New user here!

New user here!

[John Was]

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Good day, Contexters

I've been using plain TeX for many years (EmTeX, if anyone can remember
that, and latterly XeTeX), but my motivation for getting acquainted with
ConText, rather late in life, is the need to produce tagged PDFs that will
be accessible to the visually impaired (generally using an audio reader),
and I understand (or at least hope) that ConText can help with that.

I'm only just getting started with the *Not so Short Introduction*, and of
course have many questions which I think/hope I will be able to answer
myself from the documentation:  I've not managed to load pstricks or edmac,
for example, but this must be possible, and some primitives such as
\baselineskip seem to have disappeared, together with the font-call system
I'm used to:

\font\umirtenpointsevenfive =
"MinionPro-Regular:+onum:mapping=tex-text:letterspace=1.6" at 10.75pt


All that will come as I read the instructions, but what I'm most interested
to achieve is tagging that will not only produce the usual column of
bookmarks at the left-hand side but will also allow an audio reader to read
such things as alt-text for illustrations and, crucially, read a heavily
footnoted text in the correct order.  For this I take it that the footnotes
will have to be tagged in a special way, allowing visually impaired readers
either to suppress them as the text is read out, or else to include them at
the point where the cue occurs, then revert back to the main text.  With my
XeTeX-produced PDFs an audio reader will simply read all of the main text
on a page, then the footnotes (the last of which may be split between
pages), and then start again on the next page - clearly annoying and
unacceptable to those who can't see the PDF.

I'd be most grateful to be pointed in the right direction - or is what I've
outlined simply not achievable?

Best wishes

John  *🇪🇺 * Слава Україні!
* 🇺🇦*


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[NTG-context] Re: New user here!

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 6/14/25 12:37, John Was wrote:
> Good day, Contexters

Hi John,

welcome to the mailing list.

> I've been using plain TeX for many years (EmTeX, if anyone can remember
> that, and latterly XeTeX), but my motivation for getting acquainted with
> ConText, rather late in life, is the need to produce tagged PDFs that
> will be accessible to the visually impaired (generally using an audio
> reader), and I understand (or at least hope) that ConText can help with
> that.

PDF tagging is being added to ConTeXt. This means that some features may
need to be added yet.

> I'm only just getting started with the /Not so Short Introduction/, and
> of course have many questions which I think/hope I will be able to
> answer myself from the documentation:  I've not managed to load pstricks
> or edmac,

As for pstricks (never used it), I have just found that there is a
module `m-pstrick', but it doesn’t work with LuaMetaTeX.

I couldn’t make it work with LuaTeX either (sample from
https://mailman.ntg.nl/archives/list/ntg-context@ntg.nl/message/RJR7MRTPR7S35OH4KWAWIOAMY3CRF5UB/).

edmac is almost three decades old. If you want
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wujastyk/edmac/refs/heads/main/Wujastyk%20and%20Lavagnino_Edmac317%20book_1996.pdf#page=84,
this should be achievable with ConTeXt (no modules needed).

> for example, but this must be possible, and some primitives
> such as \baselineskip seem to have disappeared

LuaMetaTeX happens to have a primitive with the same name,
https://www.pragma-ade.nl/general/manuals/luametatex.pdf#page=93.

> together with the fontcall system I'm used to:
> 
> \font\umirtenpointsevenfive = "MinionPro-Regular:+onum:mapping=tex-
> text:letterspace=1.6" at 10.75pt

Not clear to me what the second command (after `\font`) means in plain
English.

> [...] With my XeTeX-produced PDFs an audio
> reader will simply read all of the main text on a page, then the
> footnotes (the last of which may be split between pages), and then start
> again on the next page - clearly annoying and unacceptable to those who
> can't see the PDF.

This is probably due to a poorly tagged PDF document (my guess).

> I'd be most grateful to be pointed in the right direction - or is
> what I've outlined simply not achievable?

I think LuaLaTeX may achieve that too (for your info).

Not sure whether our tagging is that far now (with notes).

