\bigl \bigr \big problems

\bigl \bigr \big problems

[Mikael Persson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 622 bytes --]

Dear list,

I have problems with \big, \bigl, \Bigl, ...

%% Example
\def\foo#1{\type{#1}: #1}

\starttext
\foo{$|x|^n$} % as expected.

\foo{$\bigl|x^n\bigr|$} % expect bigger bars

\foo{$\big|x^n\big|$} % expect bigger bars

\foo{$\Bigl|x^n\Bigr|$} % too small again (but bigger than \big)

\foo{$\biggl|x^n\biggr|$} % too small again (but bigger than \big)

\foo{$\Biggl|x^n\Biggr|$} % too small again (but bigger than \big)

\foo{$\|x^n\|$} % expect two bars

\foo{$\bigl\|x^n\bigr\|$} % expect two bars and bigger ones
\stoptext
%%% Stop example

It gives the attached pdf file with latest minimals and mkiv.

Mikael

[-- Attachment #2: bartest.pdf --]
[-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 18713 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 486 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: \bigl \bigr \big problems

[Hans Hagen]

On 6-4-2010 10:30, Mikael Persson wrote:
> Dear list,
>
> I have problems with \big, \bigl, \Bigl, ...
>
> %% Example
> \def\foo#1{\type{#1}: #1}
>
> \starttext
> \foo{$|x|^n$} % as expected.
>
> \foo{$\bigl|x^n\bigr|$} % expect bigger bars
>
> \foo{$\big|x^n\big|$} % expect bigger bars
>
> \foo{$\Bigl|x^n\Bigr|$} % too small again (but bigger than \big)
>
> \foo{$\biggl|x^n\biggr|$} % too small again (but bigger than \big)
>
> \foo{$\Biggl|x^n\Biggr|$} % too small again (but bigger than \big)
>
> \foo{$\|x^n\|$} % expect two bars
>
> \foo{$\bigl\|x^n\bigr\|$} % expect two bars and bigger ones
> \stoptext
> %%% Stop example
>
> It gives the attached pdf file with latest minimals and mkiv.

will be fixed in next beta ... i needed to make a few more virtal shapes 
(in the size chain)


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: \bigl \bigr \big problems

[Mikael Persson]

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> On 6-4-2010 10:30, Mikael Persson wrote:
>>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> I have problems with \big, \bigl, \Bigl, ...
>>
>> %% Example
>> \def\foo#1{\type{#1}: #1}
>>
>> \starttext
>> \foo{$|x|^n$} % as expected.
>>
>> \foo{$\bigl|x^n\bigr|$} % expect bigger bars
>>
>> \foo{$\big|x^n\big|$} % expect bigger bars
>>
>> \foo{$\Bigl|x^n\Bigr|$} % too small again (but bigger than \big)
>>
>> \foo{$\biggl|x^n\biggr|$} % too small again (but bigger than \big)
>>
>> \foo{$\Biggl|x^n\Biggr|$} % too small again (but bigger than \big)
>>
>> \foo{$\|x^n\|$} % expect two bars
>>
>> \foo{$\bigl\|x^n\bigr\|$} % expect two bars and bigger ones
>> \stoptext
>> %%% Stop example
>>
>> It gives the attached pdf file with latest minimals and mkiv.
>
> will be fixed in next beta ... i needed to make a few more virtal shapes (in
> the size chain)

Great Hans, thanks! Looking forward to the new beta...

Mikael
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: \bigl \bigr \big problems

[Mikael Persson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1945 bytes --]

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Mikael Persson <mickep@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>> On 6-4-2010 10:30, Mikael Persson wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear list,
>>>
>>> I have problems with \big, \bigl, \Bigl, ...
>>>
>>> %% Example
>>> \def\foo#1{\type{#1}: #1}
>>>
>>> \starttext
>>> \foo{$|x|^n$} % as expected.
>>>
>>> \foo{$\bigl|x^n\bigr|$} % expect bigger bars
>>>
>>> \foo{$\big|x^n\big|$} % expect bigger bars
>>>
>>> \foo{$\Bigl|x^n\Bigr|$} % too small again (but bigger than \big)
>>>
>>> \foo{$\biggl|x^n\biggr|$} % too small again (but bigger than \big)
>>>
>>> \foo{$\Biggl|x^n\Biggr|$} % too small again (but bigger than \big)
>>>
>>> \foo{$\|x^n\|$} % expect two bars
>>>
>>> \foo{$\bigl\|x^n\bigr\|$} % expect two bars and bigger ones
>>> \stoptext
>>> %%% Stop example
>>>
>>> It gives the attached pdf file with latest minimals and mkiv.
>>
>> will be fixed in next beta ... i needed to make a few more virtal shapes (in
>> the size chain)
>
> Great Hans, thanks! Looking forward to the new beta...
>
> Mikael
>

Ok Hans, with the beta from yesterday the absolute values change size,
but there are some problems still:

1) The absolute value bars are not just "straight lines" when using
\big and friends, but som kind of line that is thicker in the middle.
(zoom i on attached pdf)
2) The horizontal spacing in the \big version seems to be bigger than
for the \bigl/\bigr version (and similar for \Big vs \Bigl/\Bigr). I'd
expect the same spacing (the l and r are just there for the writer to
easily see what is left and what is right).
3) I'd expect that \| gives double bars, like the || one get from
\Vert and not |. This is not so (see the attached file). Moreover, it
is not possible to do \bigl\Vert right now to get a bigger ||.

