling it  
a missing/needed feature (unless I'm missing something already there);  
you're calling it a bug. Either way, it's something emphatically needed  
for this workflow to be efficient.

Best wishes
Idris

PS. You can see the outcome of the workflow here:

http://www.walayah.org/blog/shaykh-aḥmad-ibn-zayniddin-al-aḥsaʾi-part-1-life-travels-character-and-charisma

If you examine the page source, you'll see an xhtml div container; that  
comes from context. The footnote links I added manually.
-- 
Idris Samawi Hamid
Professor of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Feature request for export: Interactive Notes

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

Hi Pablo,

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 13:19:47 -0600, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:

> > Hmm, what do you mean exactly?

> If footnotes in ePub (or XHTML) have no links, how is the user supposed
> to handle them?

> I must be missing something, because I think footnotes are hardly
> accesible in XHTML without links.

I think we're both saying the same thing in different ways: I'm calling it
a missing/needed feature (unless I'm missing something already there);
you're calling it a bug. Either way, it's something emphatically needed
for this workflow to be efficient.

Best wishes
Idris

PS. You can see the outcome of the workflow here:

http://www.walayah.org/blog/shaykh-aḥmad-ibn-zayniddin-al-aḥsaʾi-part-1-life-travels-character-and-charisma

If you examine the page source, you'll see an xhtml div container; that
comes from context. The footnote links I added manually.
-- 
Idris Samawi Hamid
Professor of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Feature request for export: Interactive Notes

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 13:19:47 -0600, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:

>> [Aside: I wonder if there is a way in ConTeXt to setup \placefootnotes
>> etc. in a mode so that it gets invoked only in the export. Will explore
>> this for the article.]

> How about the system mode: \doifmode{*export}{\placefootnotes}?

> I discovered this (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Modes#System_modes)
> after the reply from Hans to my own question.

Ok, thanks Pablo; will explore this as well, especially after I start  
writing the journal article.

Best wishes
Idris
-- 
Idris Samawi Hamid
Professor of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Feature request for export: Interactive Notes

[=?iso-8859-6-i?B?SWRyaXMgU2FtYXdpIEhhbWlkIMfP0erTINPlx+jqIM3H5c8=?=]

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 13:19:47 -0600, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:

>> [Aside: I wonder if there is a way in ConTeXt to setup \placefootnotes
>> etc. in a mode so that it gets invoked only in the export. Will explore
>> this for the article.]

> How about the system mode: \doifmode{*export}{\placefootnotes}?

> I discovered this (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Modes#System_modes)
> after the reply from Hans to my own question.

Ok, thanks Pablo; will explore this as well, especially after I start
writing the journal article.

Best wishes
Idris
-- 
Idris Samawi Hamid
Professor of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________