I hope it helps,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: New user here!

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 14.06.2025 um 15:40 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context:
> On 6/14/25 12:37, John Was wrote:
>> Good day, Contexters
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> welcome to the mailing list.
> 
>> [...]
> 
> As for pstricks (never used it), I have just found that there is a
> module `m-pstrick', but it doesn’t work with LuaMetaTeX.
> 
> I couldn’t make it work with LuaTeX either (sample from
> https://mailman.ntg.nl/archives/list/ntg-context@ntg.nl/message/RJR7MRTPR7S35OH4KWAWIOAMY3CRF5UB/).

pstricks uses postscript which isn't supported with pdftex, luatex etc.

> edmac is almost three decades old. If you want
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wujastyk/edmac/refs/heads/main/Wujastyk%20and%20Lavagnino_Edmac317%20book_1996.pdf#page=84,
> this should be achievable with ConTeXt (no modules needed).
> 
>> for example, but this must be possible, and some primitives
>> such as \baselineskip seem to have disappeared
> 
> LuaMetaTeX happens to have a primitive with the same name,
> https://www.pragma-ade.nl/general/manuals/luametatex.pdf#page=93.

\baselineskip is the primitive used with \setupinterlinespace

>> together with the fontcall system I'm used to:
>>
>> \font\umirtenpointsevenfive = "MinionPro-Regular:+onum:mapping=tex-
>> text:letterspace=1.6" at 10.75pt
> 
> Not clear to me what the second command (after `\font`) means in plain
> English.

The context version is

\definefont [umirtenpointsevenfive] [file:MinionPro-Regular*<featureset> 
at 10.75pt]

and it creates the font switch \umirtenpointsevenfive like the xetex 
version.

Wolfgang

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: New user here!

[John Was]

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Dear Pablo

Thanks for the quick response.  I'm only just starting and many of the
questions, as I say, will answer themselves when I get into the
documentation properly.  I'm sure pstricks will be workable
(\usemodule[pstricks] doesn't generate an error, but when you actually try
to use pstricks it fails - but there will be another way).  Edmac is not
likely to be needed for the books I have in mind, but it is essential for
editions that I typeset from time to time with XeTeX and I don't think
anything else will give me the same control (surprisingly, in ConText it
seems to halt on encountering \newinsert - another TeX primitive that I
often use for other purposes but which must have a differently named
equivalent in Context).

\umirtenpointsevenfive  is just my own invented name forthe  MinionPro
typeface at 10.75pt with the features that you saw in my example (old-style
numerals etc.) - but I'm sure Context's own system of calling specific font
sizes will become clear to me shortly.

All that aside, it is definitely the tagging that I want to get working -
my XeTeX-produced PDFs have no tagging, and automated tagging tools produce
absolutely nothing - that won't be acceptable to repositories such as
Perspectivia, which now quite rightly insists on PDFs that are compliant
with the latest accessibility legislation.

I will try not to bombard the list with childish questions, though - there
is much I need to learn quietly on my own before I can get a successfully
formatted (and hopefully tagged) chapter, at which point I will no doubt
need help with fine-tuning the output.

Best wishes

John  *🇪🇺 * Слава Україні!
* 🇺🇦*


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On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 at 14:41, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context <
ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:

> On 6/14/25 12:37, John Was wrote:
> > Good day, Contexters
>
> Hi John,
>
> welcome to the mailing list.
>
> > I've been using plain TeX for many years (EmTeX, if anyone can remember
> > that, and latterly XeTeX), but my motivation for getting acquainted with
> > ConText, rather late in life, is the need to produce tagged PDFs that
> > will be accessible to the visually impaired (generally using an audio
> > reader), and I understand (or at least hope) that ConText can help with
> > that.
>
> PDF tagging is being added to ConTeXt. This means that some features may
> need to be added yet.
>
> > I'm only just getting started with the /Not so Short Introduction/, and
> > of course have many questions which I think/hope I will be able to
> > answer myself from the documentation:  I've not managed to load pstricks
> > or edmac,
>
> As for pstricks (never used it), I have just found that there is a
> module `m-pstrick', but it doesn’t work with LuaMetaTeX.
>
> I couldn’t make it work with LuaTeX either (sample from
>
> https://mailman.ntg.nl/archives/list/ntg-context@ntg.nl/message/RJR7MRTPR7S35OH4KWAWIOAMY3CRF5UB/
> ).
>
> edmac is almost three decades old. If you want
>
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wujastyk/edmac/refs/heads/main/Wujastyk%20and%20Lavagnino_Edmac317%20book_1996.pdf#page=84
> ,
> this should be achievable with ConTeXt (no modules needed).
>
> > for example, but this must be possible, and some primitives
> > such as \baselineskip seem to have disappeared
>
> LuaMetaTeX happens to have a primitive with the same name,
> https://www.pragma-ade.nl/general/manuals/luametatex.pdf#page=93.
>
> > together with the fontcall system I'm used to:
> >
> > \font\umirtenpointsevenfive = "MinionPro-Regular:+onum:mapping=tex-
> > text:letterspace=1.6" at 10.75pt
>
> Not clear to me what the second command (after `\font`) means in plain
> English.
>
> > [...] With my XeTeX-produced PDFs an audio
> > reader will simply read all of the main text on a page, then the
> > footnotes (the last of which may be split between pages), and then start
> > again on the next page - clearly annoying and unacceptable to those who
> > can't see the PDF.
>
> This is probably due to a poorly tagged PDF document (my guess).
>
> > I'd be most grateful to be pointed in the right direction - or is
> > what I've outlined simply not achievable?
>
> I think LuaLaTeX may achieve that too (for your info).
>
> Not sure whether our tagging is that far now (with notes).
>
> I hope it helps,
>
> Pablo
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
> archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
> wiki     : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: New user here!

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 14.06.2025 um 16:04 schrieb John Was:
> Dear Pablo
> 
> Thanks for the quick response.  I'm only just starting and many of the 
> questions, as I say, will answer themselves when I get into the 
> documentation properly.  I'm sure pstricks will be workable 
> (\usemodule[pstricks] doesn't generate an error, but when you actually 
> try to use pstricks it fails - but there will be another way).  Edmac is 
> not likely to be needed for the books I have in mind, but it is 
> essential for editions that I typeset from time to time with XeTeX and I 
> don't think anything else will give me the same control (surprisingly, 
> in ConText it seems to halt on encountering \newinsert - another TeX 
> primitive that I often use for other purposes but which must have a 
> differently named equivalent in Context).

Context is like latex a macro package with its own interface and support 
for footnotes, floats etc.

Unless you know what you're doing and the side effects with contexts own 
mechanism you shouldn't use primitives like \insert.

The pstricks module isn't supported anymore and even in the past it 
worked only when you used postscript as output format.

Wolfgang

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: New user here!

[John Was]

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Dear Wolfgang

Many thanks - especially for the syntax for font calls, which I'm sure I
would have got to eventually but not without a bit of swearing, I fear...

I don't mind learning another graphics package - I'm no expert in Pstricks
in any case, but I often find it useful for drawing fairly straightforward
lines, circles, etc.  For edition work I use the tree module (rather
clumsily) to produce diagrams of manuscript descendancy and relation, but
I'm not envisaging using ConTexT for that kind of text.