Mikael

PS Compilde with
ConTeXt  ver: 2010.04.07 17:58 MKIV  fmt: 2010.4.8  int: english/english
This is LuaTeX, Version beta-0.60.0-2010040422

[-- Attachment #2: bartest.tex --]
[-- Type: application/x-tex, Size: 615 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: bartest.pdf --]
[-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 18747 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #4: Type: text/plain, Size: 486 bytes --]

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: \bigl \bigr \big problems

[Hans Hagen]

On 8-4-2010 7:40, Mikael Persson wrote:

> Ok Hans, with the beta from yesterday the absolute values change size,
> but there are some problems still:
>
> 1) The absolute value bars are not just "straight lines" when using
> \big and friends, but som kind of line that is thicker in the middle.
> (zoom i on attached pdf)

this is because lm has no such characters so they are made from the 
smaller ones (extensible characters)

in traditional lm this can go unniticed (depends a bit in the exact 
definition but in mkii you will see two stacked | just not touching but 
in mkiv we use overlap - which is custom in opentype anyway); so what 
you observe is an artefact of the viewer - it might be that future 
versions of luatex deal better with this as it relates somewhat with how 
things are dealt with in the backend but you will observe similar 
effects in pdftex

in an earlier version i used rules but then found out that the | has 
round tops (ok, i could use pdf literals to draw lines but not today)

> 2) The horizontal spacing in the \big version seems to be bigger than
> for the \bigl/\bigr version (and similar for \Big vs \Bigl/\Bigr). I'd
> expect the same spacing (the l and r are just there for the writer to
> easily see what is left and what is right).

repaired .. (i also added \plainbigmathmode

> 3) I'd expect that \| gives double bars, like the || one get from
> \Vert and not |. This is not so (see the attached file). Moreover, it
> is not possible to do \bigl\Vert right now to get a bigger ||.

i've added double bars so this works:

$\biggl\Vert x^n\biggr\Vert$
$\biggl{||} x^n\biggr{||}$
$\biggl|\biggl| x^n\biggr|\biggr|$

there will be a new beta later today or tomorrow

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: \bigl \bigr \big problems

[Mikael Persson]

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Mikael Persson <mickep@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>> On 8-4-2010 7:40, Mikael Persson wrote:
>>
>>> Ok Hans, with the beta from yesterday the absolute values change size,
>>> but there are some problems still:
>>>
>>> 1) The absolute value bars are not just "straight lines" when using
>>> \big and friends, but som kind of line that is thicker in the middle.
>>> (zoom i on attached pdf)
>>
>> this is because lm has no such characters so they are made from the smaller
>> ones (extensible characters)
>>
>> in traditional lm this can go unniticed (depends a bit in the exact
>> definition but in mkii you will see two stacked | just not touching but in
>> mkiv we use overlap - which is custom in opentype anyway); so what you
>> observe is an artefact of the viewer - it might be that future versions of
>> luatex deal better with this as it relates somewhat with how things are
>> dealt with in the backend but you will observe similar effects in pdftex
>>
>> in an earlier version i used rules but then found out that the | has round
>> tops (ok, i could use pdf literals to draw lines but not today)
>>
>>> 2) The horizontal spacing in the \big version seems to be bigger than
>>> for the \bigl/\bigr version (and similar for \Big vs \Bigl/\Bigr). I'd
>>> expect the same spacing (the l and r are just there for the writer to
>>> easily see what is left and what is right).
>>
>> repaired .. (i also added \plainbigmathmode
>>
>>> 3) I'd expect that \| gives double bars, like the || one get from
>>> \Vert and not |. This is not so (see the attached file). Moreover, it
>>> is not possible to do \bigl\Vert right now to get a bigger ||.
>>
>> i've added double bars so this works:
>>
>> $\biggl\Vert x^n\biggr\Vert$
>> $\biggl{||} x^n\biggr{||}$
>> $\biggl|\biggl| x^n\biggr|\biggr|$
>>
>> there will be a new beta later today or tomorrow
>>
>> Hans

Thanks for you answer and explanation. Is there a reason why you do
not add \| to get double bars? This is the way it is done in LaTeX
(OK, not really an argument). I'm just curious.

Mikael
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: \bigl \bigr \big problems

[Hans Hagen]

On 8-4-2010 10:37, Mikael Persson wrote:

> Thanks for you answer and explanation. Is there a reason why you do
> not add \| to get double bars? This is the way it is done in LaTeX
> (OK, not really an argument). I'm just curious.

we never had \| in mkii and in mkiv it's equivalent to | (just like \$ 
is $ and not two $'s) .. i can find no reason for an escaped | being two 
|'s

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________