Best wishes

John  *🇪🇺 * Слава Україні!
* 🇺🇦*


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On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 at 15:04, Wolfgang Schuster <
wolfgang.schuster.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

> Am 14.06.2025 um 15:40 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context:
> > On 6/14/25 12:37, John Was wrote:
> >> Good day, Contexters
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > welcome to the mailing list.
> >
> >> [...]
> >
> > As for pstricks (never used it), I have just found that there is a
> > module `m-pstrick', but it doesn’t work with LuaMetaTeX.
> >
> > I couldn’t make it work with LuaTeX either (sample from
> >
> https://mailman.ntg.nl/archives/list/ntg-context@ntg.nl/message/RJR7MRTPR7S35OH4KWAWIOAMY3CRF5UB/
> ).
>
> pstricks uses postscript which isn't supported with pdftex, luatex etc.
>
> > edmac is almost three decades old. If you want
> >
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wujastyk/edmac/refs/heads/main/Wujastyk%20and%20Lavagnino_Edmac317%20book_1996.pdf#page=84
> ,
> > this should be achievable with ConTeXt (no modules needed).
> >
> >> for example, but this must be possible, and some primitives
> >> such as \baselineskip seem to have disappeared
> >
> > LuaMetaTeX happens to have a primitive with the same name,
> > https://www.pragma-ade.nl/general/manuals/luametatex.pdf#page=93.
>
> \baselineskip is the primitive used with \setupinterlinespace
>
> >> together with the fontcall system I'm used to:
> >>
> >> \font\umirtenpointsevenfive = "MinionPro-Regular:+onum:mapping=tex-
> >> text:letterspace=1.6" at 10.75pt
> >
> > Not clear to me what the second command (after `\font`) means in plain
> > English.
>
> The context version is
>
> \definefont [umirtenpointsevenfive] [file:MinionPro-Regular*<featureset>
> at 10.75pt]
>
> and it creates the font switch \umirtenpointsevenfive like the xetex
> version.
>
> Wolfgang
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
> archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
> wiki     : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: New user here!

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Sat, 14 Jun 2025, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> The pstricks module isn't supported anymore and even in the past it worked
> only when you used postscript as output format.

The pstricks module created a temp file, processed it using texexec, and converted the generated ps to pdf using ps2pdf. You could automate it using filter module (by processing the figures using latex!) 

Something along the lines of: https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/462257/323

Aditya
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Re: New user here!

[John Was]

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Dear Aditya

Very clever - many thanks.  I see that there are lots of tricks in Context
that I can use once I get off the ground with it.

Best wishes

John *🇪🇺 * Слава Україні!
* 🇺🇦*


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On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 at 15:37, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Jun 2025, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
> > The pstricks module isn't supported anymore and even in the past it
> worked
> > only when you used postscript as output format.
>
> The pstricks module created a temp file, processed it using texexec, and
> converted the generated ps to pdf using ps2pdf. You could automate it using
> filter module (by processing the figures using latex!)
>
> Something along the lines of: https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/462257/323
>
> Aditya
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
> archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
> wiki     : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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___________________________________________________________________________________

[NTG-context] Re: New user here!

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 6/14/25 16:03, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> [...]
> pstricks uses postscript which isn't supported with pdftex, luatex etc.

Just as a general comment, Taco developed Escrito
(https://escrito.luatex.org/) in order to have pstricks in LuaTeX
(https://escrito.luatex.org/bt10/escritotalk.pdf#page=2).

But it clearly seems that he abandoned this project in the meantime.

Pablo
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Re: New user here!

[Hans Hagen]

On 6/14/2025 4:32 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jun 2025, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
>> The pstricks module isn't supported anymore and even in the past it worked
>> only when you used postscript as output format.
> 
> The pstricks module created a temp file, processed it using texexec, and converted the generated ps to pdf using ps2pdf. You could automate it using filter module (by processing the figures using latex!)
> 
> Something along the lines of: https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/462257/323

Actually, there is a ps interpreter (m-escrito) that taco wrote a few 
decades ago when postscript was still hip and that I redid / optimized 
one decaded ago, which is still around .. you can run that file and get 
this tiger; i suppose I could actually optimize it a bit more and even 
integrate it with pstricks but i bet no one will revert back to pstricks 
so i never bothered. We keep it around for the fun of it and those who 
like to program in postscript.

Hans

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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[NTG-context] Re: New user here!

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Sat, 14 Jun 2025, Hans Hagen wrote:

> On 6/14/2025 4:32 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> > On Sat, 14 Jun 2025, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> > 
> >> The pstricks module isn't supported anymore and even in the past it worked
> >> only when you used postscript as output format.
> > 
> > The pstricks module created a temp file, processed it using texexec, and
> > converted the generated ps to pdf using ps2pdf. You could automate it using
> > filter module (by processing the figures using latex!)
> > 
> > Something along the lines of: https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/462257/323
> 
> Actually, there is a ps interpreter (m-escrito) that taco wrote a few decades
> ago when postscript was still hip and that I redid / optimized one decaded
> ago, which is still around .. you can run that file and get this tiger; i
> suppose I could actually optimize it a bit more and even integrate it with
> pstricks but i bet no one will revert back to pstricks so i never bothered.
> We keep it around for the fun of it and those who like to program in
> postscript.

Thanks. I'll check it. 

But I agree. Postscript is a really esoteric programming language and IMO the pstricks wrapper not very elegant. So there is very little value in providing a wrapper around it. 

Aditya
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Re: New user here!

[John Was]

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Thanks - it's at least useful to know what I needn't waste my time on!

I see that I shall also have to master ConTexT's commands for tables,
though I hope they are customizable (as per my training at OUP a lifetime
ago, I like a half-point rule at the beginning and end but a quarter-point
rule between headings and the data).  Plain (Xe)TeX's \halign command works
only for that generally useless item, a table with only one column - if you
try add an extra column the setting halts and one is presented with the
false information that there is more than one instance of # between
instances of & in the setup of the table.  They lie!

I'm disappointed that I can't use \catcode = \active to do anything useful
- I do often use that, particularly to fetch a character not in the
typeface.  For example, if I want a  yogh and am obliged to use a
particular typeface (because of house style for a journal or book series)
that doesn't have the character, I would give in the file header in XeTeX:

\catcode"0292=\active

\defʒ{\yogh}

(I have \yogh defined as 'put \char"0292 here, grouped within {}, from
Junicode'.)  That allows me to keep the character  ʒ  in the input file and
leave it to TeX to carry out the appropriate instruction whenever it
encounters it.

This is prohibited in ConTexT, I find, but I'll have to learn a new way of
achieving the same thing.

But I *did* promise not to bombard the list with silly newbie questions!

Best

John *🇪🇺 * Слава Україні!
* 🇺🇦*


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On Mon, 16 Jun 2025 at 13:47, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Jun 2025, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
> > On 6/14/2025 4:32 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> > > On Sat, 14 Jun 2025, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> > >
> > >> The pstricks module isn't supported anymore and even in the past it
> worked
> > >> only when you used postscript as output format.
> > >
> > > The pstricks module created a temp file, processed it using texexec,
> and
> > > converted the generated ps to pdf using ps2pdf. You could automate it
> using
> > > filter module (by processing the figures using latex!)
> > >
> > > Something along the lines of:
> https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/462257/323
> >
> > Actually, there is a ps interpreter (m-escrito) that taco wrote a few
> decades
> > ago when postscript was still hip and that I redid / optimized one
> decaded
> > ago, which is still around .. you can run that file and get this tiger; i
> > suppose I could actually optimize it a bit more and even integrate it
> with
> > pstricks but i bet no one will revert back to pstricks so i never
> bothered.
> > We keep it around for the fun of it and those who like to program in
> > postscript.
>
> Thanks. I'll check it.
>
> But I agree. Postscript is a really esoteric programming language and IMO
> the pstricks wrapper not very elegant. So there is very little value in
> providing a wrapper around it.
>
> Aditya
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
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>
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>

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Re: New user here!

[Taco Hoekwater]

> On 16 Jun 2025, at 15:06, John Was <johnoxuk@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks - it's at least useful to know what I needn't waste my time on!
> 
> I see that I shall also have to master ConTexT's commands for tables, though I hope they are customizable (as per my training at OUP a lifetime ago, I like a half-point rule at the beginning and end but a quarter-point rule between headings and the data).  Plain (Xe)TeX's \halign command works only for that generally useless item, a table with only one column - if you try add an extra column the setting halts and one is presented with the false information that there is more than one instance of # between instances of & in the setup of the table.  They lie!

This should help:

https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Tables/Natural_tables_with_TABLE#Rules

> I'm disappointed that I can't use \catcode = \active to do anything useful - I do often use that, particularly to fetch a character not in the typeface.  For example, if I want a  yogh and am obliged to use a particular typeface (because of house style for a journal or book series) that doesn't have the character, I would give in the file header in XeTeX:
> 
> \catcode"0292=\active
> \defʒ{\yogh}
> 
> (I have \yogh defined as 'put \char"0292 here, grouped within {}, from Junicode'.)  That allows me to keep the character  ʒ  in the input file and leave it to TeX to carry out the appropriate instruction whenever it encounters it.
> 
> This is prohibited in ConTexT, I find, but I'll have to learn a new way of achieving the same thing.

\yogh is not predefined in ConTeXt. The \catcode change itself is fine, but you will have to come up with a definition for \yogh. Something like

  \def\yogh{{\switchtobodyfont[dejavu]\char"0292 }}


Best wishes,
Taco


— 
Taco Hoekwater              E: taco@bittext.nl
genderfluid (all pronouns)


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Re: New user here!

[John Was]

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Thanks Taco.  I'm sure I'll get the hang of the new tabular commands
eventually - though reproducing the example on pp. 274-5 of the Not so
Short Introduction doesn't quite work (the second column is shifted a line
down from the first column - but I guess there's something I should have
set up initially to get it to work).

It's not the definition of \yogh that would cause me any difficulty, but
the fact that I can't say:

\defʒ

This works in plain (Xe)TeX after I've reassigned the \catcode of
\char"0292 to \active, but ConTexT grumbles that I must have a backslash
after \def, and when I try that the compilation still fails. No matter -
I'll figure it out eventually!

Best wishes

John  *🇪🇺 * Слава Україні!
* 🇺🇦*


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On Mon, 16 Jun 2025 at 14:54, Taco Hoekwater <taco@bittext.nl> wrote:

>
>
> > On 16 Jun 2025, at 15:06, John Was <johnoxuk@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks - it's at least useful to know what I needn't waste my time on!
> >
> > I see that I shall also have to master ConTexT's commands for tables,
> though I hope they are customizable (as per my training at OUP a lifetime
> ago, I like a half-point rule at the beginning and end but a quarter-point
> rule between headings and the data).  Plain (Xe)TeX's \halign command works
> only for that generally useless item, a table with only one column - if you
> try add an extra column the setting halts and one is presented with the
> false information that there is more than one instance of # between
> instances of & in the setup of the table.  They lie!
>
> This should help:
>
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Tables/Natural_tables_with_TABLE#Rules
>
> > I'm disappointed that I can't use \catcode = \active to do anything
> useful - I do often use that, particularly to fetch a character not in the
> typeface.  For example, if I want a  yogh and am obliged to use a
> particular typeface (because of house style for a journal or book series)
> that doesn't have the character, I would give in the file header in XeTeX:
> >
> > \catcode"0292=\active
> > \defʒ{\yogh}
> >
> > (I have \yogh defined as 'put \char"0292 here, grouped within {}, from
> Junicode'.)  That allows me to keep the character  ʒ  in the input file and
> leave it to TeX to carry out the appropriate instruction whenever it
> encounters it.
> >
> > This is prohibited in ConTexT, I find, but I'll have to learn a new way
> of achieving the same thing.
>
> \yogh is not predefined in ConTeXt. The \catcode change itself is fine,
> but you will have to come up with a definition for \yogh. Something like
>
>   \def\yogh{{\switchtobodyfont[dejavu]\char"0292 }}
>
>
> Best wishes,
> Taco
>
>
> —
> Taco Hoekwater              E: taco@bittext.nl
> genderfluid (all pronouns)
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
> archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
> wiki     : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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Re: New user here!

[luigi scarso]

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On Mon, 16 Jun 2025 at 17:44, John Was <johnoxuk@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Taco.  I'm sure I'll get the hang of the new tabular commands
> eventually - though reproducing the example on pp. 274-5 of the Not so
> Short Introduction doesn't quite work (the second column is shifted a line
> down from the first column - but I guess there's something I should have
> set up initially to get it to work).
>
> It's not the definition of \yogh that would cause me any difficulty, but
> the fact that I can't say:
>
> \defʒ
>
>
\def\MyHello{Hello!}
\def\defʒ{\MyHello}
\starttext
\defʒ
\stoptext

this works with mkiv (it always worked, as far as I can remember )

 --
luigi

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Re: New user here!

[John Was]

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Hello Taco

That's very interesting - slightly different from XeTeX (\def\def instead
of \def, for example), but I think I'll be able to work things out from
there.  Many thanks.

Best wishes

John  *🇪🇺 * Слава Україні!
* 🇺🇦*


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On Mon, 16 Jun 2025 at 16:58, luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2025 at 17:44, John Was <johnoxuk@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Taco.  I'm sure I'll get the hang of the new tabular commands
>> eventually - though reproducing the example on pp. 274-5 of the Not so
>> Short Introduction doesn't quite work (the second column is shifted a line
>> down from the first column - but I guess there's something I should have
>> set up initially to get it to work).
>>
>> It's not the definition of \yogh that would cause me any difficulty, but
>> the fact that I can't say:
>>
>> \defʒ
>>
>>
> \def\MyHello{Hello!}
> \def\defʒ{\MyHello}
> \starttext
> \defʒ
> \stoptext
>
> this works with mkiv (it always worked, as far as I can remember )
>
>  --
> luigi
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
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>
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>

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Re: New user here!

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 16.06.2025 um 15:06 schrieb John Was:
> Thanks - it's at least useful to know what I needn't waste my time on!
> 
> I see that I shall also have to master ConTexT's commands for tables, 
> though I hope they are customizable (as per my training at OUP a 
> lifetime ago, I like a half-point rule at the beginning and end but a 
> quarter-point rule between headings and the data).  Plain (Xe)TeX's 
> \halign command works only for that generally useless item, a table with 
> only one column - if you try add an extra column the setting halts and 
> one is presented with the false information that there is more than one 
> instance of # between instances of & in the setup of the table.  They lie!
> 
> I'm disappointed that I can't use \catcode = \active to do anything 
> useful - I do often use that, particularly to fetch a character not in 
> the typeface.  For example, if I want a  yogh and am obliged to use a 
> particular typeface (because of house style for a journal or book 
> series) that doesn't have the character, I would give in the file header 
> in XeTeX:
> 
> \catcode"0292=\active
> 
> \defʒ{\yogh}
> 
> 
> (I have \yogh defined as 'put \char"0292 here, grouped within {}, from 
> Junicode'.)  That allows me to keep the character ʒ  in the input file 
> and leave it to TeX to carry out the appropriate instruction whenever it 
> encounters it.
> 
> This is prohibited in ConTexT, I find, but I'll have to learn a new way 
> of achieving the same thing.

The best solution is use a font which contains all characters needed for 
the document but it's possible to set fonts which are used as fallback 
for characters which are missing in the main font.

%%%% begin example
\definefallbackfamily [John] [serif] [Stix Two Text] [range=0x0292]

\definefontfamily [John] [serif] [Latin Modern Roman]

\starttext

\setupbodyfont [modern]

Latin Small Letter Ezh: ʒ

\setupbodyfont [John]

Latin Small Letter Ezh: ʒ

\stoptext
%%%% end example

> But I /did/ promise not to bombard the list with silly newbie questions!

There is nothing wrong with asking question but you should start a new 
threat for each problem where you describe what you're trying to 
achieve. Forcing ConTeXt to work as a plain TeX machine is the wrong way 
because there are better solutions.

Wolfgang

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